XJeepWerks

>>>There is a shortened version of my thread directly following this paragraph. I wrote the shortened version after I wrote the long version and it should include all the info you need to help me. I just started a new medication this morning for the hereditary depression my entire family suffers from and it has made me EXTREMELY talkative and active; I apologize if that bothers you. Read the section marked "~~~" for more info and my theory as to what the problem is.

I installed a 4.5" RC lift and steering stabilizer, otherwise stock steering and suspension up front. Long story short, the damn track bar will not tighten on the axle mount. The bolt and flag nut are in perfect working condition, the bushing isn't good, but isn't bad enough to cause this amount of play, the hole in the axle mount seems to be perfectly round and straight through, and the sleeve inside the bushing is immaculate. The bolt and flag nut tighten snug but the track bar still has tons of play on the axle mount side. The bolt and flag nut also continuously loosens while driving, needing to be tightened every 10-15 miles of city/country driving and progressively getting worse the more times it is loosened and tightened.



I installed a Rough Country 4.5" Lift with NRC9000 shocks and full rear leaf packs. The installation of this lift called for the Track Bar mount on the axle to be relocated to the right like a half inch or something like that (I don't remember how much I had to move it, but I did it to install specs.) Ever since that install, I haven't been able to get the Track Bar axle mount to fully tighten. I don't know if it was tight before the lift or not, as I didn't check the bar itself for play, but the bolt and flag nut were very tight. The bolt and flag nut seem to tighten snug now, but who really knows if it's tight or just tricking me into thinking its tight, but I don't want to break it as I have with various bolts in the past. (If it's not tightening, something is wrong. NOW I understand and follow this.) The Track Bar bushing is slightly dry rotted and should be replaced, but it isn't bad enough to cause this kind of play. I plan to replace both bushings in the Track Bar in the near future once I can afford to fix whatever else I break in the process. *Skip to the bottom section of this post if you'd like to read a story of one of my worst incidents with breaking something expensive while fixing something cheap and simple.* The hole I drilled in the axle mount doesn’t appear to be messed up at all and it looks as straight as it can be without being machine drilled. The metal sleeve inside the bushing also looks to be in fine working order. No matter what I do, I cannot stop the play in the axle mount side of the track bar and the bolt continues to loosen as I drive (Tightening it every 10-15 miles city and countryside driving.) This loose track bar is contributing to my death wobble which I believe I have narrowed down to be bad upper control arm bushings, (they are pretty badly dry rotted.) and this loose track bar. My death wobble was previously caused by tires that were severely out of round due to my previously tanked alignment, (Yes, they were Goodyear MT/R's.) The combination of these bad tires, the loose track bar, bad upper control arm bushings, my single, at the time, remaining loose wheel bearing, **and believe it or not**, passenger side bad motor mount, and MISSING drivers side motor mount caused the Jeep to be taken off the road until it was repaired. I have since replaced the last original wheel bearing on the Jeep, gotten new, used tires that appear to still be perfectly round with all good belts, and both motor mounts. I had my cousin (Who is a certified military diesel mechanic) check my ball joints and tie rods which all checked out fine. The frame at the steering box brace is not cracked anywhere that I can see and my LCA's are brand new(Less than 500 miles.) With my netted 4.5" of lift, that leaves the two most probable causes of my death wobble to be the loose track bar and the upper control arm bushings; possibly the upper control arms themselves, but I don't really see what could go wrong with them besides obviously visible cracking which is not present. The death wobble has proven itself to be a severe inconvenience in my life, although I have learned to avoid the death wobble for the most part. Before I go and put the time and money into replacing the bushings in the track bar, and to help make the Jeep a little more road friendly while I gather the funds and time, can somebody please inform me as to how I should get this to tighten up?


~~~It almost feels as if the mount itself has been stretched out and is now to wide for the track bar. Now that I think about it, it kind of makes sense. The axle mount is made of some pretty thick stuff, so no matter how much I tighten to bolt, it's not going to pull those sides in far enough to be snug, if at all. Every time I hit a bump the track bar moves within this slack left from the mount. The shock from the track bar moving around so violently loosens the bolt and flag nut. The more the bolt and flag nut are loosened and re-tightened, the more metal wears off of both parts and the looser it becomes. I have no idea how this mount would have gotten stretched out, but I believe this theory makes sense, and if it is in fact true, how would I go about fixing it without major tools and experience and remaining on a tight budget so I can fix it before things become much worse?




*I have learned the hard way MULTIPLE times not to do anything to the Jeep without sufficient funds to replace or temporarily fix whatever is bound to break; I couldn't even replace my motor mounts without my dad accidentally puncturing a hole in my oil filter causing all of my oil to drain out while driving to work the next day and severely damaging the motor before I heard the valves tapping and shut it off.) In case you are wondering, this incident made a HUGE mess. Covered the entire engine compartment, my undercarriage, the quarter panels, the rear hatch, and all four inner fender wells with oil. I also feel the need to mention the 12" wide oil line leading from my driveway to about a half mile from my work when I heard it tapping and pulled over to shut it off. The Jeep is cursed to always be a pain in the #$% for anybody that works on it, but it's my baby and I absolutely love her, for some unknown reason.*

**As I see it, the motor mounts being bad and missing allowed the motor to shift when hitting bumps and taking sharp turns. The added force of the 515lb motor (Yes, the Inline 6 242 is only 19lbs lighter than a Chevy 350) rocking back and forth made the front end sway which then started to throw the body around over the axle causing the entire front end to be unstable, helping to cause my unbearable death wobble, or at least make it much worse. The motor rocked so violently when this happened, the engine often shut off, making it extremely difficult to bring the Jeep to a stop to end the death wobble.**


Please note, I do in fact know the difference between death wobble and vibrations. The Jeep has its vibes which, at this time, do not bother me the slightest. The death wobble however is absolutely nerve wrecking. I once purposely hit a bump on an empty road I travel daily that I knew would cause the Jeep to start death wobble so I could watch what happens since I have never personally seen death wobble before. Doing this was one of the worst, yet best ideas I’ve had yet with this Jeep. I consider that decision to be one of my worst because it was absolutely horrid and downright terrifying to watch and see how far and how violently the entire front assembly kicks back and forth on my own vehicle. My front tires kick back and forth from full lock to full lock with the Jeep travelling at a mere 25mph. No wonder I snapped a front hub assembly. I could not possibly imagine what this rig would do hitting death wobble at highway speeds. This was one of my best decisions I’ve made because it made me realize just how dangerous and serious death wobble really is. I'm the type of person that will continue to drive their car to work with a known broken part, just because I can't afford to replace it at the time and need to go to work to get that money to replace it. I am however a firefighter and am considerate of other people when making these decisions, trying not to risk anybody else’s life in the process. If I would have known how serious my death wobble was, I would have parked it the very first time it happened until I could repair it. But anyway, viewing this first hand scared me half to death, making me not want to drive the Jeep over 5mph even to get it into the driveway and made me realize death wobble is by no means a joking matter. It's truly amazing what even a 2,000lb compact car can do at 5mph, much less a 94% steel tank of a Jeep, which is something everybody should be shown early enough in their life that it sticks with them. I wouldn't wish death wobble on even my worst enemy; it's an absolutely terrifying and very easily a deadly experience. (If it weren't deadly I would try to make it mandatory for state drivers license tests, just so these new teen drivers realize just how important it is to pay full attention while driving and maintain full control of their vehicle. I am currently 18 and can admit that I took the responsibility and true power of driving a vehicle for granted when I first got my license. Nobody ever really shows you how deadly a vehicle can be until it's already too late. I wish somebody could have showed me the true power of operating a vehicle BEFORE I wrecked my car illegally street racing. (Ask for the story through pm if you wish. I rolled my '89 Vw Gti over a half mile when I blew a tire doing at least 140 on a back road. Thankfully left that life experience only needing to have my knees operated on and nobody seriously hurt.) ANYWAY... The day I watched my Jeep experiencing death wobble was the day I took it off the road until I could do enough repairs to it to feel safe driving it on public roads again. This was the same day I snapped the driver’s side wheel bearing/hub assembly in half, almost losing that wheel while driving it home to park it. That wheel bearing, at the time, being the most recently replaced with a brand new Timken unit with less than 1000 miles on it. Thank everything that is holy they honored the 1-year warranty because I couldn't afford to sink another $120 into this rig at the time. I sent them a couple pieces of the shattered ***** from the bearing and the inner half of the hub assembly (Didn't include the outer because it was unnecessary and reduced shipping weight.) They promptly sent me a new assembly with the phone operator only asking me how the hell I broke it like that out of his own curiosity. The Jeep is still experiencing death wobble, but not as severe and fairly manageable. As long as I don't hit the wrong kind of bump and keep my speed reasonable I can avoid death wobble.


As always with my threads, any input is welcome. Whether you have the same problem and are also looking for an answer, or have an answer/advise for me or others, feel absolutely free to post. Again, I apologize for being so long winded and blabbing so much. Hopefully somebody here finds my blabbing entertaining and my short summaries in the beginning are enough to allow people to help me without needing to read the entire post if they don't want to.

P.S. I have many interesting stories to tell about my Jeep if you are at all interested. A lot of my friends call me Murphy’s Law as a joke; anything that can go wrong will go wrong. That’s the dumbed-down version of Murphy’s Law, but It’s basically my life story in a nutshell. Just Pm me for stories or whatever you want to talk about… I'm also looking for fellow Jeep'ers local to Allentown, Pa to go wheeling with and stuff. I only know one other guy with an Xj and even though I greatly respect him for serving our country in the military, he's a total toolbag.

caged

holy book writing, batman.

i didn't read it all, but check the rubber in the bushing, they tend to ovalize.
also check the hole in the mount to see if it had oblonged.

i have been through many bad days of worn track bar bushings. gone through 3 in one weekend alone. finally had one machined from UHMW.

good luck.

xjoffroad

cliff notes?

kohlers89XJ

can i sparknotes your novel ha j/k but i agree with "caged" check the bushings

superj

maybe you should get a bolt that is has a shorter unthreaded portion and use some thread lock? then you can tighten the bolt down more and the thread lock should keep the nut form coming loose

XJeepWerks

Here is the shortened version of my first post. I stated in the first paragraph where to find the information needed. I appreciate the replies I have gotten, but they haven't necessarily answered the question. I have already checked the bushings and stated their condition.

I installed a 4.5" RC lift and steering stabilizer, otherwise stock steering and suspension up front. Long story short, the damn track bar will not tighten on the axle mount. The bolt and flag nut are in perfect working condition, the bushing isn't good, but isn't bad enough to cause this amount of play, the hole in the axle mount seems to be perfectly round and straight through, and the sleeve inside the bushing is immaculate. The bolt and flag nut tighten snug but the track bar still has tons of play on the axle mount side. The bolt and flag nut also continuously loosens while driving, needing to be tightened every 10-15 miles of city/country driving and progressively getting worse the more times it is loosened and tightened.

It almost feels as if the mount itself has been stretched out and is now to wide for the track bar. Now that I think about it, it kind of makes sense. The axle mount is made of some pretty thick stuff, so no matter how much I tighten to bolt, it's not going to pull those sides in far enough to be snug, if at all. Every time I hit a bump the track bar moves within this slack left from the mount. The shock from the track bar moving around so violently loosens the bolt and flag nut. The more the bolt and flag nut are loosened and re-tightened, the more metal wears off of both parts and the looser it becomes. I have no idea how this mount would have gotten stretched out, but I believe this theory makes sense, and if it is in fact true, how would I go about fixing it without major tools and experience and remaining on a tight budget so I can fix it before things become much worse?

UPDATE: I pulled the track bar to get a better look at it this morning. I think my theory of the stretched out axle mount is correct. With the track bar installed into the mount, their is a considerable gap between the walls of the mount and the track bar itself. The trackbar is able to slide on the bolt in between the walls of the mount. I have the bolt tightened down to the point I'm fearful of breaking it as I have with numerous Jeep bolts in the past. Has this mount doing this been heard of before? Is it common?

caged

it is common if the bolt becomes loose and the jeep experiences death wobble. the force put on that bolt from the movement of the trackbar will definitely destroy that hole.

you could weld on a washer to give yourself a new clean bolting surface, or simply cut and weld on a new bracket. if you're gonna go the latter, maybe upgrade to a relocated trackbar bracket. which is what i would do. or look into an axle swap sooner than later...

XJeepWerks

The hole is still perfectly round. The problem I have is that the space where the track bar sits in between the sides of the mount has been stretched out because of death wobble. In other words, the space where the track bar sits in the mount was this big... (bolt)|--|(Flagnut) and now Its this big... (bolt)|---|(Flagnut). The | being the walls of the mount and the dashes being the space inbetween them where the track bar sits. There is a considerable gap in between the track bar and the walls of the mount.

aussie-troll

I have been having the same problem with my jeep now days. I noticed that this is an old thread, but wondering if the issue you had is fixed and if so what did you do to fix you DW???

thanks

XJeepWerks

I have fixed this issue by installing a double shear track bar in the factory axle mount hole.

aussie-troll

So, the double shear TB took care of the extra space in the mounting bracket??

thanks for the reply btw....

XJeepWerks

Switching back to the factory hole took care of that

MountiansRcool

drugs are bad mka