Hello Community, I run a 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo | 6cyl. 4.0 | 4x4, for personal & light duty work related use. Purchased Nov. 2008 with 102,000 miles & currently has 182,546 (12/10/2014). There are many highway miles & I’ve Never taken the Jeep Off Road, or Rough Terrain, unless you count Pot Hole ridden streets of Chicago, which I haven't driven in a couple yrs.

I should of Joined & Posted here weeks ago, but I wanted to do as much Jeep Community Forum Searching, as well as anything & everything I could find, possibly relating to the Operating & Performance issues I’m currently forced to contend with. By “currently”, I mean Weeks & Months, stressing out me & those around me - I'm very distraught.

Before providing the history of recent tampering of my Jeep by an Inept 2nd party, I’ll list the issues;
[I do mean “Tampering” as a derogatory reference & Inept is an accurate description of the individual - Inept describes current mechanical aptitude (lack thereof) & delusional applies to his thought process]

1. Intermittent Starting (Cold Weather Effected): This is happening since Cold Weather set in @ 36-40 degrees & below. The Colder the Temperature, the longer it takes for the Relays to Click & simultaneously, the Fuel Pump to Function. In Warmer Weather, approx. 40 degrees & above, it starts up without the following ceremony.

Its easiest to jump ahead & describe the ‘work around’
[it took weeks, with a lot of Trouble Shooting & frustration, to get it down to these seemingly 3 easy steps]

a. Turn the Key into On Position
[Do Not try & Crank the Engine until & unless the Relay Clicks & Fuel Pump is heard, otherwise it will crank with No Start, All Day + taking even longer for the Relays to engage]

b. Wait & Listen for the Relays to Click - This can take 5,6...10 seconds, and or Cycle the Key a 2nd or 3rd time & wait again, 5,6...10 seconds, each. Recently, I believe if I just turn the Key On & wait, the Relays will eventually Click. Meaning, Cycling the Key seems to have been pointless, and application of patience is required.

As soon as the Relays click (they’re loud & heard through the Dashboard/ Heater Vent @ Glove Box), the Fuel Pump will kick in/ do its thing, simultaneously.

c. Turn the Key & it Cranks & Starts

Again, weeks of Trouble Shooting this Cold Start, reduced to the seemingly easy, a,b,c steps.
On Cold Days (30 or so & below), the issue will go back to square 1, within an hour = back to steps a,b,c.
If the vehicle is shut off, yet restarted intervals of 5,10, 20 minutes, then restarting is often as simple as turning the key, but the longer it sits, the more cause for a,b,c to begin again.

I was blind sided by the Cold Start issue on our 1st Midwest, Cold Weather day, Oct., 31, 2014. With the warmer weather prior, the two (2) Operating & Performance Issues I was aware of, were longer cranking time before the Engine started, and Rough Idle @ Stops. Both of which were not issues, prior to the Jeep being Tampered with.

Having owned the Jeep since Nov. 2008, I’ve never encountered a starting issue, other than a dead battery (Nov. 2010). I’ve had one (1) Ignition Issue = Ignition Coil Failed (Feb 2009). Also, should I be hearing the Relays clicking (loud & clear)? I have no recollection if I ever heard them prior to the current issues at hand. Should I be hearing them at all?

2. Intermittent Rough Idle: I’m unsure if the Intermittent Starting & Rough Idle @ Stops, is related, however, they coincide of How or Why (Cause) of the Jeep’s Operating & Performance Issues.

I state the Rough Idle is Intermittent, because while driving, things appear to be ‘normal’, but coming to a full stop (brakes applied with Trans. in Drive) the Jeep Idles Rough - Often Violent enough for the Dashboard, E-Brake Lever & Gear Shift + anything else not nailed down to Vibrate. If there’s a Soda Can in the Cup Holder, then rattle, rattle, rattle.

However, if I place the Trans. in Neutral (at the stop) the Violent Shake calms down. Even though this happens a majority of the time, there’s a small percentage of instances that it doesn't produce this symptom at Stops.

The same applies at initial start up of the Jeep. Many times, with the a,b.c ceremony applied, the Jeep will Turn Over & Start with Ease, and the running condition will seem ‘normal’, as it warms up. Yet, there have been instances when;

2.a - Start up is Rough, seeming like its struggling to get fuel [must keep the key turned until its running on its own. Let go of the key prematurely, it will shutdown] - This has happened 7-10 times in the last 7 weeks, with various approaches @ Start up

2.b - Clean Start, yet the Idle is Rough until it warms up - Rough, as in the same Rough, described at Stops, except this is with the vehicle in Park.

This is a lot of info regarding the issues. I’ll present what led to the above & what I’ve done in attempt to diagnose & resolve them (to no avail), in the reply section.

 

Pretty long post, and to be honest, I didn't read the entire thing. But with that being said, start with doing some maintenance. A complete tune up with plugs, wires, cap, and rotor. New fuel filter, air filter, and CCV valve. Have the battery and charging system checked out. Replace the serpentine belt and do some cooling system maintenance.

 

Yes, I agree B.Back, the posting is long. As for the Issues, I didn't want to leave anything out. As I'm trying to stick to the relevant facts, I've been through the ringer here & am really stressed out. I was Exploited (Taken for granted/ advantage of / played for a fool) & regardless what I say, everything I've been through since mid-August this year, pretty much suggests that I am (sucker at large).

I dunno - When does Trust & Providing benefit of the Doubt turn into being believed to be Gullible.
I gave this Driveway Mechanic every chance & all the time in the world, to address the repair work properly & make up for his immense screw ups. This hasn't happened without more insult to injury & adding more injury to that.

What B.Back suggests in his post is what should of been done weeks ago, especially considering who & how did 'General Maintenance' on my Jeep, causing damage, instead of Proper Care.

I finally spoke to a relative the other day, that is a longtime, certified mechanic, and in detail, explained the crud I've been through with the Driveway Mechanic & Results of his work. My relative wanted to shoot me for allowing it to happen & can't believe the Inept behavior / performance of the Driveway guy, to have approached & done (or not done) to my vehicle, beginning with "cleaning the engine" with Degreaser.

Must Do / Inspect:
- Plugs & Wires - [Plugs correct gap? Porcelain cracked?]
- Cap & Rotor - [evidence of arcing?]
- Vacuum lines (hoses) - [Cracked, worn, disconnected?]
- o2 Sensor(s) - [The Driveway Mechanic Cross Threaded Bank 1 = is it Installed on an Angle? Is it Connected?]
- Crank Shaft Sensor - [harness fastened or damage?]
- Fuel Filter - [Installed in the correct direction?]
- Air Filter - [Its supposed to be New, yet how could the guy screw this up?]

Basically, go through everything [everything the guy is considered work I owe him $$ for - aka; able to deduct from my billing for Complete & Quality Workmanship],

including making sure the Exhaust Manifold is bolted down correctly, injector rail, etc., since this was something I felt cornered into commissioning, straining from the fact the guy wouldn't address & repair the TPS for 2 weeks!

 

This week, I've been able to do nothing with the Jeep, because its been possession of the local Transmission shop, since Monday morn. (12/8). I originally brought the Jeep to Trans. Shop last Thurs. (12/4) for Transfer Case Seals & F + R Pinion Seals.

I Picked it up Late Friday & ran errands with it Saturday. At 50 miles, I made a stop & after (approx) 10min, I came out to find a lot of oil leaked (puddled) from the Rear Pinion Seal & was dripping steadily. It was still early, so I dropped by Trans. Shop before they closed, just so they could take note of it & I'd be back Monday. It's been there ever since.

Of course the shop was back logged, so I knew I'd be on the wait list, yet by Wednesday, I stopped by & Jeep was in the same spot, with same exact mileage. I went inside & the owner said they hadn't been able to get it started for the last two (2) days. [sigh] I told them about the intermittent Cold Starting & a/b/c procedure, in writing, but I guess he thought I was the boy that cried wolf. I took him to the lot & went through a/b/c & he was like, "wow, that's strange". Yeah, No kidding.

That was approx. 10am Thurs. & still no word about the repair. What's going on with the rear pinion seal? Guess what... Even though I told the inept Driveway Mechanic NOT to touch it, he did anyway. On Oct. 10, 2014, I arrived just after 7am & the lunatic had two (2) different seals for the rear pinion. 1. I told him I didn't want him touching anything else on my truck + 2. I told him there's nothing wrong with the Seal & even took him out there & pointed out that it wasn't leaking & has never leaked on me!

I went to work in the house & later peeked out the window to see the back-end in the air! I was in the middle of something, so couldn't rush out there, but (approx) 10min later I did & the truck was back down & he's in his basement, spinning around in his chair, supposedly had already done & finished replacing the seal! - "It was easy", he said. "I've done lots of them", he said. "You should be happy, because your gears could of gone bad", he said. 'Okay, Whatever!', I Said!

Guess what - the next morning I come out to find oil leaking onto my driveway. I get to his house & WTF - He then proceeds to tell me that the "oil is thick" and what I'm seeing is spillage from the Fill-Cap, even though I can see, plain as day that its coming from the seal. This went on for two (2) weeks [my last 2 weeks there] & despite me taking photo's of it & [metaphorically] dragging him by the ear several times to see the leaking seal - it didn't phase him - it was left As Is. [One of the days I pointed out how it was not just leaking, but being wind drafted all over my rear bumper & tail gate. I left him there to stare at it, while I went to work & later that day found his Big Fix was to wipe off (smear) the gear oil from the rear window]

The only thing that's semi-funny was his defending himself, saying "it took a lot of oil to fill it up". Seeing the Vids about replacing a seal, oil inevitably drains out of the differential. Two, if it took "a lot" of oil, then he would of charged me for it in his 'parts' section ($15+ 1qt | Seal $15), like he attempts to do with everything else, down to brake fluid & $2 parking bulb. In Essence, another item he deliberately screwed the truck & me with, whether intentional or not, just to 'pad' his bill, for useless, inept, un-wanted, un-needed mechanical work.

Now the Trans. Shop has it & I believe they did everything properly, so why the leak? What did Mr. driveway do? Why is it he didn't want to fix what he broke / corrupted? He did something that isn't good, and again, no accountability or responsibility for his actions - YET, is on the list of deductions he wants to charge me, stealing away payment for work I did in his house.

The Trans. Shop is taking their sweet time with the repair - [sucker at large]

Add On: One or more of the T-Case seals failed in July & leaked out of the front until it couldn't leak anymore. I didn't have the $ or expertise to fix it at the time (obviously)| I saw Front pinion seal had just begun to show signs of leakage, prior to bringing it to trans shop. Prior to that, I was too focused on the rear seal leak (distracted), caused my the Inept dude, since Oct 10.

 

Okay, I'm going to give you MY opinion, and by that I mean it's my opinion and you can do with it what you want.

The imtermittent and prolonged start-up is caused by bad capacitors in the PCM. In the cold, they take longer to charge and allow the PCM to function. This MAY be caused by solder cracks that open in the cold, but I'd be willing to bet the caps themselves are bad. This also may have something to do with the rough idle as well. Try this, put a hairdrier on the PCM until it feels warm, then try starting it.

Differential pinion seals are NOT easy to replace if done correctly! The seal rides on the universal yoke, BUT the yoke and it's nut controls the bearing preload. If this nut is tightened too much, it can put too much pressure on the pinion bearings and overheat them. If left too loose, they can also ruin the bearings. I've had a mechanic who told me he knew what he was doing, destroy my rear axle with too much preload. He replaced the ring, pinion, and all the bearing for free, but 2 weeks later, the rear axle started to whine. I went back to him and he was out of business!

Just as an aside, the pinion yoke can get a groove worn in it where the seal rides and won't seal with a new seal. Some of the better seals have 2 lips to help cure this.

I can't stress this enough! If the pinion seal isn't replaced correctly, it can become your worst nightmare!

 

Dave1123 -

After 7+ weeks dealing with the Cold weather effected Starting issue, plus the weeks/ months prior (warm weather), noticing the engine was turning over multiple times (3-5) prior to starting (after the Driveway mechanic tampered with it), opposed to what I was accustomed to (instant start), combined with a Gift of Rough Idle occurring when I apply brakes & come to complete stop (in drive, at stop & go situations - only to calm down if placed in Neutral),

I believe you placed the beacon of hope/ solution with your input, regarding bad PCM Capacitors. I've search termed everything I could think of, regarding symptoms, systems, specific parts & their function, yet nowhere had I come across PCM Capacitors. However, I didn't search term the PCM specifically, yet just 'about' everything to & from it [sigh].

Using your lead, I found the following link to some great, detailed info, with Jeep owners describing the Cold weather Start to a 'T' !

PCM Capacitor Fix - Cause & Effect of Bad Capacitors

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/f...51/index3.html

Anyone know where a PCM Diagram or Write Up for a 95' Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo | 6cyl - 4.0

Radi replied [link below] with solid input, reflecting further, Cause & Effect of the Driveway mechanic carelessly Degreasing / Cleaning my Engine (unauthorized). In so many words, Radi suggested to blow dry (dry out) & replace every connector, which is a very logical suggestion, based on fact he doused my engine with Degreaser & (I assume) a significant amount of water.

If you knew the Driveway mechanic the way I now know him, you'd feel confident in assuming he didn't cover or protect anything under the hood, prior to performing that task. Its evident with the TPS being killed + addition of Starting & Idle issues I've thoroughly described.

https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/97-...unning-203000/

I suppose I now feel like many others have felt when chasing down a fix in the wrong place(s), and or with "help" from the wrong people. I seriously wanted (no lie) to investigate the basics, because my gut told me all along that it was something obvious. However, not to seem like I'm placing blame, but someone that I was compensating for "helping" me trace down & resolve the Jeep's current inadequate performance, kept steering me away from 'things' the Driveway mechanic did. It was a selfish interest & intended to Exploit/ Bilk me for all he possibly could = Time, Money, and or Exchange of Services.

I said in the beginning, I should of Joined & Posted here weeks ago.
Thanks to all the Knowledgeable, Generous Persons of this Forum & others like it.

RE: Differential Pinion Seal

I never said it was "easy". The Driveway mechanic said "they were easy" after he tasked himself to botch up the Rear Pinion Seal on my truck.
I had every intention of bringing the Jeep to a Reputable Trans Shop to have the T-Case Seals done & while there, inspected to see if anything else needed to be addressed/ repaired. A visit to a Repair Shop could only happen if I have money & that only happens when people pay me for jobs/ work I do.

Things aren't cool right now.

Truck's still @ Trans Shop [12/12 @ 5:03pm], and they've communicated nothing about its status. That's 5 days this week to remedy the Pinion Seal, and 2 last week for the original work commissioned.

No Truck = No Money. I cannot commit to any work, until I know I have reliable transportation to do so.

 

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