McHank

-94 XJ 4.0 with auto trans just started acting up.

I just replaced the manifold, motor mounts and did a reset of the PCM.
Started up fine all day yesterday – about 8 starts all in all. Today, 3, but then after a longish drive for 2 hours it just wouldn't turn over for a good half hour – after that it started up, drove it for a bit then tried again – no start.

I hear clicking from the solenoid and fuses but nothing else. All gauges work and comes to life, I have 12.6V at the battery that goes down to 12.2V when trying to start. As so many else, I too have the POS oil leak from the oil filter adapter that drips down onto the wiring of the starter and solenoid – could that cause it? Or could it be the NSS?

Stilllearning

To rule out the NSS I would put it in neutral and see if it starts, if it fires up then you may have an issue with the switch itself since sometimes it will start sometimes not. When you were able to start it did it seem to struggle to crank over or sound like the starter was cranking slowly? I had an intermittent start no start with my Jeep a while back but knew my starter was going out since I had good voltage to the starter and checked over all my grounds. Worst case if your starter is binding up have someone try and crank it over while you tap on the starter with a hammer of course this isn't the best situation to put yourself in but it does work if your starter is binding.

McHank

I tried starting it in N and also wiggled the shifter but same problem, didn't check if I had reverse light tho.

It did seem to struggle a bit (like it didn't have enough juice) and the engine idled pretty low for a bit but then it seemed ok, no hesitation or mis-sounds. I have always had to crank the starter for a few revs to get the engine to fire up, but I'm not sure if that is common for jeeps or if the starter is on it's last legs.

Should try the hammer trick and also check the wiring circuit and voltage.

Stilllearning

In my experience Jeeps do tend to crank a bit more than your average vehicle but it shouldn't be much. It sounds to me like your starter may be going out but before spending the money on a new one just be sure to check over your grounding wires. After doing so you could pull the starter and see if there are any automotive stores near you that will test the starter for you (should be free) and move on from there.

turbo laser

I work at autozone and if you drive it up there. They can test your battery, alternator, and starter all on the car as long as you have a good battery

McHank

Might be a dumb question, but how do I check the grounds? Just by voltmeter and to battery?

I wish I was in the US, over here things with jeeps are a bit complicated. Will try my local mechanic and see if they can do it.

Stilllearning

You basically want to try and isolate the ground wire your checking and set your multimeter to DC Volts and attach one probe to the end of the ground wire and other probe to the other end and you want to be as close to zero as possible. Of course this isn't always easy to do so you can visually check your wires to see if they are broken anywhere (sometimes hard to tell with the wire shielding) and also use a wire brush and clean up where ever your ground wire goes. I'll be honest I'm not the best with electrical circuits so anyone feel free to correct this.

As for your starter if you can't find anywhere to test it there are two methods you can use to help do a semi self diagnosis. First with the starter in the jeep you can use a screw driver and jump the terminals where your power wire and ground are which will probably produce some sparks and if the starter and wiring are good will crank your jeep over. Again not really your ideal situation. Next you could remove the starter SECURLY (<----Read that) attach it to a fixed sturdy object and take jumper cables from the battery to the starter terminals and only clamp one on and tap the other post with the jumper cable and this will turn the starter over. Take note this is not a 100% way to tell if your starter is good. I had one "pass" my battery test but would not push the bendix gear out to engage the flywheel.

Personally I'd look over the grounds, wire brush them, and try to start it. Next progress to having someone inside try and start it while tapping on the starter as those two are simple and don't take much time to try not to mention free.

Again I apologize for the "ghetto" suggestions on testing as they are not the safest but they are relatively easy to do.

McHank

Great info, thank you for that! I'll try and follow the wiring and see if I see any naked wires or dirty connections, if not I'll go for the starter test.

What do you think about the oil drip from the oil filter adapter, could that mess the starter up to the point of non working? The harness and wires are pretty oily.

edit. not sure sure if it could be related but; I'm not getting any engine codes and I used the cruise control on the 2 hour drive (forst time I used it for more than 2 mins).

Stilllearning

Technically oil dripping on any part that is not designed to have oil get on it isn't great. On the other hand many off road vehicles are driven through mud and water that will submerge parts that were never designed to see that kind of abuse but continue to work since they do tend to have some resistance to it. If anything the oil build up on the harness and wires are not letting the full electrial current get to the starter but, in my opinion, not enough of a shortage to cause your no start issue but clean them up regaudless. As for the cruise control I doubt it would have anything to do with your symptoms.

Just keep in mind we are mainly focusing on the starter being the issue which it may or may not be but we'll try and at least rule it out if it doesn't fix your problem. I don't know the history of your Jeep but who knows it may be the original starter and if so 17 years is a good run.

McHank

That's very true, I'll focus on the starter tomorrow and see if I can track where the problem is coming from (starter itself or wiring or something else). I do believe the starter is the original, most everything is on it from what I've seen and changed.

McHank

A little update.

Went out to check if it would start, and it did. Turned it off and tried again, started right up, 2 cranks and it's running. Did this about 5 times and no problem. Didn't drive it long but engine temp got up to about 2/3s of operating temp.

My guess is that the starter is fine, as is the solenoid.

Cleaned all the grounds and checked the battery terminals, no visual issue there.

Did find that the PO had hotwired the ABS fuse with some copper wire, cleaned that and should probably get a new 40A fuse – but could that cause a hot no crank no start issue?

Have a new starter relay that I'll throw in there the next time it doesn't start.

Made sure I had reverse lights and didn't wiggle the shifter before hand to make sure it's not the NSS.

It's a very annoying issue as I don't know if the truck will start up after, say, a gas station stop or a trip to the woods.

Stilllearning

Interesting if the starter doesn't seem to be struggling at all and spins quickly then maybe it's time to look somewhere else. I was rereading your first post and noticed you had said it was a long drive so that means temps were up. Now when it didn't start did the stater spin at all or did you just hear a click when you tried to start it? I was doing some searching and found some information that may help you out if the starter is still spinning but the Jeep just won't fire up. http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/1...n-hot-1089636/

Read post #6

McHank

G'morning Stilllearning, thanks for replying.

I would hear the relay and solenoid click when I tried to start it, but no spinning of the starter. I was also thinking about some sort of heat soak, it has a new header (APN) since 2 days, right after the swap it fired up a lot faster than it ever had (1/2 turn) but then went back to the usual 2.3 revs.

The CPS is new(ish), changed it when I had a no start but crank issue back in September (I think it was), and I hope it's still good.

The o2-sensor's wiring is a bit dodgy from being burned on the manifold, but I guess it would throw a code if it's bad (o2 sensor is brand new and the code is gone).

Stilllearning

I still have a feeling it's the starter that is getting heat soaked then giving you problems until it cools down. Similar to a cordless drill if you over use which heats it up and will eventually quit on you until it cools down. It's a good idea to have that starter relay around to try when the issue comes back up again to rule that out. What is the price tag over there on a starter?

McHank

True, that might be what is causing it, will pop the new relay in next time it happens and see if it wakes up.
Should probably start looking around for a new starter as well, they cost about 350 USD here but could get it from Germany for around 200.