Stock XJ Cherokee Tech. All XJ Non-modified/stock questions go here XJ (84-01)
All OEM related XJ specific tech. Examples, no start, general maintenance or anything that's stock.

how hot is too hot

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jul 21, 2011 | 09:54 PM
  #46  
djb383's Avatar
CF Veteran
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 8,172
Likes: 17
From: The Republic of TEXAS
Year: 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L HO
Default

Originally Posted by cdawall
...........my stocker was a 3 row after all this talk of these garbage 1 row things i wish i would have taken a bunch of photos lol
Yep, wish u would have taken a pic, never seen/heard of a 3 row OE stock rad.....lots of aftermarket 3 row (very narrow tubes) rads though. Most mfgs have gone to 1 (very wide) row 'cause they're more efficient.

Last edited by djb383; Jul 21, 2011 at 09:56 PM.
Reply
Old Jul 21, 2011 | 10:00 PM
  #47  
cdawall's Avatar
CF Veteran
 
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,381
Likes: 0
From: EAFB, SD
Year: 1994
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 HO
Default

Originally Posted by djb383
Yep, wish u would have taken a pic, never seen/heard of a 3 row OE stock rad.....lots of aftermarket 3 row (very narrow tubes) rads though. Most mfgs have gone to 1 (very wide) row 'cause they're more efficient.
i have to assume its part of the HD cooling package mine had. it came with a trans cooler and some other weird **** i have not seen stock on other XJ's as well. oh and oem's use 1 fatty row vs multi thin rows cause they are cheaper not more efficient go look up the formula for heat dissipation of a metal. one of the included variables is surface area. surface area will increase with more small rows than on big one.
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2011 | 01:34 AM
  #48  
JoshMan88's Avatar
Seasoned Member
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 276
Likes: 1
From: Washington
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Default

Im curious if there is a way to put in an aftermarket Water Temp gauge without major mods? any ideas?
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2011 | 02:05 AM
  #49  
EastBeast's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 237
Likes: 2
From: Vacationland
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee
Default

no its not more thin tubes are more efficient because there is more surface area to dissipate the heat.
actually
The wider the tube, the more efficient
is correct. The wider tubes allow for much more tube to fin contact, which allows for more heat dissipation. And they make them out of aluminum now because making wider tubes necessitates making the tubes thicker so they don't balloon. Making a wide tubed brass radiator would make it phenomenally heavy.


Im curious if there is a way to put in an aftermarket Water Temp gauge without major mods? any ideas?
Cut the upper radiator hose,adapter in between and install a sensor. Something similar to this http://www.glowshiftdirect.com/28-mm...achment-1.aspx

Last edited by EastBeast; Jul 22, 2011 at 02:19 AM.
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2011 | 07:16 AM
  #50  
cdawall's Avatar
CF Veteran
 
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,381
Likes: 0
From: EAFB, SD
Year: 1994
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 HO
Default

If you go do the math on the surface area on a 3 row vs a single row the 3 row will have more tube touching the fin. That's why 2 and 3 row radiaters start costing more than single row. Its also why people replace their single row rads with multi row replacements. Use some common sense would you spend more money on a lesser product? Single rows have a higher flow rate due to design but that's their only improvement vs mutirow rads.

Sent by my pet chicken
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2011 | 10:24 AM
  #51  
djb383's Avatar
CF Veteran
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 8,172
Likes: 17
From: The Republic of TEXAS
Year: 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L HO
Default

Originally Posted by cdawall
i have to assume its part of the HD cooling package mine had. it came with a trans cooler and some other weird **** i have not seen stock on other XJ's as well. oh and oem's use 1 fatty row vs multi thin rows cause they are cheaper not more efficient go look up the formula for heat dissipation of a metal. one of the included variables is surface area. surface area will increase with more small rows than on big one.
HD duty engine cooling was an option that added an auxiliary electric rad fan (non-a/c equipped XJs), nothing more. All a/c equipped XJs came with HD engine cooling (electric fan). The towing pkg included a auxiliary tranny cooler and required the optional auto tranny and 4.0L motor.

.......and common sense should tell u that since all the auto mfgs have gone to 1 row aluminum core/plastic tank rads, even pick-ups with 10,000lb tow capacities, they must be more efficient than old school multi-thin row copper/brass rads........everythings got'em and has for the past 15-20 years.......cheaper and cools better, sounds like a win/win to me.

Last edited by djb383; Jul 22, 2011 at 10:32 AM.
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2011 | 10:32 AM
  #52  
cdawall's Avatar
CF Veteran
 
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,381
Likes: 0
From: EAFB, SD
Year: 1994
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 HO
Default

Originally Posted by djb383

HD duty engine cooling was an option that added an auxiliary electric rad fan (non-a/c equipped XJs), nothing more. All a/c equipped XJs came with HD engine cooling (electric fan). The towing pkg included a auxiliary tranny cooler and required the optional auto tranny and 4.0L motor.
I don't have a towing package. Has the auto 4.0 a 3 row, stock tranny cooler and the build sheet says they should be there.

Sent by my pet chicken
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2011 | 10:40 AM
  #53  
djb383's Avatar
CF Veteran
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 8,172
Likes: 17
From: The Republic of TEXAS
Year: 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L HO
Default

All automatics have a tranny cooler....the tow pkg included a second, in addition to the regular tranny cooler, auxiliary tranny cooler. Post a pic of the build sheet....I'll be the 1st to admit I'm wrong and the 1st to admit one learns something new every day. It just seems odd the the FSM makes no mention of a 3 row rad and none of the parts houses references to a 3 row OE rad.
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2011 | 10:45 AM
  #54  
cdawall's Avatar
CF Veteran
 
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,381
Likes: 0
From: EAFB, SD
Year: 1994
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 HO
Default

Originally Posted by djb383
All automatics have a tranny cooler....the tow pkg included a second, in addition to the regular tranny cooler, auxiliary tranny cooler. Post a pic of the build sheet....I'll be the 1st to admit I'm wrong and the 1st to admit one learns something new every day. It just seems odd the the FSM makes no mention of a 3 row rad and none of the parts houses references to a 3 row OE rad.
Will do it tonight if I can find it. It has the aux cooler in front of the ac condensor.

Sent by my pet chicken
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2011 | 10:58 AM
  #55  
djb383's Avatar
CF Veteran
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 8,172
Likes: 17
From: The Republic of TEXAS
Year: 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L HO
Default

.....then everything I've read says the auxiliary cooler, in front of the condenser, is part of the tow pkg. Don't see many pics of build sheets, lookin' forward to it.
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2011 | 11:16 AM
  #56  
djb383's Avatar
CF Veteran
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 8,172
Likes: 17
From: The Republic of TEXAS
Year: 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L HO
Default

Originally Posted by JoshMan88
Im curious if there is a way to put in an aftermarket Water Temp gauge without major mods? any ideas?
We use a ScanGauge, it just plugs into the ALDL port located under the dash on all '96 up vehicles. It'll tell ya coolant temp in 1 degree increments plus a whole lot more.
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2011 | 05:19 PM
  #57  
EastBeast's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 237
Likes: 2
From: Vacationland
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee
Default

If you go do the math on the surface area on a 3 row vs a single row the 3 row will have more tube touching the fin. That's why 2 and 3 row radiaters start costing more than single row. Its also why people replace their single row rads with multi row replacements. Use some common sense would you spend more money on a lesser product? Single rows have a higher flow rate due to design but that's their only improvement vs mutirow rads.
I have done the math. You use some common sense. If you are comparing cores of the same size and construction then yes. But a single core could quite possible have more tube to fin contact, depends on construction really, fins per inch and width. When you add more cores you need increased coolant flow and increased airflow to make any real performance gains. The cores behind are being "cooled" with hot air from the core in front. And the air is slower each core. A properly designed and built single core is not necessarily a lesser product then a 2 or 3 core radiator.
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2011 | 05:25 PM
  #58  
cdawall's Avatar
CF Veteran
 
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,381
Likes: 0
From: EAFB, SD
Year: 1994
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 HO
Default

Originally Posted by EastBeast
I have done the math. You use some common sense. If you are comparing cores of the same size and construction then yes. But a single core could quite possible have more tube to fin contact, depends on construction really, fins per inch and width. When you add more cores you need increased coolant flow and increased airflow to make any real performance gains. The cores behind are being "cooled" with hot air from the core in front. And the air is slower each core. A properly designed and built single core is not necessarily a lesser product then a 2 or 3 core radiator.
i am using common sense you however seem to not be. a properly designed 3 core will outperform a properly designed single core rad. thats the design end of story. you would not see ALL high performance radiators are multi-core designs. as for 1st vs 3rd row cooling the third row is the 1st off of the motor so it is the hottest to begin with and each other row will be cooler and get cooler air.
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2011 | 06:01 PM
  #59  
djb383's Avatar
CF Veteran
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 8,172
Likes: 17
From: The Republic of TEXAS
Year: 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L HO
Default

Look at all the BeCool and Griffin hi-performance rads.......they're 1 and 2 row aluminum cores with 1" to 1 1/4" wide tubes, NOT 3, 4, 5 row with 3/8" to 1/2" wide old school copper/brass tubes/tanks. Again, late model pick-ups towing 10,000lbs come with 1 row aluminum/plastic rads....cheaper, sure......better, definitely.

What other 4 wheel vehicle has a 11' tall radiator????????.......a 3cyl Geo Metro maybe? LOL

Last edited by djb383; Jul 22, 2011 at 06:09 PM.
Reply
Old Jul 22, 2011 | 06:23 PM
  #60  
cdawall's Avatar
CF Veteran
 
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,381
Likes: 0
From: EAFB, SD
Year: 1994
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 HO
Default

Originally Posted by djb383
Look at all the BeCool and Griffin hi-performance rads.......they're 1 and 2 row aluminum cores with 1" to 1 1/4" wide tubes, NOT 3, 4, 5 row with 3/8" to 1/2" wide old school copper/brass tubes/tanks. Again, late model pick-ups towing 10,000lbs come with 1 row aluminum/plastic rads....cheaper, sure......better, definitely.

What other 4 wheel vehicle has a 11' tall radiator????????.......a 3cyl Geo Metro maybe? LOL
thing is a multi pass design is still better. weather people make a good single row design makes no difference. the fact that oem's use cheap single row plastic tanks makes no difference. a properly set up copper cored multi row radiator will cool better. the design is better an the materials are better. take your XJ stock radiator. the single row thing they come with works great when you use it for what its designed for. however the plastic tank cracks and they dont do that amazing offroading temp wise. my old school design 3 row copper doesn't get even close to the same temp as some of the other guys i wheel with using single row aftermarket rads.

the reason becool/griffin use wide tubes is flow rate a thinner tube cause more turbulence lowering flow. the wide ones do not.
Reply



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:52 PM.