Solo Winter Camping (Sleeping in XJ)
02-19-2018, 01:59 PM
#1
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Solo Winter Camping (Sleeping in XJ)
I took the XJ winter camping this weekend in pretty miserable weather. I had decided a few weeks ago that I would plan around using the vehicle to sleep. Though without emptying it out in advance and testing for myself, It was difficult to know if I would fit well.
TLDR; Will sleep a solo camper of 5'8" or less sleeping straight behind the passenger seat stretched to the rear hatch. Will sleep a solo camper of 6'2" or less sleeping diagonal with head poked between passenger seat back and side and feet near the rear hatch near the rear of the spare tire.
The following information is true for a 96 or older. With a stock doughnut spare installed internally. The 97+ floor plan might be slightly different, but it will be close.
I removed the rear seat cushion (lower) and put the rear seat back down. I moved the passenger seat full forward, and tilted full forward. I attempted to sleep straight back, with my head right behind the passenger seat and my feet near the rear hatch. With some soft items stuffed in the rear passenger foot well and act as a pillow.
This space was good for about 5'8" but not much more. Because the conditions were so bad, I did it anyway, and was not able to reconfigure without pulling things out into the snow. So I toughed it out, and just slept without stretching out.
When I unpacked everything today I had the opportunity to measure and rethink the arrangement. Using the same setup with the seats, if a person was to sleep diagonally with head near passenger seat back (and right up against the side of the vehicle) and feet near the driver side rear hatch area a 6'2" person could sleep fully stretched out. This is the way I will plan for next time, and make sure I have my gear configure to allow for this without much fuss.
My buddy used a tent, because he was using a loner vehicle while his rig is having the transmission replaced.
Sleeping in the vehicle was far superior to a tent in harsh conditions. Quiet, completely wind proof, impervious to snow buildup, and generally held the inside temperature much better.
Plus there is no having to move gear in and out of the vehicle and ten in bad conditions, so everything stays dry. Packing up is a breeze, because most everything is already in the vehicle.
If you use a small heater such a a mr. heater, (I have the smallest one), a vehicle holds that heat much better than a tent of course, and I was able to use my fishing rod racks (up near the roof, inside) as a drying rack for my pant legs, socks, etc. In the morning they were completely dry.
And you get the added security of being in a locked vehicle, if that is of concern.
In the morning I was able to jet-stove up some coffee and get back into my cold weather gear in relative warmth, with everything dry. The night before I crawled into the driver seat and removed my boots and wet pants in the driver seat so that I could leave those away from the sleeping area. Then simply crawled over the center console into the sleeping area.
I'm adding this post in case anybody is curious in the future, and needs a little information. Just trying to add to the internet knowledge.
TLDR; Will sleep a solo camper of 5'8" or less sleeping straight behind the passenger seat stretched to the rear hatch. Will sleep a solo camper of 6'2" or less sleeping diagonal with head poked between passenger seat back and side and feet near the rear hatch near the rear of the spare tire.
The following information is true for a 96 or older. With a stock doughnut spare installed internally. The 97+ floor plan might be slightly different, but it will be close.
I removed the rear seat cushion (lower) and put the rear seat back down. I moved the passenger seat full forward, and tilted full forward. I attempted to sleep straight back, with my head right behind the passenger seat and my feet near the rear hatch. With some soft items stuffed in the rear passenger foot well and act as a pillow.
This space was good for about 5'8" but not much more. Because the conditions were so bad, I did it anyway, and was not able to reconfigure without pulling things out into the snow. So I toughed it out, and just slept without stretching out.
When I unpacked everything today I had the opportunity to measure and rethink the arrangement. Using the same setup with the seats, if a person was to sleep diagonally with head near passenger seat back (and right up against the side of the vehicle) and feet near the driver side rear hatch area a 6'2" person could sleep fully stretched out. This is the way I will plan for next time, and make sure I have my gear configure to allow for this without much fuss.
My buddy used a tent, because he was using a loner vehicle while his rig is having the transmission replaced.
Sleeping in the vehicle was far superior to a tent in harsh conditions. Quiet, completely wind proof, impervious to snow buildup, and generally held the inside temperature much better.
Plus there is no having to move gear in and out of the vehicle and ten in bad conditions, so everything stays dry. Packing up is a breeze, because most everything is already in the vehicle.
If you use a small heater such a a mr. heater, (I have the smallest one), a vehicle holds that heat much better than a tent of course, and I was able to use my fishing rod racks (up near the roof, inside) as a drying rack for my pant legs, socks, etc. In the morning they were completely dry.
And you get the added security of being in a locked vehicle, if that is of concern.
In the morning I was able to jet-stove up some coffee and get back into my cold weather gear in relative warmth, with everything dry. The night before I crawled into the driver seat and removed my boots and wet pants in the driver seat so that I could leave those away from the sleeping area. Then simply crawled over the center console into the sleeping area.
I'm adding this post in case anybody is curious in the future, and needs a little information. Just trying to add to the internet knowledge.
02-19-2018, 02:09 PM
#2
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02-19-2018, 06:25 PM
#4
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I have been thinking about sleeping in the back of the Jeep for winter camping. I have always used a tent in the past. Do you have a Mr. Heater Little Buddy? Did you notice any fumes or smells building up inside? Did you get condensation from your breath on the windows overnight? Thanks for the information.
02-19-2018, 08:09 PM
#5
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Long post. Sorry in advance.
Prior to this trip I bought the smallest mr. heater little buddy. The one with the burner that attaches to the top of the tank. It was just about perfect for the XJ. At first I wasn't so sure about the form factor, with the burner pointed somewhat upward, but after using I began to realize why they designed one that way. Its the only heater they make that can be placed in a crate or bucket and heat upwards. The others would be very difficult to use in a confined vehicle because the risk of getting soft material (sleeping bag, etc) next to the burner is just too great.
At first, I was worried that too much heat would rise to the headliner, not so much for fire safety, but causing problems with the headliner adhesive, but once its burner evened out it was just about perfect. The air at the top of the cabin was probably in the 70f range. Though I didn't measure it. The heat definitely collects in the top of the vehicle, but not enough to hurt anything, and you can definitely adjust it by venting the windows.
I ran the heater on and off throughout the night, with about a 3-4 hour period where I turned it off. I vented using the two passenger windows. I'm pretty sensitive to fumes, and some people can handle the fumes of burning propane better than others. I found it to be quite good compared to some other propane heaters I've been around. Also, if you are sleeping laying down, what small amount of smell there is tends to be up higher, so when I was laying down they were no issue at all.
I was able to place the heater in a milk crate that had a few supplies in it, and sat it right by the driver-side rear passenger door. While I slept on the passenger side. So it was very easy to reach without having to move around in the confined space.
The truth is, the bag I was in was good enough that I didn't need the heater at all. But since I had just bought it, and wanted to try it out I ran it a lot more than necessary. When I first settled in for the night it sure was nice to be able to sit there getting some of the gear arranged for the night in total comfort even though it was coming down (snow) heavily outside. Also, being able to turn it on in the morning was almost so nice as to be cheating. I popped the heater on, and made coffee in the vehicle, so when my buddy got out of his tent, I already had coffee ready for us before even having my outside gear back on.
By the way, for the coffee drinkers...if you have not found Starbucks Via packets yet. Umm...run..don't walk...to walmart (or wherever) and get some. You'll probably throw away all of your various space consuming coffee making gear after trying them. I did.
The Jeep does way better than a tent in terms of condensation. Having the windows cracked for the heater allows the warm moist air to escape through the top, while cold dry air is entering through a variety of other tiny areas around the body (door seals, window seals, body vents, blower fan area, etc.). The only surfaces that had moisture in the morning was the glass. It did take a few hours for the moisture on the glass to fully dry up. But the ambient air was very saturated with moisture when we left, if it had been a dryer day, about 30 minutes driving with a window open would have probably taken care of it.
All non-glass surfaces (fabric, vinyl, interior trim, carpet, etc. were bone dry). It was nice.
Prior to this trip I bought the smallest mr. heater little buddy. The one with the burner that attaches to the top of the tank. It was just about perfect for the XJ. At first I wasn't so sure about the form factor, with the burner pointed somewhat upward, but after using I began to realize why they designed one that way. Its the only heater they make that can be placed in a crate or bucket and heat upwards. The others would be very difficult to use in a confined vehicle because the risk of getting soft material (sleeping bag, etc) next to the burner is just too great.
At first, I was worried that too much heat would rise to the headliner, not so much for fire safety, but causing problems with the headliner adhesive, but once its burner evened out it was just about perfect. The air at the top of the cabin was probably in the 70f range. Though I didn't measure it. The heat definitely collects in the top of the vehicle, but not enough to hurt anything, and you can definitely adjust it by venting the windows.
I ran the heater on and off throughout the night, with about a 3-4 hour period where I turned it off. I vented using the two passenger windows. I'm pretty sensitive to fumes, and some people can handle the fumes of burning propane better than others. I found it to be quite good compared to some other propane heaters I've been around. Also, if you are sleeping laying down, what small amount of smell there is tends to be up higher, so when I was laying down they were no issue at all.
I was able to place the heater in a milk crate that had a few supplies in it, and sat it right by the driver-side rear passenger door. While I slept on the passenger side. So it was very easy to reach without having to move around in the confined space.
The truth is, the bag I was in was good enough that I didn't need the heater at all. But since I had just bought it, and wanted to try it out I ran it a lot more than necessary. When I first settled in for the night it sure was nice to be able to sit there getting some of the gear arranged for the night in total comfort even though it was coming down (snow) heavily outside. Also, being able to turn it on in the morning was almost so nice as to be cheating. I popped the heater on, and made coffee in the vehicle, so when my buddy got out of his tent, I already had coffee ready for us before even having my outside gear back on.
By the way, for the coffee drinkers...if you have not found Starbucks Via packets yet. Umm...run..don't walk...to walmart (or wherever) and get some. You'll probably throw away all of your various space consuming coffee making gear after trying them. I did.
The Jeep does way better than a tent in terms of condensation. Having the windows cracked for the heater allows the warm moist air to escape through the top, while cold dry air is entering through a variety of other tiny areas around the body (door seals, window seals, body vents, blower fan area, etc.). The only surfaces that had moisture in the morning was the glass. It did take a few hours for the moisture on the glass to fully dry up. But the ambient air was very saturated with moisture when we left, if it had been a dryer day, about 30 minutes driving with a window open would have probably taken care of it.
All non-glass surfaces (fabric, vinyl, interior trim, carpet, etc. were bone dry). It was nice.
02-19-2018, 08:23 PM
#6
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Long post. Sorry in advance.
Prior to this trip I bought the smallest mr. heater little buddy. The one with the burner that attaches to the top of the tank. It was just about perfect for the XJ. At first I wasn't so sure about the form factor, with the burner pointed somewhat upward, but after using I began to realize why they designed one that way. Its the only heater they make that can be placed in a crate or bucket and heat upwards. The others would be very difficult to use in a confined vehicle because the risk of getting soft material (sleeping bag, etc) next to the burner is just too great.
At first, I was worried that too much heat would rise to the headliner, not so much for fire safety, but causing problems with the headliner adhesive, but once its burner evened out it was just about perfect. The air at the top of the cabin was probably in the 70f range. Though I didn't measure it. The heat definitely collects in the top of the vehicle, but not enough to hurt anything, and you can definitely adjust it by venting the windows.
I ran the heater on and off throughout the night, with about a 3-4 hour period where I turned it off. I vented using the two passenger windows. I'm pretty sensitive to fumes, and some people can handle the fumes of burning propane better than others. I found it to be quite good compared to some other propane heaters I've been around. Also, if you are sleeping laying down, what small amount of smell there is tends to be up higher, so when I was laying down they were no issue at all.
I was able to place the heater in a milk crate that had a few supplies in it, and sat it right by the driver-side rear passenger door. While I slept on the passenger side. So it was very easy to reach without having to move around in the confined space.
The truth is, the bag I was in was good enough that I didn't need the heater at all. But since I had just bought it, and wanted to try it out I ran it a lot more than necessary. When I first settled in for the night it sure was nice to be able to sit there getting some of the gear arranged for the night in total comfort even though it was coming down (snow) heavily outside. Also, being able to turn it on in the morning was almost so nice as to be cheating. I popped the heater on, and made coffee in the vehicle, so when my buddy got out of his tent, I already had coffee ready for us before even having my outside gear back on.
By the way, for the coffee drinkers...if you have not found Starbucks Via packets yet. Umm...run..don't walk...to walmart (or wherever) and get some. You'll probably throw away all of your various space consuming coffee making gear after trying them. I did.
The Jeep does way better than a tent in terms of condensation. Having the windows cracked for the heater allows the warm moist air to escape through the top, while cold dry air is entering through a variety of other tiny areas around the body (door seals, window seals, body vents, blower fan area, etc.). The only surfaces that had moisture in the morning was the glass. It did take a few hours for the moisture on the glass to fully dry up. But the ambient air was very saturated with moisture when we left, if it had been a dryer day, about 30 minutes driving with a window open would have probably taken care of it.
All non-glass surfaces (fabric, vinyl, interior trim, carpet, etc. were bone dry). It was nice.
Prior to this trip I bought the smallest mr. heater little buddy. The one with the burner that attaches to the top of the tank. It was just about perfect for the XJ. At first I wasn't so sure about the form factor, with the burner pointed somewhat upward, but after using I began to realize why they designed one that way. Its the only heater they make that can be placed in a crate or bucket and heat upwards. The others would be very difficult to use in a confined vehicle because the risk of getting soft material (sleeping bag, etc) next to the burner is just too great.
At first, I was worried that too much heat would rise to the headliner, not so much for fire safety, but causing problems with the headliner adhesive, but once its burner evened out it was just about perfect. The air at the top of the cabin was probably in the 70f range. Though I didn't measure it. The heat definitely collects in the top of the vehicle, but not enough to hurt anything, and you can definitely adjust it by venting the windows.
I ran the heater on and off throughout the night, with about a 3-4 hour period where I turned it off. I vented using the two passenger windows. I'm pretty sensitive to fumes, and some people can handle the fumes of burning propane better than others. I found it to be quite good compared to some other propane heaters I've been around. Also, if you are sleeping laying down, what small amount of smell there is tends to be up higher, so when I was laying down they were no issue at all.
I was able to place the heater in a milk crate that had a few supplies in it, and sat it right by the driver-side rear passenger door. While I slept on the passenger side. So it was very easy to reach without having to move around in the confined space.
The truth is, the bag I was in was good enough that I didn't need the heater at all. But since I had just bought it, and wanted to try it out I ran it a lot more than necessary. When I first settled in for the night it sure was nice to be able to sit there getting some of the gear arranged for the night in total comfort even though it was coming down (snow) heavily outside. Also, being able to turn it on in the morning was almost so nice as to be cheating. I popped the heater on, and made coffee in the vehicle, so when my buddy got out of his tent, I already had coffee ready for us before even having my outside gear back on.
By the way, for the coffee drinkers...if you have not found Starbucks Via packets yet. Umm...run..don't walk...to walmart (or wherever) and get some. You'll probably throw away all of your various space consuming coffee making gear after trying them. I did.
The Jeep does way better than a tent in terms of condensation. Having the windows cracked for the heater allows the warm moist air to escape through the top, while cold dry air is entering through a variety of other tiny areas around the body (door seals, window seals, body vents, blower fan area, etc.). The only surfaces that had moisture in the morning was the glass. It did take a few hours for the moisture on the glass to fully dry up. But the ambient air was very saturated with moisture when we left, if it had been a dryer day, about 30 minutes driving with a window open would have probably taken care of it.
All non-glass surfaces (fabric, vinyl, interior trim, carpet, etc. were bone dry). It was nice.
02-19-2018, 08:49 PM
#7
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Thread Starter
I hope you don't mind me sharing something here. We have the same heater and have used it a lot in different conditions for years including the Jeep. They do require adequate ventilation or they will smother you. Carbon monoxide is odorless, so there may be much more present than you can actually smell as fumes. And the biggest concern is the heater consuming almost all the oxygen in the vehicle.
The biggest risk when using them in a confined space is setting soft material on fire. With big puffy sleep systems, it is very easy to have a bag get bunched up next to one. Because I was solo, it wasn't too hard to create a safe space for it, but with two in the vehicle it would have been more difficult.
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02-19-2018, 09:29 PM
#8
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True. Can't be too safe. The heater has a low-oxygen shutoff, though I wouldn't trust my life to it. The carbon monoxide risk is relatively low, but one could add a carbon monoxide detector (available at any hardware store) if they wanted to be extra careful (in fact I will do this, why not). In my case, the heater generated enough heat that I had to ventilate the vehicle pretty thoroughly just to avoid it getting uncomfortably hot inside.
The biggest risk when using them in a confined space is setting soft material on fire. With big puffy sleep systems, it is very easy to have a bag get bunched up next to one. Because I was solo, it wasn't too hard to create a safe space for it, but with two in the vehicle it would have been more difficult.
The biggest risk when using them in a confined space is setting soft material on fire. With big puffy sleep systems, it is very easy to have a bag get bunched up next to one. Because I was solo, it wasn't too hard to create a safe space for it, but with two in the vehicle it would have been more difficult.
I often wondered if mounting a flat aluminum panel out about an inch in front of the grill to block and contain the infrared might limit this issue a bit. But that panel is going to get hot as heck too. But at least you wouldn't have to worry so much about stuff two feet away.
02-20-2018, 08:15 AM
#12
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Thread Starter
I was using a 3-piece military system. You can see it in the pictures if you look close. The outer layer was bundled up in the upper left on top of the containers etc. It was plenty warm enough, even if there had been no heater. We probably only saw 15f temps that night.
02-20-2018, 08:24 AM
#13
CF Veteran
Don't know where you were camping but here in WV 15*F is COLD due to the humidity. First time I went to the Rockies(early Oct.) we got up the first morning before daylight. Knew it was cold guessing low 20's. Found out later on from the next over it had been zero. Fooled me.
02-20-2018, 08:31 AM
#14
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I hope you don't mind me sharing something here. We have the same heater and have used it a lot in different conditions for years including the Jeep. They do require adequate ventilation or they will smother you. Carbon monoxide is odorless, so there may be much more present than you can actually smell as fumes. And the biggest concern is the heater consuming almost all the oxygen in the vehicle.
We've always used a double mantle Coleman lantern for heat. Went to Colorado years back. Threw a poly tarp over the 8x10 tent. Kept as snug as a bug....... Of course we turned it off at night but it QUICKLY heated us in the morning. I just couldn't trust any kind of heater when I'm sleeping. Been a few years back that a couple hunters here climbed in the back of a camper topped pickup to warm up. Fired up the Coleman cook stove (probably worst as far as putting out carbon monoxide). Fell asleep and of course never woke up.
02-20-2018, 09:44 AM
#15
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my GF and I have been sleeping in the back of the XJ on all of our trips since we first bought it. taking out the lower rear seat cushion is key
i picked up two 3" memory foam mattress toppers along with a nice stockpile of pillows and blankets (and two sleeping bags if it gets really cold)
we actually sleep great in the back compared to when we used to tent camp. im 6" and she is 5"3' so we are fairly comfortable as long as i put the seats forward
you can kind of see our setup in some of the pics i posted in my ongoing thread
https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f59/bo...rst-xj-241192/
i picked up two 3" memory foam mattress toppers along with a nice stockpile of pillows and blankets (and two sleeping bags if it gets really cold)
we actually sleep great in the back compared to when we used to tent camp. im 6" and she is 5"3' so we are fairly comfortable as long as i put the seats forward
you can kind of see our setup in some of the pics i posted in my ongoing thread
https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f59/bo...rst-xj-241192/