shepW00dD

the shiming thing shouldnt be hard to do but the hack and tap? that really necessary?

JeepCoMJ

now that's just not correct.


you DO NOT need a DPA until 8 or 9", and the ONLY way you should consider using a DPA is if you're also dropping the track bar mount to the equivelant amount of the dpa. this is to ensure that your track bar and drag links remain parallel...thus reducing and ideally eliminating bump-steer.

kilbrethj

thats why i said LIKE 6" of lift. hes looking at 3.5-4.5" of lift. if he was talking about a 6" lift then i would have kept my mouth shut and waited for someone who knows to chime in. i am just going on my experience with my lift. his RC lift may be different than mine.

JeepCoMJ

there is no justification, with any lift brand, to do a drop-pitman arm until roughly 8" of lift. that applies to all jeep coil-sprung solid axled vehicles.

I'm sorry I am maybe razzing you a bit too hard, but I'm sick and tired of WRONG information being posted then people making statements because someone lied to them. it's not cool when someone does all sorts of things they shouldn't have because someone tells them something thats not correct and then they have problems and get huffy when someone finally correctly explains things to them.

just saving from mis-information here.

kilbrethj

ok well i am just saying hes doing a 4.5" lift. NOT OVER THAT!!!! yes you are correct but dont be a pompous ars about it dude. i will let you tell him how to do the hack n tap. wouldn't want to MISS INFORM anybody else while giving them the right answer for THEIR APPLICATION.

JeepCoMJ

sorry man, you posted non-pertinent information that didn't apply to the lift in question nor was it 100% accurate, so I argued it.


hack'n'tap is something I've never done on a non-sealed output np231, but grasp the concept of. only hack'n'tap I've ever done was on a 96 and a 99 np231 and that was pretty much a cake walk. other th an that the only other SYE i have experience with is the actual SYE kit that's in my wheeling mj. so I'll also not offer directions on it, just opinions that it's not hard and is worth it.

kilbrethj

Ok... you can stop talking down to me!! and it does apply to this because if you read the whole thread you'd see that a guy in the beggining told him he needed extended brake lines, a beefier steering stabalizer and a drop pitman arm and i told him he didn't need any of that stuff!! if you paid attention to all that was said you'd see that i answered ALL the questions CORRECT FOR THE APPLICATION!!! so just shut your mouth and stop talking smack!! the information i gave was perfectly fine!! you just have nothing better to do then to bag on other people. shepwoodd asked specific questions for help on a 4.5" RC lift and i gave him the info he needed!! because i just did that excact lift 6 months ago.

JeepCoMJ

*sigh* don't get so defensive, I'm not trying to say your an idiot, just trying to correct the small piece of incorrect information that you put in this thread. how about we get back on topic

89whiteXJ

You Should just order there 6.5 lift with the control arm drop down brackets. That is what I did. I ordered straight from RC on the phone and got them to give me free shipping. I paid I think 1100 or 1200. I install myself. It comes with everything. Shocks, upper and lower adj. control arms, trac bar and the drop pitman arm. I used the Trans 1" drop spacers and did not need an SYE. I have an 89 with 33" tires with no trimming. I am starting to trim it up now. Maybe one day I will move to 35".

JeepCoMJ

toss the DPA it will give you bump-steer. or drop the trackbar mount accordingly. you install it, it will try and steer itself after every single bump, unless you're very very lucky.

that said, I'd just go with a bigger lift right off the bat. I've gone through several stages and it never was enough.

sv41878

Sorry totally disagree, extended brake lines and a drop down pitman arm are needed after 3.5 inches, a performance steering stabilizer, no matter how much you lift, is always a good idea since Jeeps are notoriously sh@@ty and an SYE is a necessity at that height. But what do I know I've only been building Jeeps for 15 years or so. You got lucky not needing it, that's all. I've had jeeps not need mods at 4.5, I've had jeeps need mods at 3. It all depends, take 2 of the same Jeep, do the exact same sh$$ to them and you will end up with 2 different results.

JeepCoMJ

replacement longer brake lines (extended brake lines are more prone to failure) are needed around 3" or more but you can get away with stock up to 4.5" if you drop them down. drop pitman arm after 7+" no less. anyone who thinks otherwise is just plain wrong, has no idea what they are talking about.

maybe I'm being cocky or a dick, but I studied geometry pretty darn well and I can tell you for fact that if the track bar and drag link are not as close to perfectly parallel to each other, you will have bump-steer.

SYE is not necessary until 4.5" or more however as you've said it will vary by jeep to reduce driveline issues. I recommend one, like above, at 3.5" of lift for convenience in trail failure (damaging driveshafts but you can still drive) and to put your mind at ease about not blowing through u-joints.

bryanboonern

Can someone point me to where I can find more info about the hack n tap SYE?

sv41878

K geometry. Lets talk about it real quick and how it fits into Jeeps. Track bar keeps the front end centered. Correct? OK now it's mounted to the frame on one side only. Correct? And stock from the factory it's the correct length to keep the axle centered at stock height. Correct? Alright this is all understood and if you answered no to any of those, grab a BFH and just hit yourself in the head.
Now lets talk about what happens when your push the axle that is secured to the frame on one side away from it's original position. My 5 year old could tell you that by using something stock length and pushing further down will cause it to change its center. Thus the need for an adjustable track bar or track bar relocation. Once you do this, geometry kicks in, cuz not nothing else that is stock is parallel anymore (This is where your right). Hence the reason for a drop down pitman arm, it's meant to stressed at one angle +/- about 5 degree's. By not changing the pitman arm and running a stock pitman arm on a 4.5 lift, you have changed the angle by 10-15 degrees. You might get away with it, you might not, I personally don't like gambling with my steering cuz well it's needed.

The moral of the story, yeah I think your being cocky or a dick and that little geometry comment kinda defeated your own point. The man asked what he would need for the lift, as you should know, we all have different preferences and experiences. I'm not gonna say your wrong, your speaking from personal experience, but so am I. My experience is most likely more comprehensive than yours, since anyone who knows Jeeps won't belittle anyone elses opinion since they all behave differently. How much do you wanna bet you don't hold any ASE certifications, let alone one for suspension. And I'm not saying I'm a known everything, can't learn nothing from somebody else kind of mechanic, I know I can, I just know that to keep the steering parallel to the drag link and track bar after relocation, you have to move the pitman arm too.

I give though, you guys steer him wrong, shepwood, when it doesn't feel right, drop the pitman arm down and it will correct it. As for brake lines, when one snaps off at full flex, it's cuz they are too short.

kilbrethj

sv41878 have you not been reading the conversation between me and jeepcomj? we already disgussed every fascet of a 4.5" lift and what is needed and what is not. lol you can use the brake line extension brackets that come in the lift but they will make them weeker BUT if your not wheeling hard like me (in college) then the stocks will hold up. DPA is not neaded till like over 7 inches. stock steering stabalizer is fine. SYE may or may not be needed. i think there is a guy on here with like a 6.5" lift and he hasn't done a SYE yet because he doesn't have any issues. I would do it cause more than likely you will need it. I used the kit from iron rock offroad. people tried to scare me away from using thier refurbished driveshaft so i bought it anyway and it works amazing!! they replaced all u joints. no vibs now!!

Just search for the hack n tap. There was a really good writeup about it on here that i used when i did mine. basically is said when your ready to cut the output shaft to turn on the jeep and put it in reverse then just use your cut off disk like a laith and stick it on the spinning output shaft. i did that and it worked good. i was a little sketched out about it spinning but it wasn't bad once you get going.