Poodle Head Mikey

1998 GC 2WD 4.0 w/auto

Girl hit me square in the rear on the highway. The frame hitch took the impact and did not bend. Rather it bent down 6" by kinking the rear frame channels upward. This does not impact the driving in any way and I have been happily driving the Jeep for the week since the accident.

Today the insurance company told me the repair would be $3000. they declared it a total-loss and then offered me $1500. But . . . They would get the vehicle.

I have a new engine and transmission, all new cooling system, new brakes all around, new battery, new suspension, and some other stuff - which has cost me more than $1500. <g>

So I suggested that they send me $1500. And I keep the Jeep. I'll weld some 3" angle onto the frame - spanning the kink on each side - and then bolt the frame hitch onto the added-angle. I'm thinking: 2-3 hours with a welder and so forth.

They say: $1300. If I keep the truck AND . . . They will have the title modified to: Unrepairable Salvage. I asked and was told that the State Of Florida will then not allow the vehicle to be operated on public roads again.

My attitude of course is: Eff That! <g>

My question for you all is: Is that true? If I allow them to alter the tile to Salvage - will FL declare it unroadworthy? Anybody here from Florida? Or otherwise know how this **** works?

Can I really lose the Jeep no matter which way I decide to go?

I can tell you: these insurance azzholes are really starting to make my back and neck hurt. <g>

Biggsly

I'm not sure in Florida, but I know in Oklahoma you can still drive it. Just take basic coverage out on it and you are fine here. The only problem with XJs is that they really have no book value, so it does not take much to "total" them.
Good luck with it.

Bugout4x4

Man...you just tapped one of my major beefs with insurance companies. I just went through this myself for the first time recently. At what point when I got insurance did I sign title and ownership over to the insurance company to give them legal right to make this decision on my private property and make me "buy it back". When was it ever legally theirs to sell back to me?

The problem is they can total a vehicle because of a dollar amount rather than if it is still safe to drive or not. In my case we got hit in the passenger door on my custom ordered Dodge 3500 which has absolutely no safety issues to be concerned about. Yet because they totaled it over a dollar amount in damage I will now have to get a salvage title to collect the pay out. Which means it cannot be driven until I repair the damage and go get it inspected by the state to get a "Rebuilt" title in order to put it on the road again.

When your policy is up you will not be able to get insurance on it again until you go through all this. They are all in cahoots and report this to a national database to inform other insurance companies that it has been deemed as totaled. So of course in most states these also means you cannot operated it without insurance. It's a scam that truly needs to be addressed by the public and state legislatures. Mine was in Az but you might want to dig into your own local state laws to see if they have any consumer protection laws against insurance companies pulling this scam on you.

extrashaky

The DMV doesn't make the decision to total your Jeep. Usually the insurance company does that (with your consent), or you can apply for a salvage title or certificate of destruction yourself if you're taking a vehicle off the road without going through an insurance company. And the insurance company doesn't usually just decide to total your vehicle on their own. You have to sign off on it, and you can usually tell them "no thanks" and just keep the Jeep without getting payment on your claim if you want.

Here's a page that explains the process in Florida:

https://www.dmv.org/fl-florida/salvaged-vehicles.php

I haven't dealt with it myself, but it appears Florida has two levels of title for totaled vehicles. A vehicle with a salvage title CAN be put back on the road, but you have to have it inspected and get a rebuilt title.

The "non repairable" title your insurance adjuster mentioned is probably a certificate of destruction. A lot of states came up with a "non repairable" level of title to allow for cars to be legally owned by scrap yards without allowing them back into public use. This is primarily to keep flooded cars that look fine after being cleaned up from being resold to unsuspecting owners only to have them fall apart from the flood damage. If they sold it back to you with a certificate of destruction, you'd be able to strip it for parts, but you wouldn't be able to get it registered for use on the road again.

You could argue with the adjuster and drag it out if you really wanted to keep it. Claims adjusters typically have high workloads and are evaluated on how quickly they settle claims. Therefore they want claims to go away quickly, so they offer a quick settlement and then try to make you feel like you have no choice but to take it. That may be why they are trying to insist you'll get a certificate of destruction, so you'll just shut up, take the money and go away, and they won't have to deal with delivering the car back to you. When it becomes clear you're not going to take their first offer, sometimes they become more cooperative.

Personally, I'd take the money and let it go. However, if I wanted to continue driving the vehicle, I'd do one of two things. Either I'd make it clear to the adjuster that I wanted to fix it and keep driving it, pushing for a regular salvage title that could be rebuilt; or I'd just tell them no thanks, withdraw the claim, fix it on my own dime and keep driving it. You won't get any money for the second option, but you also won't end up with a salvage title.

I just did a quick Edmunds valuation on that vehicle in average condition with 150K miles, and it came in at less than $1,000. Insurance adjusters often have an extra $500 in reserve to help make troublesome claimants go away. If it were me, I'd probably push to get the adjuster to bump the payout to $2K, then take the money, let them have the vehicle and find something else to replace it. There are lots of ~$2K XJs around that will continue to hold their value better than a '98 GC.

Bugout4x4

Oh yes the insurance company can do it without your consent and do... This is where they absolutely have too much power. And they will not renew your policy on it again. Then they make sure it goes into record that they have totaled it and no other insurance company will touch it when they look up that vehicle in the future.

extrashaky

We've been through this twice. With my Cherokee, I was in a 75% state. The estimate came in slightly over 75% of the estimated value, so the adjuster just declared to me that it was totaled and actually cut a check to wave in my face, thinking he was going to settle this one quick and be one more claim closer to his monthly quota. I refused to accept the settlement and said I didn't want it totaled because I intended to keep it and didn't want to deal with a salvage title. He initially started that same crap, about how it had to be totaled under state law (which is BS). I said it was worth a little money to me not to have a salvage title and asked whether he would let it go if I agreed to drop some parts off the estimate.

I still have that same Jeep (fixed now). It still has a clean title. It's still insured with the exact same company.

On my brother's car fire, they said the car was totaled and offered him a ridiculously low number, so he just never accepted the payout. Since he never accepted their settlement, the claim expired and the statute of limitations ran out. The insurance company couldn't total it, because it was never their car to total. He still has it, and it still has a clean title. He'll rebuild it eventually, and it will make it worth more that it doesn't have a salvage title.

When you buy an insurance policy, you don't sign your title over to the insurance company. You own the car until you agree that you don't. They can't just take it from you. They can say, "We're not going to pay your claim unless you sign it over." But you can just say, "No thanks, I'll keep it."

wingless

It is good that the trailer hitch provided enough protection so that the fuel tank was not damaged and did not start leaking from the rear end impact.

The highways in Florida suck lemons through a garden hose.

Whenever traffic requires my vehicle to slow on the highway, the first thing I do is turn on the four way hazard flashing lights until I determine that a small hole has been bored through the brain crust of the person sitting behind the steering wheel of the vehicle careening towards the rear of my vehicle and they react by sufficiently slowing that projectile.

extrashaky

I would be afraid of the "moth to a flame" effect and worry that the flashers would actually attract a drunk in my direction.

Jeepin'_Aint_EZ

I hate to be too honest but a 98 GC 2wd isn't worth much to begin with. The new engine, suspension, etc cost more than the jeep can sell for. You put yourself upside-down in your own vehicle. I would take the 1300, keep the GC and find a suitable donor in need of an engine and swap all your parts over then scrap the totalled GC.

dave1123

Unfortunately, this man is right. My first jeep was a 97 ZJ that sang her siren song and sucked me right in. It cost me $1500 but was very clean topside and ran very well. Two months later, the transmission **** the bed and I spent $3000 fixing it and a few other things. A year later and the frame rotted enough that the rear control arms broke out of the frame, AFTER putting $400 worth of tires on it!

SO, I spent $4900 on a jeep that was only worth about $1000 at best! Cut your losses, take the money, and find another jeep. My opinion.

Bugout4x4

And not just drunks, everyone. I actually had to stop using my strobes on roadside service calls because of that phenomenon. Far too many close calls. The Highway Patrol didn't like it and tried to tell me it was required, I had to go prove it was not required for my particular service per code and definition.

The close calls stopped completely after I did...

Bugout4x4

You make a good point here that might help him greatly... He needs to go get his own much lower estimate from someone who will let him supply a used rear hatch. Rather than allow the insurance company to make the estimate and call about what it will cost. The main thing is keeping it from being classified as totaled if possible.

I think in this whole subject there is a lesson... If it is only worth a couple grand and you plan on fixing any smaller bashing in the future and continue to drive it without dealing with the insurance and state "total" factor, just put liability only on it... You don't have to go through any of that mess if you only have liability on the vehicle. It's when they have to pay out you get drug into his process.

extrashaky

Just because you don't have comprehensive coverage doesn't mean you won't file a claim with the other driver's liability insurance.

I don't think he ever specified whether he's dealing with his own insurance company or the other driver's insurer. Since she rear-ended him, it's probable that she's at fault, and her insurance company would ultimately be responsible for the damages if he wanted to file a claim. If he just has liability coverage for himself, he'd file his claim with her liability insurance. If he has comprehensive coverage, he could file with her insurance, or he could file the claim with his own insurer, and his insurer would in turn file a claim with her insurance through the subrogation process to get reimbursed.

Either way, whoever actually pays the claim to him will still follow the state thresholds for determining whether it's a total loss. The only way to avoid that is to not file a claim at all with either insurer.

However, I agree there would be little point in carrying comprehensive coverage on a Grand Cherokee worth $1K on the open market. If you averaged one wreck every five years and paid $1000 per year for comprehensive coverage, you'd end up paying the insurer $5K to get $1K back if you wrecked the vehicle. It would make more sense at that point to just "self insure," accepting the risk of loss.

I carry only liability insurance on my Cherokee. The actual cash value of it is low enough now that it just doesn't make sense to pay out more for insurance than the vehicle is actually worth. If I do something stupid and destroy it, I don't get a payout, but then I also didn't pay the insurance company years of premiums, so I'm ahead. If someone else does something stupid and smashes it, it's likely I'll make their insurance company pay for it.

Bugout4x4

Absolutely. This would be like paying out extra for windshield coverage, Why? What's the chances you will break so many at a cost of $150 each that the coverage would ever be a benefit and pay for it's self?

extrashaky

That's a source of irritation for me here in Florida. Although I only carry liability on my Jeeps, I carry comprehensive coverage on my Subaru. Florida requires the insurance companies to include windshield coverage in their comprehensive collision insurance. Here, you get one "free" windshield per year if you have full coverage.

I put "free" in quotes because it's not free. We pay higher rates in Florida to cover the cost of the windshield coverage. It's just rolled into our regular premium where we can't see it.

But voters are imbeciles, and they elect morons to represent them. The result is legislation that results in a lot of people just replacing chipped windshields that could actually be repaired, because hey, it's "free," right? There are also glass companies that advertise that they'll "buy" your chipped windshield from you if you use them for a windshield coverage claim, basically bribing people to file windshield claims and bring the business to them. The glass company bills your insurance company $700 or $800 for a window that would cost you $350 in another state and bribes you $150 cash. It's the perfect scam, because it's perfectly legal. And what do you care, you're getting a "free" windshield and $150 in your pocket!

Meanwhile, the rest of us are paying for this nonsense. The drivers down here are stupid enough to drive the rates up without adding to it unnecessarily.