Need Help With a Few Things
#1
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Leonard, MD
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L I6
Need Help With a Few Things
Little background: I just moved to MD from FL and needed a vehicle to get me through the winter days where taking my DD sports car is a bad idea. I ended up buying a 2000 4door 4x4 Cherokee Sport 4.0L I6 last week with 167k miles on it. This forum has already been great with helping me do some maintenance but now I have a few issues that I can't answer for sure with the search function.
After the car warms up, the oil pressure gage goes to zero when at a stop and is in the 20-50 psi range when under throttle or just cruising. I had read to clear the oil galley by removing the sending unit and attempting to crank the car but not allowing it to start. Couple issues here though, I'm having trouble getting the connector off the sending unit, I can slide the red retainer but the part you would push down to release the connector broke off and the thing wont budge. Also, I couldn't find a way to not allow the car to start. I pulled the connectors to and from what appear to be the fuel rail but it still started.
So I decided to change the oil and see if that helped at all. It was pretty thick and dark. New oil and filter and the problem is still there. And today I was flushing the radiator and when getting the engine hot to circulate the coolant eventually the oil started to overheat and some vapor was coming from the oil filler cap. This worries me since I was actually driving the car at this point just cruising at 50mph and outside temp was about 55*F and didn't expect it to be an issue. I had been driving it a little harder earlier when bedding my new pads and rotors and no issue then.
Any input on possible issues and solutions would be awesome, as well as any advice on best way to get the sending unit out and not have the car start to try to clear that out. Thanks in advance for your help guys!
After the car warms up, the oil pressure gage goes to zero when at a stop and is in the 20-50 psi range when under throttle or just cruising. I had read to clear the oil galley by removing the sending unit and attempting to crank the car but not allowing it to start. Couple issues here though, I'm having trouble getting the connector off the sending unit, I can slide the red retainer but the part you would push down to release the connector broke off and the thing wont budge. Also, I couldn't find a way to not allow the car to start. I pulled the connectors to and from what appear to be the fuel rail but it still started.
So I decided to change the oil and see if that helped at all. It was pretty thick and dark. New oil and filter and the problem is still there. And today I was flushing the radiator and when getting the engine hot to circulate the coolant eventually the oil started to overheat and some vapor was coming from the oil filler cap. This worries me since I was actually driving the car at this point just cruising at 50mph and outside temp was about 55*F and didn't expect it to be an issue. I had been driving it a little harder earlier when bedding my new pads and rotors and no issue then.
Any input on possible issues and solutions would be awesome, as well as any advice on best way to get the sending unit out and not have the car start to try to clear that out. Thanks in advance for your help guys!
#2
Seasoned Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 L
To crank it with out starting it you could simply pull the fuel pump relay.It should be in the fuse block under the hood and the relay location would be printed on the inside of the cover for that fuse block.
As for the sending unit connector, try to use a small flat screw driver to disengage the locking tab.
The other stuff I wont comment much on and will let more experienced members help you with. Sounds bad to me though maybe head gasket or something.
BTW after pulling the fuel pump relay the vehicle may start due to remaining fuel in the line but it will stall once that fuel is used up and will not start again until you reinstall they relay.
As for the sending unit connector, try to use a small flat screw driver to disengage the locking tab.
The other stuff I wont comment much on and will let more experienced members help you with. Sounds bad to me though maybe head gasket or something.
BTW after pulling the fuel pump relay the vehicle may start due to remaining fuel in the line but it will stall once that fuel is used up and will not start again until you reinstall they relay.
Last edited by Spoonman; 11-12-2011 at 02:29 PM.
#3
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Leonard, MD
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L I6
Thanks spoonman I will give that a try tomorrow. I was surprised it started twice after pulling the plug to the injectors and it smelled very lean so I shut it down before risking any damage. I will pull the fuse to the fuel pump and give it a try.
Looking into the oil filler cap should I see oil? I can tell there has been some in there but should it be that high when the engine is cold? Currently there is none.
Looking into the oil filler cap should I see oil? I can tell there has been some in there but should it be that high when the engine is cold? Currently there is none.
Last edited by Mellow_Yellow; 11-12-2011 at 11:52 PM.
#4
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Portersville, Pennsylvania
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Year: 1997 & 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
If you pull the red stop on the clip for the sending unit completely out with needle nose pliers, no biggie. That's what I had to do to get mine off. If the engine sounds good valve wise, it's entirely possible that you have a bad sending unit. That's what happened to my '98 when I had a similar pressure reading issue recently. The only way to know absolutely for sure is to remove the sending unit and use an external gauge with adapter to replace the sending unit to diagnose. Some vapor from the oil when the engine is hot is not that uncommon. At any time if you took off the cap with a hot engine, you'd see some vapor. Overheating the engine would cause some for sure.
Still and all, the '99 and later cylinder heads have been known to be more problematic than the pre '99 models. It's hard to determine if you're issue is more serious or not by remote control from the limited info posted so far.
Still and all, the '99 and later cylinder heads have been known to be more problematic than the pre '99 models. It's hard to determine if you're issue is more serious or not by remote control from the limited info posted so far.
#5
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Leonard, MD
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L I6
Well I was able to get the clip off today and clear the galley but it did not solve the oil pressure at idle issue. So I replaced the oil sending unit. I also replaced the spark plugs and believe I stumbled upon the main problem. There is some oil leaking out of the head gasket. I had mistaken the caked oil for just regular grime as the previous owner didn't keep the engine clean like I do with my cars.
Anyway, that leads me to my next question. I've never taken an engine apart but it looks like maybe 10 bolts or so, move some hoses around, and it'll come right off. However looking online there are 3 "replacement parts" options on Advance Auto's website which range from $20 to $150. So what do you guys recommend. Let me know if there is a better kit that you recommend, I just looked on Advance because there is one local to me. Here are the links to the 3 kits.
$20 http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Head-Gasket-Felpro_15780247-P_100_R%7CGRPGASKAMS_____
$42 http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Head-Gasket-Felpro_20680336-P_100_R%7CGRPGASKAMS_____
$150 http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Head-Gasket-Set-Felpro_15780447-P_101_R%7CGRPGASKAMS_____#fragment-1
And here is a pic of my engine and where the leak is to elaborate where the oil is coming from. It seems to be mainly coming from the passenger side towards the back. I found a little oil on the threads of the rearmost spark plugs.
Thanks again for your input. Please let me know if you have any questions that would help you diagnose my issues.
Btw, the vapor that was coming out of the filler cap the other day was pretty significant, definitely not normal. But today no problems with the oil overheating and I went on a longer drive.
Anyway, that leads me to my next question. I've never taken an engine apart but it looks like maybe 10 bolts or so, move some hoses around, and it'll come right off. However looking online there are 3 "replacement parts" options on Advance Auto's website which range from $20 to $150. So what do you guys recommend. Let me know if there is a better kit that you recommend, I just looked on Advance because there is one local to me. Here are the links to the 3 kits.
$20 http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Head-Gasket-Felpro_15780247-P_100_R%7CGRPGASKAMS_____
$42 http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Head-Gasket-Felpro_20680336-P_100_R%7CGRPGASKAMS_____
$150 http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Head-Gasket-Set-Felpro_15780447-P_101_R%7CGRPGASKAMS_____#fragment-1
And here is a pic of my engine and where the leak is to elaborate where the oil is coming from. It seems to be mainly coming from the passenger side towards the back. I found a little oil on the threads of the rearmost spark plugs.
Thanks again for your input. Please let me know if you have any questions that would help you diagnose my issues.
Btw, the vapor that was coming out of the filler cap the other day was pretty significant, definitely not normal. But today no problems with the oil overheating and I went on a longer drive.
#6
Seasoned Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 L
In the pic, that is not the head gasket that is outlined.That's your valve cover. So you will need a valve cover gasket set in order to seal the oil leak up or RTV sealant.i recommend the valve cover gasket set since it comes with new grommets for the valve cover bolts.
The valve cover gasket change would be very simple as you mentioned.
Before you spend the money on that though you should try to figure out your oil pressure issue.A leaking valve cover is not the cause of it.
The valve cover gasket change would be very simple as you mentioned.
Before you spend the money on that though you should try to figure out your oil pressure issue.A leaking valve cover is not the cause of it.
- See about getting compression readings for all of the cylinders as a start point to diagnose the cause of the problem.
- What does your coolant look like?
- Is it using oil or coolant at all?
#7
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Leonard, MD
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L I6
In the pic, that is not the head gasket that is outlined.That's your valve cover. So you will need a valve cover gasket set in order to seal the oil leak up or RTV sealant.i recommend the valve cover gasket set since it comes with new grommets for the valve cover bolts.
The valve cover gasket change would be very simple as you mentioned.
Before you spend the money on that though you should try to figure out your oil pressure issue.A leaking valve cover is not the cause of it.
The valve cover gasket change would be very simple as you mentioned.
Before you spend the money on that though you should try to figure out your oil pressure issue.A leaking valve cover is not the cause of it.
- See about getting compression readings for all of the cylinders as a start point to diagnose the cause of the problem.
- What does your coolant look like?
- Is it using oil or coolant at all?
Coolant was pretty nasty but I have flushed the radiator and will see how it looks after driving it some. I'll also be able to more accurately say whether it is using oil or coolant at that point. I thought it might have used some coolant as the overflow tank was empty when I bought it but there was still a good amount in the radiator. Unfortunately I probably won't be able to drive it again until Friday. And then after that it will be put on hold for another 10 days while I have family in town.
If the oil pressure at idle issue continues do you think it could possibly be the oil pump?
Trending Topics
#8
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Leonard, MD
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L I6
Well I decided to take it to work today to get some miles on it to try to reevaluate the problem. The oil pressure still drops to zero at idle after it has warmed up, which occurred only 2 or 3 times during my 30 mile commute.
So I guess the next step is to do a compression test. Should I buy a kit and do it myself or take it in to a shop? I'm down for doing it myself just don't know if a $30 kit is good enough or if I need to get something more expensive. Have any of you purchased a kit that you can recommend?
Also keep in mind this is not a DD, just a car for winter and that I will drive about twice a week the rest of the year to ensure she's staying nice and healthy. So I am not going to go spend a few hundred dollars on testing, but a $30 kit is great if it is accurate enough to help diagnose my problem. She feels good when on the road, but the idle is not perfect (but not rough either). I really have nothing to compare it to at this point. If the oil pressure wasn't low I wouldn't even think twice about driving it anywhere. The commute today went great, but I was disappointed to see the oil pressure sitting around 15-20psi when cruising at 60mph and then drop to zero at idle - it does go above 40psi when accelerating though.
So I guess the next step is to do a compression test. Should I buy a kit and do it myself or take it in to a shop? I'm down for doing it myself just don't know if a $30 kit is good enough or if I need to get something more expensive. Have any of you purchased a kit that you can recommend?
Also keep in mind this is not a DD, just a car for winter and that I will drive about twice a week the rest of the year to ensure she's staying nice and healthy. So I am not going to go spend a few hundred dollars on testing, but a $30 kit is great if it is accurate enough to help diagnose my problem. She feels good when on the road, but the idle is not perfect (but not rough either). I really have nothing to compare it to at this point. If the oil pressure wasn't low I wouldn't even think twice about driving it anywhere. The commute today went great, but I was disappointed to see the oil pressure sitting around 15-20psi when cruising at 60mph and then drop to zero at idle - it does go above 40psi when accelerating though.
#9
Seasoned Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 L
You should be able to rent a tester at auto zone you'll just need to pay a deposit which you will get back when you return the tool.
Im not sure if a new oil pump will rectify your situation.Hopefully somebody else will chime in here soon that knows a bit more.
I do know that from reading a lot of similar posts on here that the general over the net diagnosis for what you are describing is usually worn main bearings.Which is usually caused by a blown head gasket or cracked head.That would be the extreme diagnosis though imo.
Did you notice any water in the oil when you changed the oil?the water would have run out of the drain plug first.
By nasty coolant,what do you mean? was it rusty nasty or did it look muddy?
Im not sure if a new oil pump will rectify your situation.Hopefully somebody else will chime in here soon that knows a bit more.
I do know that from reading a lot of similar posts on here that the general over the net diagnosis for what you are describing is usually worn main bearings.Which is usually caused by a blown head gasket or cracked head.That would be the extreme diagnosis though imo.
Did you notice any water in the oil when you changed the oil?the water would have run out of the drain plug first.
By nasty coolant,what do you mean? was it rusty nasty or did it look muddy?
#10
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Leonard, MD
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L I6
You should be able to rent a tester at auto zone you'll just need to pay a deposit which you will get back when you return the tool.
Im not sure if a new oil pump will rectify your situation.Hopefully somebody else will chime in here soon that knows a bit more.
I do know that from reading a lot of similar posts on here that the general over the net diagnosis for what you are describing is usually worn main bearings.Which is usually caused by a blown head gasket or cracked head.That would be the extreme diagnosis though imo.
Did you notice any water in the oil when you changed the oil?the water would have run out of the drain plug first.
By nasty coolant,what do you mean? was it rusty nasty or did it look muddy?
Im not sure if a new oil pump will rectify your situation.Hopefully somebody else will chime in here soon that knows a bit more.
I do know that from reading a lot of similar posts on here that the general over the net diagnosis for what you are describing is usually worn main bearings.Which is usually caused by a blown head gasket or cracked head.That would be the extreme diagnosis though imo.
Did you notice any water in the oil when you changed the oil?the water would have run out of the drain plug first.
By nasty coolant,what do you mean? was it rusty nasty or did it look muddy?
No water in the oil. It was pretty dark and appeared to be a heavier weight than what i put in but no sign of anyything leaking into the oil, only the oil leaking out slightly.
I believe the coolant was just old and probably sitting for awhile, not thick or muddy as if oil had gotten in. It was brownish/red/green maybe? I'm going to drive the car a little more and then flush the system again to see what it looks like then. So far the coolant looks normal after I flushed it, no signs of oil mixing in so far but i've only driven under 100 miles since the flush.
If I have time and am able to get the equipment tonight I might get a chance to do the compression test... assuming I can get someone to lend a hand cranking the engine. If not I'll do it Friday and report back.
#11
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Leonard, MD
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L I6
Well here are the results of the compression test. Unfortunately I did not get a chance to add a little oil and then retest the ones that are a little low. The manual says they should be from 120-150psi.
#1 - 150
#2 - 100
#3 - 110
#4 - 110
#5 - 140
#6 - 150
What are your thoughts? Next step is to remove the valve cover and visually inspect it all since I need to replace the valve cover gasket anyway. The results were better than I expected though. I'm still not sure what is causing the low oil pressure after it warms up.
#1 - 150
#2 - 100
#3 - 110
#4 - 110
#5 - 140
#6 - 150
What are your thoughts? Next step is to remove the valve cover and visually inspect it all since I need to replace the valve cover gasket anyway. The results were better than I expected though. I'm still not sure what is causing the low oil pressure after it warms up.
#13
☠ CF Sheriff ☠
I'm surprised an experienced member didn't see this before me....
You said it's a 2000? 2000/2001 4.0L's have a issue with the heads cracking between cylinders 3 and 4 on the top side, letting coolant into the oil. Most common symptoms are low oil pressure and a visible crack on the top side. You may be able to even see it looking down through the oil fill hole. I would remove the valve cover asap and check it out to be sure (google/search "0331 Head"). Also grab a mechanical oil pressure gauge and verify the readings you are seeing are correct - it's possible the pressure sender just went bad.
Your low compression numbers on 2,3,and 4 worry me as well though that a cracked head is what has occurred...
I don't want to scare you but usually what happens if it occurs and is left unattended is it ends up frying the bearings on the crank and sometimes the cam, resulting in low/zero oil pressure. I would seriously urge you not to drive it until you have this sorted out. Time for some verification!
You said it's a 2000? 2000/2001 4.0L's have a issue with the heads cracking between cylinders 3 and 4 on the top side, letting coolant into the oil. Most common symptoms are low oil pressure and a visible crack on the top side. You may be able to even see it looking down through the oil fill hole. I would remove the valve cover asap and check it out to be sure (google/search "0331 Head"). Also grab a mechanical oil pressure gauge and verify the readings you are seeing are correct - it's possible the pressure sender just went bad.
Your low compression numbers on 2,3,and 4 worry me as well though that a cracked head is what has occurred...
I don't want to scare you but usually what happens if it occurs and is left unattended is it ends up frying the bearings on the crank and sometimes the cam, resulting in low/zero oil pressure. I would seriously urge you not to drive it until you have this sorted out. Time for some verification!
#14
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Leonard, MD
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L I6
I had read about the heads cracking between 2 and 3 on 2000s and this is what I thought the lower compression in 2,3,4 might mean. However my oil looked fine when I changed it, far from milky. I will drain some more again though to see if anything has changed.
When I look through the fill hole I can't see anything but that's because there is oil crud in there that has coated everything. I guess I'll just take the valve cover off to get a better look and maybe be able to post some pics.
What am I looking at if the head is indeed cracked? Tons of $ and time (my time, not taking it to a shop)? Might as well overhaul a majority of the parts while I am in there?
And if I was to drive the car maybe 5 days a month, less than 500 miles total a month, do you think I'd be ok with it long enough to get to spring/summer when I'd have zero required days for the Jeep? It was purchased for days when the Vette won't be good in snow, not sure how many of those days there really are in So MD but from what I've been told is pretty minor.
When I look through the fill hole I can't see anything but that's because there is oil crud in there that has coated everything. I guess I'll just take the valve cover off to get a better look and maybe be able to post some pics.
What am I looking at if the head is indeed cracked? Tons of $ and time (my time, not taking it to a shop)? Might as well overhaul a majority of the parts while I am in there?
And if I was to drive the car maybe 5 days a month, less than 500 miles total a month, do you think I'd be ok with it long enough to get to spring/summer when I'd have zero required days for the Jeep? It was purchased for days when the Vette won't be good in snow, not sure how many of those days there really are in So MD but from what I've been told is pretty minor.
#15
Seasoned Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 L
If you think the head is cracked I would not drive it at all or you will cause more damage which will cost you even more $$ down the line as well as taking the risk of being stranded.
If the main bearings are shot then Im not sure but I think??? you can change them with the engine in the vehicle.I am not positive about that though and of course that would also depend on the condition of the crank.
The head it self isnt that hard to swap out. If your head is cracked you would need to find a new or jy head. I picked my head up for $100 at a jy. Locally it would cost me about $200 for a valve job and I think $60 to surface the head. maybe $100 worth of gaskets and that's it if you will be doing the work your self. You'll need fluids etc of course too. I reused my head bolts but a set of those is like $40-$50 I believe if you want to change those too.
Also you wont always be able to see the crack.some times you can and sometimes you cant.I have a 99' with the 0630 and that cracked, but it cracked on the combustion chamber side of the head.
Although my 0630 head cracking is different from the 0331 head cracking issue Im just pointing out that you wont always be able to see the crack from the oil fill hole.
If the main bearings are shot then Im not sure but I think??? you can change them with the engine in the vehicle.I am not positive about that though and of course that would also depend on the condition of the crank.
The head it self isnt that hard to swap out. If your head is cracked you would need to find a new or jy head. I picked my head up for $100 at a jy. Locally it would cost me about $200 for a valve job and I think $60 to surface the head. maybe $100 worth of gaskets and that's it if you will be doing the work your self. You'll need fluids etc of course too. I reused my head bolts but a set of those is like $40-$50 I believe if you want to change those too.
Also you wont always be able to see the crack.some times you can and sometimes you cant.I have a 99' with the 0630 and that cracked, but it cracked on the combustion chamber side of the head.
Although my 0630 head cracking is different from the 0331 head cracking issue Im just pointing out that you wont always be able to see the crack from the oil fill hole.
Last edited by Spoonman; 11-23-2011 at 10:48 AM.