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8.4L v10 viper engine swap?

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Old Dec 27, 2012 | 12:17 AM
  #61  
5-90's Avatar
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Year: 1988
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"Cheap" ain't gonna happen.

"Easy" ain't gonna happen.

But, I have been kicking this sort of thing around myself, just as a thought exercise. You are assisted by the fact that the V10 (both the Ram and Viper versions) are based off of the LA360 - mostly the same front end parts, the same bellhousing pattern, and that sort of thing.

I would expect to need to reinforce the engine mounting so you don't twist up or crack the front end subframe members &/or welds. The mount may need to be adapted as well.

Since it's technically only "five cylinders long" (an argument could be made for five and a half,) and the bores are roughly comparable, the length shouldn't be a big issue. However, expect to have to modify the firewall anyhow - the V-block is going to be wider than the AMC I6, and you'll probably need extra clearance at the rear.

Transmission choice will be fairly limited - 47/48RE for automatic (four-speed version of the A727, electronic controls) or the NV4500/NV5600 for manuals (both are heavy, and will require modification of the mounting. The NV4500 is a five-speed, the NV5600 is a six-speed.) That, or maybe looking into "vintage" vehicles to find a solid gearbox with the LA-block pattern (but that will probably be a three-speed or a direct-drive four-speed. An overdrive is useful.)

Not having the electronic transmission controls may be helpful, but I think that the transmission controls for the 47RE/48RE should be integrated into the Ram SMEC/SBEC. However, the transmission coding may need to be reprogrammed - the XJ is about 2,000# lighter, and the dynamics will be different.

If you want to skip the electronic transplant, build yourself a MegaSquirt setup for ten cylinders (it should run anything up to either 12 or 16 cylinders, I don't recall what the upper limit is. But, it's scalable) and that will also allow easier reprogramming. Between that and a manual transmission, you can exert far more control over the vehicle than you would otherwise. You can try to get an A727/37RH/38RH for a transmission, but that will be a three-speed - and you will lose economy! However, the A727 borders on legendary in terms of strength.)

Yeah, I may not have drawn anything or written anything down yet, but I've been kicking this around for a bit...
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Old Dec 27, 2012 | 12:24 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by 5-90
"Cheap" ain't gonna happen.

"Easy" ain't gonna happen.

But, I have been kicking this sort of thing around myself, just as a thought exercise. You are assisted by the fact that the V10 (both the Ram and Viper versions) are based off of the LA360 - mostly the same front end parts, the same bellhousing pattern, and that sort of thing.

I would expect to need to reinforce the engine mounting so you don't twist up or crack the front end subframe members &/or welds. The mount may need to be adapted as well.

Since it's technically only "five cylinders long" (an argument could be made for five and a half,) and the bores are roughly comparable, the length shouldn't be a big issue. However, expect to have to modify the firewall anyhow - the V-block is going to be wider than the AMC I6, and you'll probably need extra clearance at the rear.

Transmission choice will be fairly limited - 47/48RE for automatic (four-speed version of the A727, electronic controls) or the NV4500/NV5600 for manuals (both are heavy, and will require modification of the mounting. The NV4500 is a five-speed, the NV5600 is a six-speed.) That, or maybe looking into "vintage" vehicles to find a solid gearbox with the LA-block pattern (but that will probably be a three-speed or a direct-drive four-speed. An overdrive is useful.)

Not having the electronic transmission controls may be helpful, but I think that the transmission controls for the 47RE/48RE should be integrated into the Ram SMEC/SBEC. However, the transmission coding may need to be reprogrammed - the XJ is about 2,000# lighter, and the dynamics will be different.

If you want to skip the electronic transplant, build yourself a MegaSquirt setup for ten cylinders (it should run anything up to either 12 or 16 cylinders, I don't recall what the upper limit is. But, it's scalable) and that will also allow easier reprogramming. Between that and a manual transmission, you can exert far more control over the vehicle than you would otherwise. You can try to get an A727/37RH/38RH for a transmission, but that will be a three-speed - and you will lose economy! However, the A727 borders on legendary in terms of strength.)

Yeah, I may not have drawn anything or written anything down yet, but I've been kicking this around for a bit...
Just a little bit? Lol
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Old Mar 4, 2013 | 12:18 PM
  #63  
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I know this is an old thread but I stumbled upon it today as I am contemplating the same thing.
I just picked up a 94 ram with the 8.0 v10 and want to squeeze it into an xj.
I will weld frame stiffeners and new cross members on. I think 3/16" steel all around might make it stronger than the stock dodge frame. I have a hp kingpin 60 front and sterling 10.25 rear, should handle the 450lbs of torque with ease. Just need a trans and thinking of going with an nv5600 if I can find one. Ill be starting this project within the month and will post pics for all who are interested
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Old Mar 4, 2013 | 12:42 PM
  #64  
cleenrob's Avatar
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From: San Antonio, TX
Year: 1996
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Originally Posted by DirtyBomb
I know this is an old thread but I stumbled upon it today as I am contemplating the same thing.
I just picked up a 94 ram with the 8.0 v10 and want to squeeze it into an xj.
I will weld frame stiffeners and new cross members on. I think 3/16" steel all around might make it stronger than the stock dodge frame. I have a hp kingpin 60 front and sterling 10.25 rear, should handle the 450lbs of torque with ease. Just need a trans and thinking of going with an nv5600 if I can find one. Ill be starting this project within the month and will post pics for all who are interested
make a build thread
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Old Mar 4, 2013 | 12:45 PM
  #65  
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From: Southern Oregon
Year: 1990
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Chop the back of your XJ and put the engine back there make it a mid. Boom plenty of room to work with. You can put rads up front for cooling and call it a day.
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Old Mar 4, 2013 | 12:49 PM
  #66  
5-90's Avatar
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Originally Posted by noXaddtheM
Just a little bit? Lol
Yeah, just a little. Haven't gotten into doing any drawings or anything - still in the "thought experiment" stage.

Probably about as difficult as cramming a Gen-II V8-426 Hemi in there, overall.
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Old Mar 4, 2013 | 12:50 PM
  #67  
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I thought about that, but even if I put the motor where the back seats are, wont.that monster trans and t case be too long for the rear axle? Besides, I do want to keep two buckets in the back, in case I do take passengers
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Old Mar 4, 2013 | 01:12 PM
  #68  
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You could do this

8.4L v10 viper engine swap?-image-2680660238.jpg

And put the engine in the bed.
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Old Mar 4, 2013 | 01:27 PM
  #69  
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Omg ive dreamt of a 4 door manche all my life. NOT. I have a short bed mj, I would never molest it like that
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Old Mar 4, 2013 | 04:54 PM
  #70  
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From: Kansas City, MO
Year: 1996
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58';Q441thhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Old Mar 4, 2013 | 05:10 PM
  #71  
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Since we're kinda on this topic, how would one mid mount a motor this size?
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Old Mar 4, 2013 | 05:20 PM
  #72  
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be cheaper to put a jeep body on a ram frame.friend of mine put a morris minor on a bronco frame years ago and it's still around.
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Old Mar 4, 2013 | 06:12 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by PNWjeeper
You could do this

Attachment 178849

And put the engine in the bed.
haha I saw that ad on craigslist a while back when I was looking to buy a jeep.
Atleast one of the better built frankenstein jeeps it appears atleast.
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Old Mar 4, 2013 | 06:23 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by DirtyBomb
Omg ive dreamt of a 4 door manche all my life. NOT. I have a short bed mj, I would never molest it like that
Agreed, but it would give you space to work and still have seating for 4 or 5 people.
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Old Mar 4, 2013 | 08:33 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by DirtyBomb
Since we're kinda on this topic, how would one mid mount a motor this size?
Turn it around, put a reverse box probably between the transmission output and transfer case input, plumb the radiator to the front?

If you tried to mid-mount it oriented normally, you wouldn't have any articulation at all on the driveshaft to the rear axle - unless you put the engine in your hip pocket (and even then, you'll still lose.)

Or, use a custom-designed & -built transmission/transfer case assembly?

Either way, it's a pain if you want to keep 4WD. Otherwise, put a "knuckle" between the transmission output and axle pinion, and make sure you run on smooth, FLAT roadways (because you're not going to have any articulation with that setup - it's the same way that Top Fuel dragsters are set up...)
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