JeepFaced

Greetings,

I am JeepFaced! About two months ago my horrible Volkswagen Jetta expired and I was lucky enough to get a 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 4x4 5.2L V8 from the local auto auction for $1100 out the door. Had 265,000 miles, was squealing like a banshee, no A/C, kept stalling out, but I had a twinkle in my eye for it, and can see the potential in it. I wsn't a "Jeep Owner" yet, however.

On the first ride home, it started cutting out as I was making a left turn. It was low on gas, so I figured that was my last hope to get it to a station. When I did, I filled the tank completely and chucked some oil in the crankcase. As I was pulling out of the station, it stalled out and turned off completely. It restarted fine and made a 100 mile trip home. It was loud, squeaky, constantly beeped Coolant Sensor Bad. But it was a chug-a-lug of love! The feel, the leather seats perfectly cushioned, everything just feels set up for comfort in any setting. After that ride home, despite the problems I noted... I got JeepFaced. I love Jeep!

If the Jeep had a story to tell me, I feel it would tell me an adventurous tale of being a daily driver for a family of middle-upper class who kept the vehicle servicing intervals on a regular basis until taken over by their teenage girl, who did no maintenance and neglected it. Perhaps shifted the 4WD while in Drive a time or two, and maybe got stuck in mud once. Mostly a decently kept teenage cruiser. After 2007, it appears to have sat for the last 4 years, oxidizing the aluminum parts and parts of the wheels, etc. Leaves built up in engine bay and a birds nest are some of the evidence. This Jeep was well used, had a great service life, and most likely was simply replaced by a newer Jeep and they couldn't bear to let it go.

Well I love you little Jeep, and I am going to bring you to a condition that meets and exceeds your stock condition. Hopefully, some of the great minds on this forum might help me along the way.

Here is what I have done so far:
-Changed Oil and Filter
-Changed Automatic Trans. Fluid and Filter, ATF+4/LucasTransmission Conditioner
-Replaced Air Filter, Ram Air
-Replaced Brake Pads, Filed Scale Rust from Rotors
-Replaced Rear Sway Bar Bushings, Aftermarket Silicone
-Repaired Rear Door latch mechanism
-Replaced Battery Cable Terminals
-Replaced Battery, Duralast Gold 100/875
-Replaced Serpentine Belt and Tightened Tensioner
-Cleaned and resurfaced Vehicle Ground Connection
-Repaired Muffler Rust-Through, Removed rusty clamps
-Replaced EGR Valve
-Replaced PCV valve
-Replaced Coolant Level Sensor
-Filled Front/Rear Differentials with Lucas Heavy Duty Gear Oil
-Replaced all light bulbs, interior and exterior, applied dielectric grease
-Replaced all tires with 225/75/R16
-Cleaned Throttle Body
-Cleaned Idle Air Controller
-Replaced Fuel Filter
-Replaced Spark Plugs, Champion Copper
-Replaced Spark Plug Wires
-Serviced Air Conditioning

"Tomorrow's Plans:"
*Work on PCM and BCM soldering connections
*Disconnect, Inspect, and Reconnect all electrical connections
*Replace Valve Cover Gaskets; Inspect
*Tighten up Steering Gearbox

Here are some observations and solutions:

Alignment:
The alignment is horrible, and the steering wheel pitches at about 10-and 3- o'clock. Outside edges of tires are toed out, and on hot asphalt you can hear the tires rubbing in any turn. After looking at steering and suspension components, I have determined that the following need replaced:

*Pitman-InnerLeft Tie Rod end, DragLink (where DL-Steering Knuckle Join), Tie Rod, and Left Tie Rod End-Steering Knuckle, 2x Stabilizer Bar Links/Bushings.

Solution: Replacing the above, starting with Tie Rod Ends and Stabilizer links to try and avoid the more expensive repairs til later. Buying a new set of tires with free alignment post-operation.
UPDATED: Replacing all tires evened out the alignment a little, but steering box is most likely loose causing floppy steering.

Drivetrain:
Believe it or not, I get better gas mileage now than driving the Jetta. I get about 18 MPG when driving on flat surfaces and 26 during highway. However, Pick up just seems lacking for a V8, and when started cold, it makes a CLUNK-and-slip-feel when going up hill with the gas aggressively pressed. I changed the Transmission fluid, and there was little evidence of metal wear, but the fluid had not been changed in some time. Filter was pretty clean. Shudder has been greatly reduced, but I also did not adjust the bands because I could not find the required 5/16" 8-point socket I need in my local area.

I think the clunk is the U-Joints and they are cheap enough I will just replace them. It is intermittent and hasn't affected drive. Sometimes when stopped and idling, a tapping noise starts faintly and gradually grows louder, like CLANK-CLANK-CLANK, high pitched metal sound. When I added gear oil to the differentials, this reduced the predominant grinding noise and I believe the sound might be coming from the transfer case. I thought it was chain driven though, so I am unsure. I have so far forgotten to check the transfer case fluid level. It is probably bone dry like my differentials were.

Rough Idle has been alleviated by cleaning the Idle Air Controller, which was caked with crud.

Climate Control:
UPDATED: I now have A/C! After having sat for a few years, the refrigerant had boiled off. However, an unnerving hiss is predominant after vehicle has been driven a few miles and turned off. However, I cannot tell where it is coming from. System had die put in but it doesnt show up anywhere.

Well, it's been a helluva first post. Guess it is a good opening. Sorry for the long post; I like to be as clear and concise as I can be to paint a proper picture. Speaking of pictures, I will follow up in this thread with pictures of my buddy, as it is now, and as it goes along. Then evolve into a build thread. =)

If I am not too lazy, and can remember, I will take pictures of the various fixes too. I am a USAF Disabled Veteran, F-15 Fighter Crew Chief and High School Mechanic (nyuk nyuk). I have good mechanical knowledge and I have a Haynes manual and access to the internet.

Nice to meet ya!

Jordan1996 ZJ

well after reading your autobiography it looks like you got your work cut out for you, one thing i can say about these ZJ limiteds is that they are pack full of computers and thats where i have ended up devoting a lot of my man hours

welcome to the forum cant wait to see some pics

stomper27

Jeep faced I luv ya already brother! Welcome back to your jeep. It's quite obvious you owned one in a previous life.

JeepFaced

Thanks guys.

Maybe I have had a Jeep in a past life, or maybe in a number of alternate paradigms I own a Jeep, it only makes sense!

I added my "before" pictures, of course it is right now, so I dont have any afters =)

As for the electrical and computer issues, I have lots of experience troubleshooting bad wiring gremlins in a Honda Accord, a Chevy S-10 Blazer, and the VW Jetta, so "it ain't nuthin' but time." I'll pull out every friggin wiring harness and rewire em if I have to.

I enjoy fooling around with electrical stuff and upgrading as well so it is a little less of work for me. I owe $5k on my Jetta and it's engine is blown. I owe nothing whasoever on this Jeep so everything I put in it brings it closer to OEM.

After my preliminary inspection however, I feel I am lucky to have found a vehicle with very few electrical problems, and the existing mechanical issues are just what you are going to find with a vehicle this age.

The camera I am using is a Canon Digital Rebel Xti and when I am doing maintenance, I will take pictures and in due time make a tech write-up for the benefit of others. What use is an online forum if you arent freely disseminating that knowledge to others?

Lookin' forward. Headed out to the A/C shop now =)

JeepFaced

Apparently after sitting for several years with the A/C left unused, the refrigerant simply dissipated and the system needed to be evacuated and recharged. I have AIR CONDITIONING!!! Also, the clutch was engaging erratically due to a feeble, loose wire. I am going to have to fix that.

I also had 3 used tires slapped on which were 80% better than the 3 they replaced.

All for $100 =) I love Jeep. Boy is the wife going to be happy.

Bustedback

Jeep faced, is that like pudding faced? Welcome to the Jeep experience, no need to wipe your feet because Jeeps are meant for the dirt. You got a nice rig there man.

JeepFaced

@Busted: Thanks for the warm welcome and its like (Charlie) SheenFaced except with Jeep. Inside joke with the wife: I say "I love your face" combined with Epic Winning by having a Jeep... Translation "I'm SheenFaced with Love Having a Jeep!"

I like it that much. Its something to do with the way you feel driving it, confident it will get you where you want to go while (Limited edition GC) has a lot of bells and whistles that make it even more nice. It makes me want to drive at a leisurely pace rather than race around wasting gas. It has tinted windows, infiniti speakers, heated seats, auto dimming rear and sideview mirrors... who am I kidding you guys know damn well what this model has... best of all, it all works! And I love it!

Winning here winning there, win win everywhere.

Truth be told I have always been a Honda man until I was blessed with this ZJ. I spent a good amount of time wading through months worth of posts here and on Jeepforum before deciding this was the better joint.

Now, I noticed after the fact that I got 225/75/R16 on the two front and the rear driver sides. I have a 225/70/R16 on the rear passenger side and I am worried it will tear up my transmission if I ride this way for too long or too fast. Unfortunately there are zero of the 75 available used in my area and I have to buy a brand new one. What is the recommendation here? Do I just need to be gentle til I get a paycheck or should I go ahead and buy the new tire right away to avoid any damage on transmission?

JeepFaced

I decided to drive as little as possible and buy the new tire as soon as possible. I do not want any undue stress on the differentials as driving it feels like crap because of that tire. I know it isnt good for it at all and that answers the question. I wish I would have known better, but now I know.

This is my first all-time 4x4 vehicle. All others I have driven have been 2WD.

Are there any other concerns like this that I should know about? I understand towing a 4x4 has to have driveshafts discoed, transfer case put in neutral and transmission in park or neutral or flatbed... (if thats indeed right) Stuff like that? I dont want to shoot myself in the foot anymore than I already do.

JeepFaced

Took the wife to work this morning, a round trip which is no more than 5 miles.

Started fine, but after about a mile of driving it felt like it slipped and the RPM flickered up to about 2500 from 1000. I remarked to the wife for the record, and paid even closer attention to the feel and actions of the vehicle. I had the characteristic morning "clunk" as well.

I pulled in to her work parking lot, let her out, and continued turning heading back toward the road, and it died out on me. I restarted it, had a little conversation with the Jeep, and we made it home with no problems.

-----

Here are my observations:

Any time vehicle has been unused for over 8 hours and is cold, when driven less than a mile, will generate a low "clunk" in the area between the front end and the front seats. I can not duplicate (CND) problem with a helper driving the car and walking alongside. I can not hear it from the outside; it seems to be one of those things that resonate in the interior of the vehicle rather than have a loud audible noise externally. The driveshafts do not exhibit any out of round condition, and the U-Joints are old and worn but not horribly so. Ive yanked on the driveshafts in all directions (xyz) and twisting and there is no play.
-I am going to replace all the U-Joints, and tighten driveshaft support bolts and the like.

Questions: Are there any other known issues that might cause this clunk to occur? Could it be indicative of a transmission component having excessive wear?

-----

Each time I disconnect and reconnect the vehicle negative battery cable and reconnect after maintenance, the intermittent stalling occurs. I have checked all fuses in the passenger compartment as well as Power Distribution Center. Ive replaced the corroded negative battery terminal and cable clamp, and abraded/cleaned the vehicle ground.
-The battery is old and needs to be replaced. It has a lot of grime on it and looks like it was made in the 90's. The positive cable clamp needs to be replaced but I had lowered priority due to the short length of the cable. I'll fix that today.

Questions: Are others having this intermittent stall issue happen or go away each time battery is disco/recoed? I have had to D/R battery several times for maintenance in the past few days, and each time I reco I get a different result. It drives great, or I have stalling. Could it be the battery is just low on power and the simple answer is to replace? If so, can the not-less-than 2 month (usage time) old battery in my VW Jetta be used in the ZJ? The dimensions are the same and both posts are at the top. <--EDIT: I dont think it can be used as the Cold Cranking Amps on my VW battery are 650 with 60 reserve, 560 at 32deg and the ZJ battery is 875 CCA/ 660 0deg. *sigh* batteries are 'spensive.

Bustedback

The ECM will go into a relearn mode everytime the battery is disconnected and reconnected, a junky battery will cause weird stuff to happen too. I'm not sure if your VW battery will fit properly in your ZJ, but you could try it. Your ZJ is all wheel drive and has the NP249J transfercase in it. Those transfercases have a viscous coupler between the front and rear drive shaft output, those are problematic at best and have a high fail rate, that may the cause of the noise. You can swap an NP231J or an NP242J in place of the 249, that way you would have 2wd for on the road and 4wd for the dirt. A failing idle air control motor could also cause a stalling issue at stops, any parts house should have one for you for around 50 bucks.

JeepFaced

I don't know why I didnt think about the ECM resetting with each disco. Duh. Well, I went and purchased a Duralast Gold 1000crank/875ColdCrank battery and made sure all the connections are nice and dandy. Eliminates any issues at the battery.

Since my stalling issue has occurred intermittently in between battery resets, I feel the next place to look is the ECM. I have read several hundred articles on common Jeep issues, and I am going to start with the things that cost nothing: I am going to open, inspect, and clean every relay and electrical connection that I can find. I am going to clean all ground connections and reattach them to bare metal (frame, not body). While the connectors are off of the ECM, I am going to look at the solder and also insert two small washers to extend the two #25 torx connectors which could lead to a ground. I figure after 15 years of service life, the Electrical connections and grounds need to be checked.

Because I dont have another Jeep to compare it to, I am confused on this transmission. If I mash the gas to the floor, the vehicle has pretty slow pickup. The tach only reads 300 idle and pretty much stays at 2000 for the mashing, gradually increasing to 3500 at 70mph. Surely this shouldnt be. It doesnt feel like it is shifting at all. I did a full transmission flush and filter change but I couldnt find the socket in my area to do a band adjustment. I regret that. It really feels like the engine starts in either first or second gear and stays there. I dont feel any slippage and the trans flush showed very little wear.

Then, today it stalled out on me at a stop sign. I turned it back on and it started, but when I pushed on the gas, it really hauled some *** for a second. Im used to mashing the pedal to a degree, so when it kicked in it really lurched forward... giving me a sense of the power this thing would have if unrestrained. SO... I am convinced I need to put my last bit of attention on the electrical aspect of the transmission.

Am I correct?" Check wiring, electrical connections, grounds, shorts, tighten them up and then move on to such things that cost money as the Crankshaft Position Sensor, Throttle Position Sensor, et. al? Which of the sensors should I start with? TPS, VSS?

Bustedback

I think the idle air control motor on the throttle body is the cause of the stalling. If it still runs with your foot on the gas but stalls once you take your foot off is an indicator of the IAC motor failing. As far as the shifting issue, you should try adjusting the TV cable (aka the kick down cable and throttle pressure cable). If the cable is not adjusted correctly it will cause either early upshifts or late upshifts and will effect if the transmission kicks down or not.

Here is a thread on adjusting the TV cable
https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f5/kic...ustment-95421/

JeepFaced

I wanted to take the opportunity to say that I understood completely when buying this vehicle from the auction that it would need work.

I had just spent $1200 reconditioning a valve head and 8 bent valves in my VW Jetta because my drivebelt shredded due to a small screw wedging itself in between some gears and consequently shattering the teeth. Prior to that I had to replace a $390 coil pack, $250 water pump, and was basically shelling out $2000 average a year on maintenance since ive had it. Then, 4 months after getting that straightened out, the tensioner bolt tossed itself into the idler pulley and causing an "Eagle Claw" in the pulley belt stop which was enough to rip through the drivebelt/pulley shroud.. lol. Yeah what a mess. Except this time, the fault of the bolt coming loose was not due to loss of torque, but failure of the valve head itself! The metal nub that held the tensioner and bolt and all that sheared off! This could be evidence of overtorquing that bolt causing metal fatigue but seriously! So I would just have to spend an additional $1800 or so this go-round. I chose to part out the VW and use it as a travel trailer, and went to the auction and found this Jeep.

So, I have no problem throwing $2000 worth of new parts on this truck. In the Jeep world, I believe I will have a new truck with only $3000.

Damn I love Jeep.

JeepFaced

Thanks. I have tightened it up, seems to top out at 3000 so im not burning gas horribly but it still didnt shift. I ran over to AutoZone and had them pull OBD codes... Cylinder 7 Misfire (I have changed Spark plugs and Wires, and the old plug was fouled with oil deposits, wet. So the injector is fine but I have some blow-by probably, and likely need to change the coil pack.) and Governor Pressure Sensor code 749 i think. So there we go, next thing to work on. I am going to go after the connection, clean it up, and if it doesnt change anything im going to buy a new one.

Is it out of the question to recover and re-use the transmission fluid when doing the band adjustment since I just performed a transmission flush two days ago?

Bustedback

A misfire could be caused by a vacuum leak. The 5.2 is known for having an issue with plenium cover gasket blowing out and causing oil consumption and a miss. The cover is on the bottom of the intake manifold. You have to pull the intake manifold off to check it unless you have access to a smoke machine. The intake comes off very easy, but you will have to pull the distributor, drain the coolant and replace the gaskets when re-installing. I'm not sure that is the problem with your engine, it's just a thought. Have you checked the fuel pressure on this vehicle yet? Low fuel pressure could be the cause of the sluggish performance.