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keeps Shutting off
Got a 95 cherokee sport automatic 210k.. Drives and idles perfect.. While stopped at signal light everything is good. As soon as I touch the gas pedal it stalls.. Its starts right back up just fine. It does this 5 or 6 times then is good for a while. Seems like it happens most often after refueling. Sometimes I can feather the gas pedal and keep it from shutting off. I've Replaced the ECU, cleaned the throttle body, new IAC, new plugs, new plug wires, and new Fuel filter. The fuel filter was actually so rusted it had a hole in it. The previous owner and my best friend kept it at a full tank constantly. He said it never shut off for him. The first week I got it I let the tank almost run dry. That's when it first started shutting off. I was thinking of trying dry gas and then maybe sea foam.. But not sure I never used sea foam before and i can't afford anything else go wrong.. I have tried injector cleaner and fuel treatment.. If anyone could help me figure this out I would be greatly appreciative.
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It sounds like a fuel pressure issue. Maybe the fuel pump or even the fuel pressure regulator. The fuel pump could be hesitating when you first step on it.
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Check codes yet ....
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Originally Posted by freegdr
(Post 2724071)
Check codes yet ....
I hope you got a refund on your PCM (ECU). Also you can try testing the TPS. You need a multimeter for that. Good maintenance regardless. Make sure the vacuum tube to the MAP (runs from the throttle body to the doodad on the firewall) is intact and connected. |
Yes I had two garages check the ecu they replaced the ecu cause they said it wasn't reading something.. I'm not worried about a refund I just tools then to do whatever.. It actually wasn't that expensive... But the second garage has it now.. I'll ask then for the codes
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I think they said there its a module or something on or near the distributor.. I haven't changed the distributor cap our rotor yet.. So we'll see what they say tmw
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So you started this thread to get us second guess a garage when you can't remember what they do or say and don't touch the vehicle yourself?
Lol what do you expect to gain from this? |
Oh...Umm actually I do work on my own vehicles.. And first off I own my own business and I've been putting in 75 hours a week at work and don't have the time to try and fix it myself.. Hence the garage..Let alone answer prickish sounding questions from a person who calls them self "Salad" lol. 2ND I don't know much about the electrical end of it .. Hence the "second guessing" and forgetting the name of the part.. After all, isn't that what a forum is for? Discussing problems/issues/stories about a common subject. Third I hope to gain an answer to my current situation by again discussing my problem/issue with others who might've run into this very same thing. I've done the research and have tried a few things but nothing has worked yet. So I thought that maybe I'd post exactly what has been going on. Since my problem is a bit different then others that I've read about.. And forth if you don't like my post, don't reply.. In fact get a life.. Stop trolling my ****, stop tossin salads And Step away from computer! Which clearly is what you do all day. Its people like you that make this forum as dumb as it is..
Thanks for your time.. And good luck with that personality problem. Xoxo |
Happy New Year ...:party:
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Wow. You seem to have quite an attitude problem, that's not a good way to start off the new year.
Originally Posted by jimmyfingers85
(Post 2724576)
Oh...Umm actually I do work on my own vehicles.. And first off I own my own business and I've been putting in 75 hours a week at work and don't have the time to try and fix it myself.. Hence the garage..
Originally Posted by jimmyfingers85
(Post 2724576)
Let alone answer prickish sounding questions from a person who calls them self "Salad" lol.
I'm glad you like my username, "jimmyfingers"!
Originally Posted by jimmyfingers85
(Post 2724576)
2ND I don't know much about the electrical end of it .. Hence the "second guessing" and forgetting the name of the part.. After all, isn't that what a forum is for? Discussing problems/issues/stories about a common subject.
Originally Posted by jimmyfingers85
(Post 2724576)
And forth if you don't like my post, don't reply..
Originally Posted by jimmyfingers85
(Post 2724576)
In fact get a life.. Stop trolling my ****, stop tossin salads And Step away from computer! Which clearly is what you do all day.
Originally Posted by jimmyfingers85
(Post 2724576)
Its people like you that make this forum as dumb as it is..
Thanks for your time.. And good luck with that personality problem. Xoxo |
Listen I'm under a lot of stress.. never getting to see my family nor friends and working a 14 hour day on new years day is most definitely not a good start for the new year. I had to fire two pot heads from my shop.. I hadn't even noticed you had a previous post I was referring to your last post... at the point in time I read it it kinda sounded like you were just randomly saying stuff and I kinda snapped... I apologize.. I'm not a mechanic nor an electrician.. I make pizza all day. I have basic mechanical skills... I can almost fix anything other than electrical things with these Cherokees I own 3.. this is the first of this kind of issue I've had. The red neck working on it now sounds like some one from "Deliverance".. when I'm there I'm always waiting to hear banjos start playing.. Anyway I was told that he was a awesome mechanic and super cheap.. I guess I was just looking for a "hey i had the Same problem.. This is what i did." or ideas of what it could be other than ones that I've already tried. I talked to him this morning and he said something about something near the distributor.. After everything I've tried and he has tried if it still doesn't function properly.. then that's where this will come into play.. I will then post what he has done.. Via receipt. So at risk of now being way too of topic and getting this thread deleted.. Again I apologize.. No hard feelings man
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Originally Posted by jimmyfingers85
(Post 2724664)
Listen I'm under a lot of stress.. never getting to see my family nor friends and working a 14 hour day on new years day is most definitely not a good start for the new year. I had to fire two pot heads from my shop.. I hadn't even noticed you had a previous post I was referring to your last post... at the point in time I read it it kinda sounded like you were just randomly saying stuff and I kinda snapped... I apologize.. I'm not a mechanic nor an electrician.. I make pizza all day. I have basic mechanical skills... I can almost fix anything other than electrical things with these Cherokees I own 3.. this is the first of this kind of issue I've had. The red neck working on it now sounds like some one from "Deliverance".. when I'm there I'm always waiting to hear banjos start playing.. Anyway I was told that he was a awesome mechanic and super cheap.. I guess I was just looking for a "hey i had the Same problem.. This is what i did." or ideas of what it could be other than ones that I've already tried. I talked to him this morning and he said something about something near the distributor.. After everything I've tried and he has tried if it still doesn't function properly.. then that's where this will come into play.. I will then post what he has done.. Via receipt. So at risk of now being way too of topic and getting this thread deleted.. Again I apologize.. No hard feelings man
The " I had the same problem" method seldom works well as many of the same problems can be caused by different issues. That's probably why salad was asking you questions rather than throwing random "This worked for me" answers out there. He's doing the responsible thing in my opinion. Relax. And report back with the actual responses of Billy Bob from Deliverance. We'll help you. And BTW, no sardines on my pizza and some hot pepper dressing on my salad!! LOL. |
Anyway..Back to the check for codes question...Since you have a '95 you can check the basic codes yourself with the key on-off-on-off-on method and count the check engine light flashes. See if there's anything in there.
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My money's on either a fuel pressure or Throttle Position Sensor issue.
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Will do cruiser and thanks Probo I'll definitely get on that.. I'll keep everyone updated.. Might be a few days tho..
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Here's the writeup for ya, give it a spin when you get the chance.
Originally Posted by tjwalker
The throttle position sensor is connected to the throttle shaft on the throttle body. It sends throttle valve angle information to the PCM. The PCM uses this information to determine how much fuel the engine needs. The TPS is really just a simple potentiometer with one end connected to 5 volts from the PCM and the other to ground. A third wire is connected to the PCM. As you move the accelerator pedal with your foot, the output of the TPS changes. At a closed throttle position, the output of the TPS is low, about a half a volt. As the throttle valve opens, the output increases so that, at wide open throttle, the output voltage should be above 3.9 volts. Testing can be performed with an electrical meter. Analog meter is best. You are looking for a smooth sweep of voltage throughout the entire throttle band. While slowly opening and closing the throttle, take note to the movement of the voltmeter needle. There should be a direct relationship between the needle motion to the motion of the throttle. If at anytime the needle moves abruptly or inconsistently with the movement of the throttle, the TPS is bad
You should have 5 volts going into the TPS. At idle, TPS output voltage must be greater than 200 millivolts. At wide open throttle (WOT), TPS output voltage must be less than 4.8 volts.. The best is to use an analog meter (not digital) to see if the transition from idle to WOT is smooth with no dead spots. With your meter set for volts, put the black probe on a good ground like your negative battery terminal. With the key on, engine not running, test with the red probe of your meter (install a paper clip into the back of the plug of the TPS) to see which wire has the 5 volts. One of the other wires should show .26V (or so). The other wire will be the ground and should show no voltage. Move the throttle and look for smooth meter response up to the 4.49 at WOT. Perform the test procedure again and wiggle and/or tap on the TPS while you watch the meter. If you notice any flat spots or abrupt changes in the meter readings, replace the TPS. The TPS is sensitive to heat, moisture and vibration leading to the failure of some units. The sensor is a sealed unit and cannot be repaired only replaced. A TPS may fail gradually leading to a number of symptoms which can include one or more of the following: - NOTE: The throttle position sensor is also DIRECTLY involved with transmission shifting characteristics! It should be verified early in the troubleshooting process, when a transmission issue is suspected! • Poor idle control: The TPS is used by the ECU to determine if the throttle is closed and the car should be using the Idle Air Control Valve exclusively for idle control. A fault TPS sensor can confuse the ECU causing the idle to be erratic or "hunting". • High Idle Speed: The TPS may report faulty values causing the engine idle speed to be increased above normal. This is normally found in conjunction with a slow engine return to idle speed symptom. • Slow engine return to idle: A failing TPS can report the minimum throttle position values incorrectly which can stop the engine entering idle mode when the throttle is closed. Normally when the throttle is closed the engine fuel injectors will be deactivated until a defined engine RPM speed is reached and the engine brought smoothly to idle speed. When failing a TPS will not report the throttle closed and fueling will continue causing the engine to return to idle very slowly. • Engine Hesitation on Throttle Application: The TPS is also used by the ECU to determine if the driver has applied the throttle quicker than the Manifold Air Pressure sensor can read. The fueling is adjusted accordingly to cope with the sudden increase in air volume, however a faulty sensor can cause the ECU to ignore this data and the engine will "hesitate" when applying the throttle. In extreme cases with the engine at idle, a sudden application of full throttle can stall the engine. • Engine Misfire: A fault TPS can report values outside the denied acceptable range causing the ECU to incorrectly fuel the engine. This is noticeable as a slight misfire and can trigger the misfire detection software and/or Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) light on the dashboard. Extreme cases can cause excessing misfires resulting in one or more cylinders being shut down to prevent engine and catalytic converter damage. |
Thank you!
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So I called the garage this morning. they said the only code it had was the intake air temp sensor.. He told me he was going to replace that, the distributor cap and rotor (since I already put plugs and wires on it) and he also wanted to replace the fuel pump relay and pick up assembly.. I understand it sux that I'm not AT ALL involved in this at the moment. I just want to keep anyone that wants to lend an option in the loop.. Also I just remembered the first time I took it to the other garage.. It had a code for the fuel pump resistor bypass relay.. Would that be that same thing thus guy is talking about?
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Interesting. While it's like that the IAT is off that won't cause shutting off. Dist cap and rotor will cause poor running sure, I'm surprised they weren't done already.
1995 doesn't have a fuel pump ballast resistor... I'm not intimately familiar with the OBD-I Jeeps but I'm like 90% sure the pump is powered by a relay when you turn the key to RUN and that's it. |
They just started on it this morning.. A buddy of mine worked atThe first garage and I was there when he hooked up the diagnostic machine and that's what it said the code was.. But when he looked it up on the computer.. It didn't have that code.. So from there I have no idea.. All he did after that was switch the fuel pump relay with another relay matched the pins.. But like I said before.. I'm useless with that stuff..
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Re reading the write up.. I'm thinking It'd be a good idea to replace the TPS and MAP?
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TPS wouldn't surprise me, but a good one costs a few bucks. BWD TPSes are unfortunately very unreliable, like most other aftermarket engine management sensors. Make sure to test it first, and if it's bad invest in a quality Mopar unit.
You can test the MAP if you like but they don't really go bad very often. Turns out I have a few pages from the '95 XJ FSM, here's a test procedure for the MAP: http://malcolm.iri5.net/FSM/1995%20XJ%20FSM%2014-47.png |
So The garage called back today.. They said they drive it around Friday and it shut of so much they almost just towed it back. They said they got a TPS and coil from another motor. Drove it around for 3 days and it hasn't shut off since. I'll pick it up tmw and drive it all week.. Hopefully everything is good now.. I'll update the thread next week.. Maybe this thread will help someone else.. Just wish I could've worked on it myself.
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"....and so the story ends, of the new kid in town, who got himself into a somewhat rough start, but due to the calming effect of the elders, saw himself taken up into the family of XJ land...."
Just reading through this thread, I couldn't help myself...:rolleyes: Happy New Year from across the Big Pond. |
Haha.. Yea pretty much. again salad, I'm sry for being a douche. The help was and still is very appreciated..
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Originally Posted by jimmyfingers85
(Post 2731587)
Haha.. Yea pretty much. again salad, I'm sry for being a douche. The help was and still is very appreciated..
You're a good guy, Jimmy, to man-up and apologize. Nice to have you here. |
Originally Posted by belvedere
(Post 2724828)
My money's on either a fuel pressure or Throttle Position Sensor issue.
But if it doesn't STAY fixed, has anybody considered the fact that he ran the tank dry, and THEN started having this problem? And one of the fixes thrown at it was to replace a fuel filter that was "so rusted it had a hole in it". Hmmm. I'd throw a fuel pressure test at that thing if it acts up again. With Canadian bacon on it! :thumbup: |
That's what I originally thought.. Cause it was fine until i ran it dry..But it still shut off after the fuel filter was replaced. There can't be much else left.. I'm just glad someone other then me got to see it shut off.. Its so annoying when I have a problem that vanishes when someone else drives it
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Good to hear you're getting somewhere finally! CF prevails lol
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Originally Posted by jimmyfingers85
(Post 2732321)
That's what I originally thought.. Cause it was fine until i ran it dry..But it still shut off after the fuel filter was replaced.
I was thinking that some crud got through that rusted filter and is creating problems elsewhere. If that's the case, replacing the filter, while necessary, would not solve this problem. |
Well..Good and Bad News.. The good - I drove her Jeep all day yesterday. Running various errands for my parents and grandmother, it ran perfect! Seemed even stronger then before! Was very excited to finally have a running vehicle for my girl friend. But as life has it for me- The Bad - I woke up this morning, went out to warm it up for her, and it won't start. Has all electrical items working, lights wipers etc. fuel pump primes but won't turn over. Pt in neutral thinking the safety switch.. Nothing.. And dom light does dim. So doing done research I found it could be the Crankshaft Positioning Sensor, or starter solenoid. Tapped the starter slightly with hammer... No go. Feeling frustrated and annoyed I got her to work this morning via my own Xj. Got back home.. It fired right up. Drove it around for a few.. And now the blower motor is s***ing out also. After a few mins of heat on hi.. it catches on something and makes a crazy loud grinding/crunching sound.. But still throws heat.. Turning it off then on again.. Its fine for as few mins.. This Jeep hates me! And I hate it as well! Lol All I can do now is laugh.
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Do not despair.
Several things can cause your intermittent (ad therefore somewhat electrical sounding) issue of no starts. To answer your question regarding the CPS (crankshaft position sensor): yes, this is known to give intermittent issues with running/starting. Much like the cam sensor. Both could be in play here. It starts, then next time it doesnt, and this is all completely random. Sometimes its heat related. You could check if you have spark, when it doesnt start. To verify this is not the issue, and check fuel pressure to make sure your pump is not only whining, but also working. It sounds like an intermittent no spark issue, and the above sensors can cause this via via. Dont hate your Jeep, at the moment it just needs a bit more attention than your other one ;) |
A CPS will not cause the engine not to crank over.
It will however, cause it to NOT start when cranking over. The fact that the dome light goes dim tells us something here. The starter/solenoid is drawing down the battery in the Start position. Bad grounds, dirty cables, bad solenoid/starter........ |
Originally Posted by cruiser54
(Post 2734463)
A CPS will not cause the engine not to crank over.
It will however, cause it to NOT start when cranking over. The fact that the dome light goes dim tells us something here. The starter/solenoid is drawing down the battery in the Start position. Bad grounds, dirty cables, bad solenoid/starter........ This^^^ also more info? does it click when it doesn't turn over? (at the starter) |
No.. It does nothing no sound at all.
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Originally Posted by jimmyfingers85
(Post 2734483)
No.. It does nothing no sound at all.
What if you turn the headlights on first? What do they do? |
I was thinking it was the cps because what I read said about intermittently not cranking.. And I tapped the stater and nothing happened.. Then after 30 mins it turned over fine.. And started
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Originally Posted by jimmyfingers85
(Post 2734488)
I was thinking it was the cps because what I read said about intermittently not cranking.. And I tapped the stater and nothing happened.. Then after 30 mins it turned over fine.. And started
Cranking is when the engine turns over with the starter. Crank-no-start is when the engine cranks over but doesn't start. |
Yes I understand.. I turned the key and it did nothing.. It didn't crank.. It didn't try and crack.. there was no noise of any kind.. Other then fuel pump.
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Not sure about the headlights first I'll try it when I get home
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