new brake drum locks up wheel [Solved]
 

hello jeepers,

last summer i had replaced my rear brake pads on my xj 88 including hardware, this all went fine but i knew i had to replace the brake drum and i just did this with a brandnew brake drum. after taking off the old drum i losen up the adjuster so the pads would retrack and this worked fine. now after installing the new drum and the moment of tightening the lug nuts the wheel cannot be turned by hand its really tight.. seems like the tighter the lug nuts go the tigher the wheel is. its still sitting like this right now i moved the jeep back and forth just a few feet but didnt take it for a drive yet.
is this a common problem with brandnew brake drums ? does this have to wear in or is there something wrong ?

[edit] when backing the drum off a tiny bit its not that tight anymore.. seems like but not sure the backing plate that holds the whole brake assembly is too thick ?.. seems like the studs need a washer on each of the five in between the drum and the wheel studs .. could this be right ?? im just guessing here

thanks marc

What model rear axle you have? Maybe the wrong drum.

i have the dana 35c none clip

Have you compared it to the old drum?

i put the old drum on the new drum facing each other with the insides and diameter was the same .. i layed them flat on the carton and both seem to be the same height
i didnt measure the inside but by the looks of it it seems the same except from the part that is worn of course in the old drum

You had no problem until you replaced the old drum so I'd think the problem would be with it. Maybe try the old and new on and see how they compare in reference to the backing plate. Wouldn't happen to have the part # for the new drum?

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...0062&ppt=C0009

its the 9inch one cause i needed the smaller 1 3/4 brake pads not the 2 1/2 .. so i think the 9 inch should be the right one

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...0068&ppt=C0009

these are the brake pads/shoes i put in last summer

According to Rock Auto the only 9" is for the Dana 44. Even the 1 3/4" they list is 10"'

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/j...+hub,drum,1744

And according to O'Rileys using your link they don't offer a 9" drum.

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/se...kee&vi=1179839

here are the picture of the old drum, when i look at the cooling ribs they seem the same as the one i ordered, the rib on the 10 inch look bigger

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.che...71669f008a.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.che...0e6a2b823d.jpg

ive been driving around with the wrong drums for 6 years (this is how i bought the jeep).. hmm .. this is confusing to me as heck

hmm.. i see your link.. so that means i did buy the 10 inch 1 3/4 ones .. then it should be the right drum right ?

[edit] sorry i am so confused.. so both oreilly has the 10 inch 2 1/2 and the 1 3/4 and ive ordered the 10 x 1 3/4 .. there is no 9 inch .. i thought 10 inch is 2 1/2 and 9 inch is for 1 3/4 but i was wrong.. so still i do have the right drum

For some reason O'rileys doesn't list the drum diameter used with the #267 shoes. But they do for the 2.5" wide #481 shoes and it's 10". Same brand to.

Plus the only 9" drum that Rock Auto shows uses 2.5" shoes.

Have you measured the width of those shoes?

Did you get the drum at O'Rileys?

no i didnt meassure the shoes, i had two packages last summer and the smaller ones matched the once that were on the jeep so i returned the bigger shoes.

and yes i bought the drums at oreilly's few days ago.. i only switched one drum cause i am still waiting for a park brake cable for the other drivers side and wanted to do this all at once.

i have to say 'thank you for your quick replies sure appreciate it'

so im not sure if the drivers side will give me the same problem yet.. just wanted to be sure i have to right drum i think they wont take it back if its used or scratched

It's really hard to diagnose a problem when you can't get your hands on it. LOL I'd be trying the old and new drums on with lug nuts but no wheel to see where they each sit in reference to the backing plate and if each still turn. I'd even go so far as to remove the shoes and try them. Just sounds like a mismatch of parts somewhere. Also I wouldn't mess with the drivers side unless it would just be for visual comparison.

Just a thought. Did you replace the wheel cylinders?

that is a very good tip to try without the wheel .. well it is quite dark here now and temperatures are dropping around 32F so i have to give this another try tomorrow again.. i will take the jeep around the block later on tonight when im off my shift and see how that sounds . i hope that goes well.. i will let you know tomorrow again .. taking off the shoes and trying the drum without a wheel should indeed give a total picture of what is wrong .. thanks again ezearl , marc

No problem at all,Marc. Something else to check would be to make sure the wheel cylinder is letting the shoe/shoes go all the way in.

took the jeep for a short ride but sounds horrible drove about 40 feet and parked it back. thinking about it more i will purchase a brandnew set of shoes aswell and do the job right.. i did open the bleeder screw on the wheel cyclinder thinking that would retract the shoes completely, as of now i will put the old drum back on and wait for the parking brake cable to come in and buy the shoes aswell do it all at once.

The return springs (if in good condition) should have no problem retracting the shoes completely. Is the flexible rear brake line collapsed? When you install the brake drum and wheel on the axle and tighten the lug nuts can you spin the tire to see if the drum is jammed up against the backing plate or binding on the brake shoes?

hey,

didnt get to do much yesterday but today i took the new drum off the jeep and noticed scratches in the new drum as you can see in the pictures. ive doubled checked if the brake shoes are retracted and it does seem like it, the adjuster on the bottom of the brake shoes assembly is as lose as it can if i make it any shorter it would just plain fall out so it is a tiny bit unscrewed to make it longer. so clearly it seem like the shoes are rubbing into the new brake drum and for what i see so far not rubbing on the backing plate as i thought before.

now ive put the old drum back on and i had to adjust the adjuster quite a bit to get it just right. so my guess is either the new brake drum is too small or the brake shoes are too thick eventho they are worn a bit already and still rubbing on the new drum..
im not sure where to go from here.

keep in mind i dont have a lot of time to do this and its 25F outthere and i do this quick had no feeling in my thumbs left lol

marc

[edit] the return springs have all been replaced last summer and are in good condition


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.che...1cd635719b.jpg

new drum with scratches from old shoes after 40 feet drive


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.che...46388549a1.jpg

new drum with scratches from old shoes after 40 feet drive


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.che...a60a8bad28.jpg

rear brake drum assembly bottom


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.che...61016c8f03.jpg

rear brake drum assembly top

The adjuster should not fall out fully closed. Either that bottom spring that runs horizontal behind is gone or your ebrake cable is not letting the ebrake arm relax. I had an ebrake cable do that just a while ago, cable was froze and would'nt retract. Either way the adjuster can close all the way and not fall out. Pics are not close enough to see your bottom half setup for me to tell anyways.

Ohh, and get a tape measure out for those drums, only way to know if they're the same.

i see what you mean, that is something i didnt look at yet it sure makes sense
thank you

If they are the right drums then like O says it seems like something is keeping the shoes from retracting all the way.

Note from DJ
Photo of 10in
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.che...7163956d8b.jpg

Comparing DJ's pic to yours, the ebrake arm could go to the left more. Have someone operate ebrake while you watch for function at wheel. The spring looks like it is attached properly.

Attachment 295171

Note from DJ
I think this information is OK
10 inch inside diameter brake drums are fined on the outside and take 10”X 1.75” wide shews.
9 inch inside diameter brake drums are not fined on the outside and take 9”X 2.5” wide shews.

i had a quick peek underneath the jeep today, i see one place to adjust the emergency brake lever right in the middle of the jeep where to two parking brake cables come together, i see a nut that tightens two cables at once. the nut is screwed on there quite a bit so i have enough room to release the tension right there. do i see this right or is there another spot to adjust this ? ... i followed the parking brake cable to the passenger side and it goes in to the backing plate i dont see any other way to adjust this anywhere else. will have to wait till monday now to do this tho.

That's your equalizer and is the only way to adjust the parking brake. I'd PB Blaster that nut and back it off until there is a good bit of slack in the cables. You can then work the cables by hand to check for free movement of the parking brake parts.

Note from DJ
Is this what you discovered?

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.che...c216f29627.png

If so I think you are on the track to success.

Before you try installing the brake drums have a look at how the brake shoes fit around the anchor pin. They need to fit nice and tight like the photo. The reason being there was a problem with some of the 9in shoes where the ark in the shoes was too small which made the shoes too big for the drums; but so far no problem with 10in drums.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.che...d0bfcdf33a.jpg

Please keep us posted if you need more advice, or we hope that you can report all is working OK.

From your pics, it looks like you set up all the springs correctly, and you can see that the shoes are pulled inwards, away from the rotor, so I don't think its an adjustment issue.

The fact that you can fit the brake drum onto the assembly with shoes installed means that the braking surfaces are probably not rubbing too much.

From what you said, it seems like either:

1. The brake drum is rubbing on the backing plate, or
2. More likely, the shoes are too wide for the drum and the inner brake drum non-braking face is rubbing on the outward metal parts of the shoes, the parts that are facing out towards you when the brake drum is off.

What if you remove the shoes and install the brake drum and tighten the lug nuts. Does the wheel turn? If so, its probably not hitting the backing plate. (sorry if i'm repeating something you already did).

It really seems though that the shoes may be a bit too wide. What if you cover the edges of the shoes with marker or paint and then put the drum on, put the wheels on and tighten them to where they bind, but still turn. Turn the wheel a few turns. Then take the drum off and see if any paint rubbed off the edges of the shoes - that's where they are rubbing.

You might just need new shoes - but narrower than you have now, or a wider drum. You could just bring your parts to Oreilly's and compare them to what they have, for both drums and shoes.

It may not be obvious just comparing visually - it seems like your shoes or drum may just be off by a millimeter or so.

i'll give a little update..

today finally got the new emergency brake cable that took 10 days.. silly enough i didnt pre-order the new brake shoes thinking they would have that in stock but they dont in the whole state of alaska not one oreilly has a set of rear brake drum shoes..

anyway.. tomorrow autozone they seem to have one set laying around.. and i have noticed the 'parking brake strud bar spring' has broken and since i want to do this all in one try im going to have to get these new aswell, im thinking napa probably should have those in stock (i hope)

https://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/UBP80465/UBP80465

those ones.. im not 100% if these are a must or just an anti rattle spring but i might aswell change that while im in there

Note from DJ
I’m glad that you haven’t forgot us

no i havent LOL

i do like solved issues on forums so i will post as soon i get something done

i really do appreciate the help im getting from the people on this forum

I vote for the classic rusted parking brake cables.

ok got all the parts i need :)
next few days should get something done

Note from DJ
We hope that it’s good news!

alright here we go, got the brandnew shoes on and brandnew drum .. i loosen up the parking brake cable to give it more slack and indeed the shoes retracted a tiny bit more and the adjuster doesnt fall out anymore so that looks good, after putting the drum on and the wheel and tightening the lugnuts the wheels is not locked up anymore but..

when i spin the wheel it almost makes a full turn and then rubs on something erm not sure how to explane this but like the wheel spins freely from 1 till 10 o'clock and from 11 to 12 it rubs on something.. it is not much but i dont understand why

marc

[edit] also i bought brandnew lugnuts which fit perfectly and look nice and shinny

Note from DJ
Just a wild shot but if you still have the Jeep on jack stands try starting up the Jeep, now place it in drive the apply the brakes a few times; this will center the shoes then see if problem has gone away.

NOTE you may need to re-adjust the adjusters in order to get good pedal.

Hope this helps.

problem solved i guess i could say :)

i drove the jeep last night for a couple of miles, the rubbing lasted about 1/2 a mile and went away eventually so seem like you are right after pressing the brake pedal a few times while driving the shoes centered somehow, its rain and snow now here and ive only done the passenger side so far when/if it clears up i will do the drivers side and see how that goes. thanks guys for the help and suggestions i sure appreciate it and makes finding a problem so much easier :)

thanks marc

and also yes djgrayxj i will double check that adjuster to fine tune it a bit tighter

Note from DJ
Glad to hear of the successful progress to this point.
It is probably not a good idea to drive the Jeep as is; because the rear brakes will react differently which might cause a spin out!