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Engine Stalling

Old 11-04-2015, 06:35 PM
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Default Engine Stalling

Hello and good tidings in the Jeep world! I was Jeepin in the past but for some reason the forum doesn't remember who I am.

I bought my 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 4x4 with the 5.2L V8 from an auto auction in Kentucky. I immediately put in $900 worth of sensors, reconditioned the transmission, and gave it a top to bottom "250k" service. After about a total of $1,400 or so, I strapped my spare to the top, stuffed her with as much of our family's belongings as I could, and made the trek out West to Colorado.

The Jeep went back to Kentucky twice to pick up my Wife, our dog and cat, and the rest of our belongings. We blew a bearing in Grain Valley, Missouri and had to get that changed out on the fly.

We drove at speeds over 100mph to beat out any chance of meeting a tornado in Arkansas. She has been to the Devil's Playground at Pike's Peak, and through the Million Dollar Highway many times. She's climbed Red Rocks. She has almost been flipped over... End on end, not sideways! I've had river water in the cabin, and since, Ive had an electrical problem.

After many years of these abuses, my Jeep finally gave out last winter. I was driving to work out in the mountains every day in icy Colorado conditions, so there was considerable wear on the vehicle. I was driving home one day and my electrical started to dim out: My headlights, Cluster panel, everything. As I was coasting downhill to a stop, everything went out completely and I rolled to a stop. I could restart it, but it would chug out and die within 30 seconds. I left it on the side of the road and walked home.

After I towed it home, I gave it a complete tune-up: 8 new iridium spark plugs, new wires, Distributor cap and rotor, Fuel Filter, Serpentine belt and oil change. I also replaced the Battery, the starter, and the alternator. Grounds have all been identified and scoured all metal surfaces to bare metal. I replaced the Body Control Module as well as ensured a proper connection there. All fuses have been ok.

However, one of the fuses when I test with an Ohmmeter shows an electrical draw of -0.02 to -.20 alternating. I tried removing the offending fuse which has left my battery in perfect condition. Previously, before I identified that this fuse had a drain or ground condition, my battery would continually drain resulting in a dead cell in two batteries.

I have attempted to identify the wiring for this particular fuse but nothing on the internet, in a Chilton's or Hayne's manual has illuminated what it could go to.

At this point, I have to get pieces here and there since I finally just bought a replacement car. Today, I replaced the Idle Air Controller. The result? The engine roared to life, subsequently fading as the RPMs eventually dropped to 800 and then 500, at which time the engine would stop. I turned the engine over once more, followed by the eventual fading of the RPM into stall.

Then, I made my account here again. I have searched for the answer to this problem on this website as well as a couple other Jeep forums and have used many posts as a guide to fixing my Jeep. However... I still haven't figured it out after over 13 months sitting now.

Your Thoughts?

Auger
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Old 11-04-2015, 06:50 PM
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So far, my prioritized list is this:
Idle Air Control valve - INSTALLED NOV 4
MAP Sensor
Spark Plug Wires and Plugs (New couldn't hurt; it has been sitting for over a year)
EGR Valve
Ignition Coil
Front and Rear o2 Sensors
Distributor, Cap and Rotor, MSD
Air Intake Charge Temperature Sensor
Vehicle Speed Sensor
Throttle Position Sensor
Camshaft Position Sensor
Crankshaft Position Sensor

...After that... What could it possibly be?? Would I need to take out all the seats and flooring and pull out all of my wiring and redo it in the case of a ground?
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Old 11-08-2015, 02:25 PM
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It is not the MAP sensor or the Throttle Position Sensor, unless those are only good for about 2 years or 50k miles. I just took an in depth look at the doghouse and cleaned stuff up a bit and both the sensors seem still in new condition.

All the spark plugs looked fine except for one that was pretty fouled. I am using Bosch Iridium. Spark plug wires look like crap so they will still get replaced along with the one fouled plug.

My ignition coil looks like its fine. Distributor cap and rotor are relatively new with no wear.

That leaves....

Front and Rear o2 sensors - My exhaust system is floof. The exhaust piping from the headers back is just awful but not eaten through. The Catalytic Converter is toast, the Muffler is toast, and both O2 sensors are rusted to the same degree.

If I get those two sensors and install them it is only $53 bucks. After, everything under there exhaust-wise needs replaced for a total of $375 including sensors and cat.

Distributor/Camshaft Position Sensor, Crankshaft Position Sensor. If it is any of these I might as well do all three at the same time. Total cost $125

Hopefully these are the last things to fix it. It is possible I got a bad PCM but I notice on rockauto they are much cheaper than where I bought this replacement.
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Old 11-08-2015, 04:31 PM
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Alright, at least now I have some pictures to add:
Apparently they wanted to only upload sideways.



The Jeep.



Ignition Coil and associated cleaned and sanded ground wires.



Hand braided extra grounding strap and stripped metal ground area.



Whistle-clean alternator. Notice my oil dipstick handle is broken off. I punched it off on accident today.



New ECM/BCM.



Fuse block. Two taken out from the left side, and the A/C clutch relay removed.

(just clicked on the files for full size... blah! I uploaded them 800x600. Sorry!)

Last edited by Auger; 11-11-2015 at 07:46 AM. Reason: Pic sizes
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Old 11-11-2015, 03:57 AM
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Hi Auger, there is a fuse box on passenger side´s kick panel, in this fuse box there are 3 harnesses that provides electrical power to the engine, i used to had an issue like yours and the culprit was a shortcut behind those harnesses, good luck and i hope this could help.
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:40 AM
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So the kick panel could be shorting out near/at the 3 wire harnesses down there?

My kick panel has always had guts leaking down that side (wires hanging out) but I never thought to do anything other than check the fuses. I will look after work today.

Thanks!
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Old 11-14-2015, 11:38 PM
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I checked the kick panel fuses but didn't find any on preliminary check. I ran out of light and couldn't check any further and will have to get to that tomorrow.

I changed my Crankshaft position sensor with a new Airtex brand one. Upon first startup it was chuggy and puffy but it straightened out. When I pressed the gas, at first the engine bogged down and the RPMs decreased. After letting it sit again it idled at about 1000rpm. I pressed the pedal and let it go to 2500rpm for 5 seconds and let it go back to idle and it decreased to 800rpm, eventually to 500rpm.

After idling for 10 minutes the rpm did not go lower than 500. Tomorrow morning I am going to check my battery to see if it had discharged any and then give it a test drive. I feel really confident but wary and suspect failure and more work to come.
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Old 11-15-2015, 11:16 AM
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Battery discharged from 12.17v to 12.06v overnight.

With a new CKS it still steadily loses rpm, eventually ending in a stall at about 200-250rpm.

Idle Air Control valve - INSTALLED NOV 4
Crankshaft Position Sensor - INSTALLED NOV 14
Spark Plugs Champion Copper - INSTALLED NOV 14

MAP Sensor - $68.79 Rockauto.com MOPAR part. Ordered.
Bosch Spark Plug Wires - $26.79 Rockauto.com Ordered.
Bosch Upstream O2 Sensor - $24.69 Rockauto.com Ordered.
Bosch Downstream O2 Sensor - $27.79 Rockauto.com Ordered.
Air Intake Charge Temperature Sensor - $15.63 Rockauto.com Ordered.
Throttle Position Sensor - $40.79 Rockauto.com Ordered.

Blah.
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Old 11-15-2015, 01:33 PM
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I had realized that even though I had recently replaced several sensors when I bought the truck, (MAP, TPS, AICTemp) this has now been 5 years (WOW!) so I should really just change em again anyway. Everything from RockAuto is cheap so I figure I would buy it all in one go.

*shrug* it is feeling pretty hopeless. I want the damn thing to work!
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Old 11-19-2015, 12:16 AM
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I had this same exact problem with my 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee AND again in my 2003 Grand Cherokee. I took it into a Jeep dealer and they raked me over coals and eventually I had paid a couple thousand bucks for them to replace things that weren't the problem. My Jeep kept dying. Eventually, last, they replaced the CPU (or PCM I can't remember what it's called). It is basically the computer of the Jeep. It is about the size of a large piece of bread and it's silver metal. My Jeep no longer dies, problem solved. The CPU I purchased was a used one off another Jeep from a scrap yard and it's still going strong 6 years later. So if I was you, and I was having this exact problem, I would START with replacing the PCM computer FIRST. Good luck.
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Old 11-20-2015, 11:49 AM
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Ecu is bad. Happened to me a month ago on my 89 Cherokee and a year ago on my dads 95 grand Cherokee. Have someone check the Ecu to double check that's the problem. If it is you should go to a scrap yard and pick on up from a jeep there. My dad had to get 3 different remanufactured ecu's until he got one that finally worked. My mechanic sold me the ecu on his 89 Cherokee and it's running pretty damn well again.
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Old 11-20-2015, 03:48 PM
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I dont wanna say what I paid for my ECU before I knew about rockauto. But it is new... what is the likelihood the NEW ecu is bad? You can see in the pic it is shiny and looks nice. All of my plugs are inserted fully and held up with extra shims.

Damn that thing was expensive.

At rockauto they are $209 which is way better than the price I paid. At the junkyard its a drive for me plus $34 per "Brain Box" and who knows the state they might be in. I looked at the Jeeps out there maybe 4 months ago and there were 17 all with more than 180k on them.

Last edited by Auger; 11-20-2015 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 11-21-2015, 01:18 AM
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Also, I have fixed the connectors but I haven't tried to use screws that were shorter length to see if it might be shorting out there. I am going to do that tomorrow. Might as well. What about just zip-tying the computer to the firewall with some styrofoam sandwiched in between? Just a couple of extra holes to drill.
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Old 11-21-2015, 03:53 AM
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Try just loosening the PCM cover screws.
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Old 11-21-2015, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by dave1123 View Post
Try just loosening the PCM cover screws.
I'll do it! Free is best.
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