3" Lift Components
05-07-2012, 10:05 AM
#16
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Year: 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 H.O. 180K miles
X2 on not getting an alignment after, the only thing that will change is caster which isn't a big deal and can be fixed at home with 1/4 inch shims
05-07-2012, 12:36 PM
#18
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Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
I just did a Rough Country 3" kit.
Yes, get an adjustable track bar. You might not NEED it, but if you truly want to be sure you've got your alignment zeroed in, get one. Besides, it can be used for bigger lifts in the future.
Yes, get a SYE or a T-Case drop. I got bad vibrations until I dropped my T-case 1 inch. Look up a tutorial on how to do a T-Case drop, extracting the studs is NOT as easy as people make it sound. Required a lot of heating and patience to get mine out.
Yes, get an alignment. I had mine done at the dealership I work at, Toe In was off enough to cause handling issues and tire wear. I could also feel the front tires fighting against each other as I drove it.
No, you don't need longer front brake lines.
No, you don't need longer front or rear sway bar links.
Yes, you MIGHT want longer rear brake lines, if you plan on flexing it.
Yes, you WILL want to get new hardware for everything. You might be able to reuse the Leaf Spring eye bolts, but honestly, it's worth the money to get new ones. You might even break off the lower front shock bolts, so get some to replace those, too. And DEFINITELY the upper rear shock bolts. Those are almost guaranteed to break.
No, you don't NEED longer lower control arms, though it wouldn't hurt. The front axle will tilt forward slightly with a lift kit, which changes caster angle, which COULD cause death wobble at certain speeds.
Keep in mind that a lot of people on this forum are OK with half-assing things. I don't mean to insult anyone, but it's true. If you want a truly road worthy rig, you need to do things the right way and don't listen to anyone who tells you "Bah you don't need _______ I drive mine with out _______ all the time". What they're not telling you is that their Jeeps drive like crap, but that they've just learned to live with it.
My XJ gets slight DW at 50mph. Not bad DW, and it goes away almost immediately. Drives VERY nice on the highway. Drives VERY nice in the city. Couldn't be happier with it's on-road manners.
Yes, get an adjustable track bar. You might not NEED it, but if you truly want to be sure you've got your alignment zeroed in, get one. Besides, it can be used for bigger lifts in the future.
Yes, get a SYE or a T-Case drop. I got bad vibrations until I dropped my T-case 1 inch. Look up a tutorial on how to do a T-Case drop, extracting the studs is NOT as easy as people make it sound. Required a lot of heating and patience to get mine out.
Yes, get an alignment. I had mine done at the dealership I work at, Toe In was off enough to cause handling issues and tire wear. I could also feel the front tires fighting against each other as I drove it.
No, you don't need longer front brake lines.
No, you don't need longer front or rear sway bar links.
Yes, you MIGHT want longer rear brake lines, if you plan on flexing it.
Yes, you WILL want to get new hardware for everything. You might be able to reuse the Leaf Spring eye bolts, but honestly, it's worth the money to get new ones. You might even break off the lower front shock bolts, so get some to replace those, too. And DEFINITELY the upper rear shock bolts. Those are almost guaranteed to break.
No, you don't NEED longer lower control arms, though it wouldn't hurt. The front axle will tilt forward slightly with a lift kit, which changes caster angle, which COULD cause death wobble at certain speeds.
Keep in mind that a lot of people on this forum are OK with half-assing things. I don't mean to insult anyone, but it's true. If you want a truly road worthy rig, you need to do things the right way and don't listen to anyone who tells you "Bah you don't need _______ I drive mine with out _______ all the time". What they're not telling you is that their Jeeps drive like crap, but that they've just learned to live with it.
My XJ gets slight DW at 50mph. Not bad DW, and it goes away almost immediately. Drives VERY nice on the highway. Drives VERY nice in the city. Couldn't be happier with it's on-road manners.
05-07-2012, 01:03 PM
#19
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Year: 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: I6 4.0 L
Originally Posted by 77olds
I just did a Rough Country 3" kit.
Yes, get an adjustable track bar. You might not NEED it, but if you truly want to be sure you've got your alignment zeroed in, get one. Besides, it can be used for bigger lifts in the future.
Yes, get a SYE or a T-Case drop. I got bad vibrations until I dropped my T-case 1 inch. Look up a tutorial on how to do a T-Case drop, extracting the studs is NOT as easy as people make it sound. Required a lot of heating and patience to get mine out.
Yes, get an alignment. I had mine done at the dealership I work at, Toe In was off enough to cause handling issues and tire wear. I could also feel the front tires fighting against each other as I drove it.
No, you don't need longer front brake lines.
No, you don't need longer front or rear sway bar links.
Yes, you MIGHT want longer rear brake lines, if you plan on flexing it.
Yes, you WILL want to get new hardware for everything. You might be able to reuse the Leaf Spring eye bolts, but honestly, it's worth the money to get new ones. You might even break off the lower front shock bolts, so get some to replace those, too. And DEFINITELY the upper rear shock bolts. Those are almost guaranteed to break.
No, you don't NEED longer lower control arms, though it wouldn't hurt. The front axle will tilt forward slightly with a lift kit, which changes caster angle, which COULD cause death wobble at certain speeds.
Keep in mind that a lot of people on this forum are OK with half-assing things. I don't mean to insult anyone, but it's true. If you want a truly road worthy rig, you need to do things the right way and don't listen to anyone who tells you "Bah you don't need _______ I drive mine with out _______ all the time". What they're not telling you is that their Jeeps drive like crap, but that they've just learned to live with it.
My XJ gets slight DW at 50mph. Not bad DW, and it goes away almost immediately. Drives VERY nice on the highway. Drives VERY nice in the city. Couldn't be happier with it's on-road manners.
Yes, get an adjustable track bar. You might not NEED it, but if you truly want to be sure you've got your alignment zeroed in, get one. Besides, it can be used for bigger lifts in the future.
Yes, get a SYE or a T-Case drop. I got bad vibrations until I dropped my T-case 1 inch. Look up a tutorial on how to do a T-Case drop, extracting the studs is NOT as easy as people make it sound. Required a lot of heating and patience to get mine out.
Yes, get an alignment. I had mine done at the dealership I work at, Toe In was off enough to cause handling issues and tire wear. I could also feel the front tires fighting against each other as I drove it.
No, you don't need longer front brake lines.
No, you don't need longer front or rear sway bar links.
Yes, you MIGHT want longer rear brake lines, if you plan on flexing it.
Yes, you WILL want to get new hardware for everything. You might be able to reuse the Leaf Spring eye bolts, but honestly, it's worth the money to get new ones. You might even break off the lower front shock bolts, so get some to replace those, too. And DEFINITELY the upper rear shock bolts. Those are almost guaranteed to break.
No, you don't NEED longer lower control arms, though it wouldn't hurt. The front axle will tilt forward slightly with a lift kit, which changes caster angle, which COULD cause death wobble at certain speeds.
Keep in mind that a lot of people on this forum are OK with half-assing things. I don't mean to insult anyone, but it's true. If you want a truly road worthy rig, you need to do things the right way and don't listen to anyone who tells you "Bah you don't need _______ I drive mine with out _______ all the time". What they're not telling you is that their Jeeps drive like crap, but that they've just learned to live with it.
My XJ gets slight DW at 50mph. Not bad DW, and it goes away almost immediately. Drives VERY nice on the highway. Drives VERY nice in the city. Couldn't be happier with it's on-road manners.
05-07-2012, 01:31 PM
#20
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Year: 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 H.O. 180K miles
1/4 inch shims for the lower control arms bring the front pinion angle/caster back to stock specs. Its like having longer control arms, not really neccessary for 3" but it helps with bumpsteer
05-07-2012, 02:56 PM
#21
Senior Member
OK, truth here! If you change the ride height on an MJ, XJ, ZJ,TJ and others with the same steering design, you MUST do a toe alignment as it will be toed in now and a drag link adjustment to center the steering wheel. The reason being, these all have a split Y style steering linkage, which means as the suspension height changes(either big bumps or lifting) the toe alignment changes. It's a stupid design and is usually swapped out on bigger lift rigs. So what im saying is that when you lift it 3", you will now be toed in and have to adjust it. Easy to do with a torch and a tape measure. As far as the trac bar, every Jeep is different. I have 3" on mine and my axle is still centered, go figure. Your's may be off toward the driver side a tad. This is BEST fixed with a good adjustable trac bar although cheesy brackets are available too. Transfer case drop? Maybe, I notice no vibes from mine with 3" and have opted not to install spacers. Longer shocks are a must as well as either longer brake hoses or relocation brackets. You can get away with the stock front sway bar links, for awile, eventually the stress and angle will cause them to fail.
PS. Have fun with the rear shocks, 9 times out of 10 the bolts break off in the body and you have to drill/tap them out.
PS. Have fun with the rear shocks, 9 times out of 10 the bolts break off in the body and you have to drill/tap them out.
Last edited by letsgomuddin; 05-07-2012 at 02:58 PM.
05-07-2012, 03:27 PM
#22
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Year: 1990
Model: Comanche
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Lol... There are no shims for the front control arms to correct angles man... This is not a leaf spring front end like a yj...
And all yall are cracking me up about the alignment... Waste your money I dont care... It does nothing... Should try installing your own lifts for a change... Show me where u adjust your control arms on non-adjustable arms (hints why people want adjustable arms over non) show me on the knuckles where adjustments can be made during a alignment... Unless u have aftermarket balljoints...
This is not IFS people... If it "felt better after" or "didnt pull anymore" thats because yours was out before the lift and tires... Larger tires your GOING to feel more... But what do I know... Just a ex nissan mechanic and jet engine mechanic... I gotta be a DA... Just do a few simple adjustments to the steering... Anyone can do it...
And all yall are cracking me up about the alignment... Waste your money I dont care... It does nothing... Should try installing your own lifts for a change... Show me where u adjust your control arms on non-adjustable arms (hints why people want adjustable arms over non) show me on the knuckles where adjustments can be made during a alignment... Unless u have aftermarket balljoints...
This is not IFS people... If it "felt better after" or "didnt pull anymore" thats because yours was out before the lift and tires... Larger tires your GOING to feel more... But what do I know... Just a ex nissan mechanic and jet engine mechanic... I gotta be a DA... Just do a few simple adjustments to the steering... Anyone can do it...
Last edited by huntingman2706217; 05-07-2012 at 03:30 PM.
05-07-2012, 03:41 PM
#23
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Year: 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L I6
I've already swapped out my rear leafs as my OEM ones were frowning. All shocks were replaced as well. No broken bolts. Some PB Blaster and an impact wrench was enough for me. So I know the bolts are fine.
05-07-2012, 03:45 PM
#24
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Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
And all yall are cracking me up about the alignment... Waste your money I dont care... It does nothing... Should try installing your own lifts for a change... Show me where u adjust your control arms on non-adjustable arms (hints why people want adjustable arms over non) show me on the knuckles where adjustments can be made during a alignment... Unless u have aftermarket balljoints...
This is not IFS people... If it "felt better after" or "didnt pull anymore" thats because yours was out before the lift and tires... Larger tires your GOING to feel more... But what do I know... Just a ex nissan mechanic and jet engine mechanic... I gotta be a DA... Just do a few simple adjustments to the steering... Anyone can do it...
This is not IFS people... If it "felt better after" or "didnt pull anymore" thats because yours was out before the lift and tires... Larger tires your GOING to feel more... But what do I know... Just a ex nissan mechanic and jet engine mechanic... I gotta be a DA... Just do a few simple adjustments to the steering... Anyone can do it...
From the factory, most cars toe in ever so slightly, so that when you're driving it, the force of the road will toe it out to where it needs to be to not eat up your tires.
You CAN set toe. Toe IS affected by a lift. Toe is adjusted by the tie-rod.
Example:
Caster:
When the suspension is stock, the Caster angle is set to a specific degree. Toe is ALSO set to a specific degree. When you change the Caster angle (which changes when you install a lift without proper length control arms), it changes the relation angle of the axle to the ground, which therefore changes the Toe as well.
If you really don't think adjusting toe matters when lifting your Jeep, maybe you've got some really crappy tie-rod ends.
Page with useful info:
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html
As far as "adjusting" the front control arms, you CAN, but the adjustment is intended for aligning the front axle.
Look at the rear of the lower control arm mount. See the two bolts in the back? Undo those nuts. Now, loosen the large bolt that hold the control arm in. Did you notice that the hole for that large bolt is slotted, as if it were designed to move forward or backward? That whole assembly will slide forward in the mount. You can put a spacer behind it and retighten the two nuts on the back to adjust your pinion/caster angle back to near stock.
I don't know this huntingman guy, but apparently he's been here a while, so I'll refrain from straight up calling him out... but i DO have to question how someone with such an awesome rig like the one in his avatar WOULDN'T know this simple information.
Last edited by 77olds; 05-07-2012 at 03:51 PM.
05-07-2012, 03:56 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by 77olds
I just want to point out to everyone that this guy clearly doesn't know what he's talking about, and his post should be disregarded completely.
You CAN set toe. Toe IS affected by a lift. Toe is adjusted by the tie-rod.
Example:
Caster:
When the suspension is stock, the Caster angle is set to a specific degree. Toe is ALSO set to a specific degree. When you change the Caster angle (which changes when you install a lift without proper length control arms), it changes the relation angle of the axle to the ground, which therefore changes the Toe as well.
If you really don't think adjusting toe matters when lifting your Jeep, maybe you've got some really crappy tie-rod ends.
Page with useful info:
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html
Last edited by huntingman2706217; 05-07-2012 at 04:04 PM.
05-07-2012, 04:04 PM
#26
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Huntingman... please read this http://www.go.jeep-xj.info/HowtoAlignment.htm
Also, if you want your drag link to be the correct length just loosen it before you jack it up, dont touch the steering wheel and make sure the wheels dont move. When the jeep is sitting at its new ride height tighten the drag link back up, It should be a little longer now. If the Toe changes with caster, wouldnt correcting the caster with a control arm shim (which does exist...) set the alignment back to normal?
Also, if you want your drag link to be the correct length just loosen it before you jack it up, dont touch the steering wheel and make sure the wheels dont move. When the jeep is sitting at its new ride height tighten the drag link back up, It should be a little longer now. If the Toe changes with caster, wouldnt correcting the caster with a control arm shim (which does exist...) set the alignment back to normal?
Last edited by Bossokee; 05-07-2012 at 04:09 PM.
05-07-2012, 04:12 PM
#27
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Year: 1990
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So I went outside and pulled a nut off my MJ's control arm... And magic... I see what your talking about... Big enough to admit that I was wrong on having that adjustment... The xj in my avatar has no lower mounts and were cut off long ago...ive always used adjustable arms personally so I never even looked at this i guess lol... that being said I would probly do an aligment... However the one xj I did this with (non adjustables) and never changed it.... Never had a problem either though... so I wouldnt say you need to trailer it to a shop... Lol...
Hot dang ya learn something new everyday... Lesson of the day... Pay attention to what you cut off... May save ya from looking like a *** one day... Lol...
Oh and Im a mod... Hints the high post count from other idiots like me... Lol
Hot dang ya learn something new everyday... Lesson of the day... Pay attention to what you cut off... May save ya from looking like a *** one day... Lol...
Oh and Im a mod... Hints the high post count from other idiots like me... Lol
05-07-2012, 04:15 PM
#29
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So I went outside and pulled a nut off my MJ's control arm... And magic... I see what your talking about... Big enough to admit that I was wrong on having that adjustment... The xj in my avatar has no lower mounts and were cut off long ago...ive always used adjustable arms personally so I never even looked at this i guess lol... that being said I would probly do an aligment... However the one xj I did this with (non adjustables) and never changed it.... Never had a problem either though... so I wouldnt say you need to trailer it to a shop... Lol...
Hot dang ya learn something new everyday... Lesson of the day... Pay attention to what you cut off... May save ya from looking like a *** one day... Lol...
Oh and Im a mod... Hints the high post count from other idiots like me... Lol
Hot dang ya learn something new everyday... Lesson of the day... Pay attention to what you cut off... May save ya from looking like a *** one day... Lol...
Oh and Im a mod... Hints the high post count from other idiots like me... Lol
But yes, you do learn something new every day. I learn new things constantly.
05-07-2012, 04:16 PM
#30
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Year: 1990
Model: Comanche
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And I got shims... Two at least on the one side... They sit so when the bolt slides in that slot the weight rests on the shims instead of the tightness of the bolt... I never noticed the slit cause its two pieces... Always looks like one single hole unless u look hard...