mkawski

I have a 2.5L 4 cylinder 1985 Cherokee
Been having lots of problems, posted a while ago but didn't get the issues resolved. Maybe someone can help me diagnose and fix these issues, I'm really trying to avoid taking it to a shop because I don't have all the money right now and would love to learn how to fix things on my own anyways.
So far the things I have fixed myself (with some help) are:

• replaced clutch master cylinder and bled system(2 person bleed)
• replaced serpentine belt
• replaced water pump, fan clutch
• flushed cooling system, had tap water in before and was all junked up
• put in a new transmission bell housing cover plate
• attempted to bleed brakes on own, not sure if it worked 100%??

Just for comparison, so you know my experience with cars. This is my first car, so I'm pretty new to it all and figuring things out. Please try to avoid slang if possible, and over-explain rather than under-explain. I also have a hard time finding parts, so if you could also point out locations that would be great. Appreciate the help!!

So here are the issues:


1. starting problems - once in a while the Jeep won't start at all, usually after I drove it a short distance. the engine turning over sound will gradually get slower and slower (battery dying probably with each attempt?). The first time this happened I parked my car in a lot for 4 hours, came back, it started fine. The second time (yesterday), I couldn't leave it for that long so I just had to get it towed.
I'm guessing this is the carburetor not being adjusted, and flooding? I don't know too much about this, correct me if I'm way off.
Also usually I have to pump the gas a bunch of times while starting, and it takes 3-4 times typically to start the car. I thought this was probably my fuel pump, and was going to replace it. Stupid question, but I can't find my fuel pump. Where should I look for it?? Any advice on replacing fuel pumps?
Also was going to replace the fuel filter while I'm at it, advice for that as well?

2.
Other huge problem lately is that there is a significant exhaust leak, my car sounds like a dirt bike when I accelerate it gets louder. Pretty sure it is the exhaust manifold gasket, but again not sure. Is this a simple fix, or would you recommend taking it to a shop for this? I read mixed advice, some say the bolts will snap easily and isn't worth it to try on own.

3.
Missing a tube from my air cleaner? Not sure if this is contributing to the carburetor/led to an exhaust issue? I don't think it is exactly a "cold air intake" but there are 2 photos attached
Blue circle - intake to air cleaner
Red circle - is there supposed to be a vacuum line or something here??

4.
My e-brake doesn't quite hold. I read that you can just tighten it by twisting a nut, but wasn't quite clear. Any extra tips for this? Torque specifications?

5. Recently noticed some new coolant leak below my air cleaner, haven't looked into it too much, but it was steaming and hissing after driving a bit and the leaking fluid appeared to be coolant.

6. The power steering started whining significantly. Not sure if its just a fluid issue, or compounded from the several other issues.

So yeah if you have any advice on where to find parts, about difficulty/ease of specific repairs, or any other general advice please let me know. Any help is greatly appreciated!

I got a job in Oregon for the summer, so ideally I could fix this all in the next month and drive up from Arizona. I'm skeptical right now because problems keep popping up, so I'd like to see if I could get it to be reliable before then.

Radi

Is the pedal spongy or firm? Does it sink when you hold pressure on it?

Looks like you are doing just fine so far!

If I need to explain something further or provide pics, just ask. Plenty of good folks here willing to help.
Parts: local parts stores should have much of what you need. Rockauto.com is also good with hard to find items.
What in particular did you have trouble finding?


How's the battery, cables and clamps? That's the usual place to start with slow crank/starting problems.

Do this after the Jeep has sat for several hours. Engine off.
Take the cover off the air cleaner and look down the barrel of the carb while you operate the accelerator linkage (or have someone step on the gas).
Do you see a squirt of fuel from the accelerator pump when the accelerator is depressed?
If not the bowl is empty and you have a leaky needle valve/bad float in the carb, or failing fuel pump that's draining back and siphoning the bowl dry.
Rebuild kits for the carb and replacement fuel pumps are still available.

I believe you have a mechanical pump, attached to the block near the distributor. Follow the steel fuel line from the filter, it'll lead you right to the pump. Not difficult to change, just remove the fuel lines and mounting bolts and swap the new pump in.

Well, pic of what it looks like below:
I see it in your pic right next to your power steering pump.
Some of these three-port fuel filters have to have the "return" port at the 12-o'clock position (on the top), else they'll allow fuel to drain back and give you hard starts. I"m not sure if that's the case with yours, '85 is a beast I've never worked on... but worth checking.





Plenty of penetrating oil and patience. Work them back and forth a little bit at a time, then soak them again and repeat.

Red: looks like where the air hose on the rear of the valve cover should attach. It brings filtered air into the engine for the PCV/CCV ( metal valve in the front valve cover air hose) to suck out and burn.

Blue: connects the air cleaner snorkel to the air intake behind the grille. Allows the engine to suck in cooler air instead of hot air under the hood. . Runs better with it, but OK without it.


First- the rear brakes need to be properly adjusted. They generally are if you don't have excessive pedal travel before the brakes operate.
Assuming that's the case, underneath the Jeep, where the parking brake handle is, you'll see a long threaded rod with two nuts that's attached to the brake cables. Loosen the jam nut and tighten the other to tighten the parking brake .
There is no torque spec, it's tightened until the parking brake starts to grab after a certain number of clicks of the lever. I want to say 3, but don't hold me to it.

There's a heater hose that runs alongside the valve cover, under the air cleaner. I'd start looking around there.

Is it low on fluid? Or is the fluid black and burned-smelling? Whining is generally: Air in the fluid, worn out fluid, or a worn out pump.
You can purge air by turning the steering wheel from lock to lock several times.


Pretty normal for a 31 year old vehicle. First make sure the basic systems all work properly and tune them up as necessary: Brakes, steering components, cooling system, fuel, spark.
Change all your fluids, grease what you can, listen for squeaks and grinds from the u-joints and wheel bearings and replace as necessary. Check the tie rod ends and suspension for excess play. Get all that stuff up to snuff and you'll be in pretty good shape.

Oswalla

Just curious if you inspected cap and rotor, spark plugs and spark plug wires. You will have a hard time diagnosing anything if the basics are not in good shape. The fuel filter in pic looks pretty new ?

When it is running, how does it perform ? Does it idle fine, accelerate without hesitation. Carburetor or manual fuel pump issues are not usually intermittent. Meaning, it will not usually cause no start problems and run/idle fine after it is running. Choke issues can make it hard to start when cold outside, but will run fine after warm. If you plan on keeping the rig, a good book for the carb is a good idea. Carb work is becoming a lost art, hard to find a shop that can actually work with carbs where I am at.

Some parts will be hard to find given the year. That's where a good u-pull-it wrecking yard is essential in keep your rig running. Like your air filter housing piece that's missing, junkyard only you will not find a new replacement. To add, that will not cause your problems.

Exhaust leak, make a poor mans stethoscope with a long piece vacuum hose. Put hose to ear to pin point the sound. Hot parts and moving parts use caution.

mkawski

It is a bit spongy. Honestly I drove it for a while after I started noticing the issue, that I don't remember the baseline, but I think it was a bit firmer. I might try to bleed again but using 2 people this time for a real bleed.

Tried to take my battery to the shop to get it charged, they said it was toast so I actually got a new one. Also replaced the negative battery cable. I'll see if this makes a difference.

What do you mean "operate the accelerator linkage" and where could I identify the accelerator pump?



Yeah I actually found these in my manual, the blue is a "Ambient Air Duct" #7. Also realized #6 Heated Air Hose is missing as well, explains possibly why the heater isn't getting hot.. Still can't find anything OEM or equivalent on parts stores, junkyards, or local shops. Not sure what I could use instead?

I tried this a bit, neither nut would budge. The jam nut is the one that is farther out right? So you'd loosen the outer one, tigthen the inner (closer one), and then tighten again? It was difficult to turn, the entire cable mechanism moved and I didn't want to damage it. Might just be stuck, but any advice?

Is it low on fluid? Or is the fluid black and burned-smelling? Whining is generally: Air in the fluid, worn out fluid, or a worn out pump.
You can purge air by turning the steering wheel from lock to lock several times.
[/QUOTE]
I opened the power steering pump to find it COMPLETELY EMPTY. Not sure if this means there was a leak, or just "ran out" of fluid over time? Planning to fill it up and then have a friend turn the wheel while I look for a leak at the pump.

Thanks for the advice!

mkawski

No not really because I wouldn't exactly know what to look for with cap and rotor.
When I first drive it, the idle is rough. I have to give it gas at the start quite a bit or it starts to die out at a stop sign in the first few blocks. After a bit though it runs fine, yes accelerates without hesitation. I mean its a 2.slow (2.5L) so the acceleration isn't incredible or anything.
Any good recommendations for carburetor books?
Been checking junkyards, just tough to find parts for a 2.5L.. Will keep looking though.

Thanks!

Radi

If you remove the air cleaner and use a screwdriver to hold the choke plate open, you can look down the throat of the carb. When someone steps on the gas pedal you should see a squirt of gasoline in there.
"operate the accelerator linkage"- i just meant you can move the linkage by hand instead of having a second person step on the accelerator.


That air duct has nothing to do with your heater. You're probably stuck finding one at a salvage yard, or you can leave it off. It isn't critical.

Sounds like you are doing it right but it's just stuck. Perhaps soaking things with penetrating oil for a while will help.

You might have a look at this, I think it's the same Carter carb you have. I'm not that familiar with the early XJ's, so hopefully it looks familiar:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Fix-...eep-cj-7-or-w/

cruiser54

A VERY common problem with those carburetors is the upper part came loose from the base.

If that's the case, the carb needs to be removed and rebuilt.

mkawski

Hey so I took my Jeep in to the shop to get looked at for the noise and the non-starting issue. $200 of diagnostics later, they told me that a rough estimate would be $1700 for a repair. I didn't quite understand all the details, but here is a basic summary of what they said:
The noise seems to be coming from inside the cylinder head.
It could be stuck exhaust valve in head, or could be cracked exhaust manifold but that would be a lesser issue.
They would need to remove the cylinder head, and send it to machine shop to check it out/
The shop could check the head for cracks and recondition, would cost $350.
The shop would also be able to check manifold at that point.
The labor to remove cylinder head runs at $715, also adding in labor costs for checking/replacing gaskets.
Would also replace upper and lower radiator hoses and thermostat, spark plugs, oil change
Rough estimate: $1700 and a week of work

So I bought the Jeep for $2500, and already put in a bit of money and work into it (replaced clutch master cylinder, water pump, flushed cooling system, replaced some coolant hoses, worked on brakes, new mud tires).

Looking for advice on how to go forward.
1. Try to sell my Jeep and buy a more reliable, newer one? Not sure how much it would sell for now, as it is running pretty roughly (loud noises and doesn't always start). It's been a bit difficult to figure out working on a 2.5L and finding parts for an older 2.5L Jeep, a 4.0L might be easier to do repairs on?
2. Pay the shop to do the work, for a hella lot of money.
3. Buy a new cylinder head ($340-450) and replace it myself, hope that is the only issue. And also hope that I can figure out how to replace a cylinder head myself with my limited experience.

DFlintstone

My carbourated 2.5 is gutless. Gotta shift down into third and floorboard it just to aim for 45 Mph to be legal on the highway without a "Slow vehicle" triangle on the rear. I do carry tools and there are 7% grades on HwY 101. Not to diss a well made engine for maybe off-road or something, but the fuel injected 4.0 skunks it. Will push you back in your seat, and get better or same MPG. The 4.0 rocks!


PS...like Cruiser said, indeed the carburetor came apart, at least once.

Oswalla

I wouldn't give up yet from one mechanics opinion. One example of many I experienced first hand. My cherokee was a family friends. Her trusted mechanic she had gone to for years said her tranny was toast, $1500 to rebuild. Pretty much the value of the jeep, so she asked me if I would give her $500 for it. I never had a jeep so it sounded easy enough for a $200 junkyard tranny and I had a toy. Research on the forums suggested a $40 sensor. Haven't had one problem with tranny since replacing the sensor.

You said you wanted to learn yourself, honestly, you will have to if you own a cherokee. Or pay $1700 every time a mechanic ask you to. That's where the forum comes into play. Google images for parts or tool identification is helpful, Youtube has tons of vids.

Did the mechanic even do a compression test for $200 ? A compression test will give a good indication of bad internal engine components. You can rent or buy a compression tester yourself. Plenty of you tube videos to explain procedure. Post results of each cylinder.


As far as I can tell you still haven't done a basic tune up ? Cap n rotor, spark plugs and wires. You have to have a good consistent spark to diagnose fuel system. Troubleshooting is just a process of elimination. Take some pics of plugs and post here once you have them out, you can tell quite a bit from how they look.

You can probably send that carb off to be rebuilt for less than $300. If you can pin point thats the problem. Carb repair is a dieing art form, very hard to find local rebuilders. You can do it yourself with some internet research though.

Where in Oregon are you moving to ?

mkawski

To near La Grande, OR to work for the forest service!

mkawski

Hey everyone thanks for the advice: here is an update.
I finally gave in and took my car to an AAA Auto Repair shop, they told me that they wanted to check the cylinder head and do a bunch of things for basically $2000 (which is almost what I paid for the car), so I took it up to a family friend for help.

We took it apart, including removing the exhaust manifold, intake manifold, and cylinder head.
We found that the cylinder head was significantly blown and there was also a leak in the exhaust manifold gasket (not sealed all the way). A machine shop inspected my parts and found that my exhaust manifold was okay (resurfaced) and the cylinder head was cracked as well. I replaced the cylinder head and am in the process of putting it all back together, including replacing spark plugs.
Thermostat housing/water outlet also was super corroded, due to previous issue of last owner using tap water in the cooling system, so I am also going to replace the radiator and cooling hoses and water outlet.
Hopefully when it is all back together, we will see if the car starts. The non-start issue might have just been because the exhaust was leaking so significantly and there wasn't enough compression.

Glad to finally have diagnosed it, now just to fix it up and see if it works!


old spark plugs






you can see how badly the head gasket was blown




blown head gasket




the bottom left you can see where on the exhaust manifold where the exhaust had been leaking through the gasket