Gas milage dropped, help!
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
From: Plaza, ND ..... Unfortunately
Year: 1992
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 I6
and as far as i could tell it was instant drop in milage or a very quick gradual decline like within 2 seven mile trips into town.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
From: Plaza, ND ..... Unfortunately
Year: 1992
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 I6
I'll give you guys a lil more info. When my jeep was acting up a while back, I swapped a lot of sensor from my 88 4.0 5speed parts jeep onto my 88 4.0 aw4 but it turns out it was my CPS. I'll give you a list off all sensors I swapped:
IDLE AIR CONTROL (idle stepper)
INTAKE AIR TEMP
COOLANT TEMP SENSOR
MAP SENSOR
FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR
FUEL INJECTORS
IGN COIL (mine crapped out)
DISTRIBUTER AND CAP ( gonna swap back to my new one)
And I'm sure I'm missing more but my parts jeep ran great before I took all that ****, the only problem was that it had blow by so that's why I made it my parts rig.
Anymore help would be great guys.
IDLE AIR CONTROL (idle stepper)
INTAKE AIR TEMP
COOLANT TEMP SENSOR
MAP SENSOR
FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR
FUEL INJECTORS
IGN COIL (mine crapped out)
DISTRIBUTER AND CAP ( gonna swap back to my new one)
And I'm sure I'm missing more but my parts jeep ran great before I took all that ****, the only problem was that it had blow by so that's why I made it my parts rig.
Anymore help would be great guys.
::CF Moderator::
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 43,971
Likes: 1,579
From: Prescott, Az
Year: 1990
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
3 things come to mind when multiple sensors have been changed with no improvement.
One is the C101 connector has too much resistance in it and another is the sensor ground circuit has high resistance. Also, the grounds at the dipstick tube stud which are big piece of the picture can be poor. Hence, sensors can be swapped, tested etc but the ECU gets false signals due to high ground resistance in the sensor circuit.
Do this first:
Renix Ground Refreshing
The Renix era XJs and MJs were built with an under-engineered grounding system for the engine/transmission electronics. One problem in particular involves the multiple ground connection at the engine dipstick tube stud. A poor ground here can cause a multitude of driveabililty issues, wasted time, and wasted money replacing unnecessary components.
The components grounding at the dipstick tube stud are:
Distributor Sync Sensor, TCU main ground, TCU "Shift Point Logic", Ignition control Module, Injectors, ECU main ground which other engine sensors ground through, Oxygen sensor, Knock Sensor, Cruise Control, and Transmission Sync signal. All extremely important stuff.
The factory was aware of the issues with this ground point and addressed it by suggesting the following:
Remove the nut holding the wire terminals to the stud. Verify that the stud is indeed tightened securely into the block. Scrape any and all paint from the stud’s mounting surface where the wires will attach. Must be clean, shiny and free of any oil, grease, or paint.
Inspect the wire terminals. Check to see that none of the terminals are crimped over wire insulation instead of bare wire. Be sure the crimps are tight. It wouldn’t hurt to re-crimp them just as a matter of course. Sand and polish the wire terminals until clean and shiny on both sides. Reinstall all the wires to the stud and tighten the nut down securely.
While you’re in that general area, locate the battery negative cable which is fastened to the engine block just forward of the dipstick stud. Remove the bolt, scrape the block to bare metal, clean and polish the cable terminal, and reattach securely.
Another area where the grounding system on Renix era Jeeps was lacking is the engine to chassis ground. There is a braided cable from the back of the cylinder head that also attaches to the driver’s side of the firewall. This cable is undersized for it’s intended use and subject to corrosion and poor connections at each end.
First off, remove the cable end from the firewall using a 15mm wrench or socket. Scrape the paint off down to bare metal and clean the wire terminal. Reattach securely.
Remove the other end of the cable from the rear of the head using a 3’4" socket. Clean all the oil, paint and crud from the stud. Clean the wire terminal of the cable and reattach securely.
A suggestion regarding the braided cable:
I prefer to add a #4 Gauge cable from the firewall to a bolt on the rear of the intake manifold, either to a heat shield bolt or fuel rail bolt. A cable about 18" long with a 3/8" lug on each end works great and you can get one at any parts store already made up. Napa has them as part number 781116.
A further improvement to the grounding system can be made using a #4 cable, about 10" long with 3/8" terminals at each end. Attach one end of this cable to the negative battery bolt and the other end under the closest 10mm headed bolt on the radiator support just forward of the battery. Napa part number 781115.
If you want to upgrade your grounds and battery cables in general, contact Jon at www.kelleyswip.com. He makes an incredible cable upgrade for a very reasonable price.
Revised 11-28-2011
This Second:
Renix Jeep C101 Connector Refreshing
The C101 connector on 1987 and 1988 Renix Jeeps was a source of electrical resistance when the vehicles were new. So much so that the factory eliminated this connector in the 1989 and 1990 models. The factory recommended cleaning this connector to insure the proper voltage and ground signals between the ECU and the fuel injection sensors. We can only imagine how this connector has become a larger source of voltage loss and increased resistance over a period of almost 25 years. The C101 connector needs to be cleaned at least once in the lifetime of your vehicle. Chances are it’s never been done before.
Almost every critical signal between the engine sensors, injectors, and the ECU travel the path through the C101.
The C101 is located on the driver’s side firewall above and behind the brake booster. It is held together with a single bolt in it’s center. To get the connectors apart, simply remove the bolt and pull the halves apart. You will find the connector is packed with a black tar like substance which has hardened over time.
Take a pocket screwdriver or the like and scrape out all the tar crap you can. Follow up by spraying out both connector halves with brake cleaner and then swabbing out the remainder of the tar. Repeat this procedure until the tar is totally removed. This may require 3 or more repetitions. Wipe out the connectors after spraying with a soft cloth.
If you have a small pick or dental tool tweak the female connectors on the one side so they grab the pins on the opposite side a bit tighter. Apply a true dielectric grease, not the stuff that came with your brake pads, to the connection and bolt it back together.
Revised 11-29-2011
And this third:
Cruiser’s Renix Sensor Ground Test
Set your meter to measure Ohms. Be sure the key is in the OFF position. Using the positive (red) lead of your ohmmeter, probe the B terminal of the flat 3 wire connector of the TPS . The letters are embossed on the connector itself.
Touch the black lead of your meter to the negative battery post. Wiggle the wiring harness where it runs parallel to the valve cover and also near the MAP sensor mounted on the firewall. If you have an 87 or 88 with the C101 connector mounted on the firewall above the brake booster, wiggle it, too.
You want to see as close to 0 ohms of resistance as possible. And when wiggling the harnesses/connectors the resistance value should stay low. If there is a variance in the values when wiggling the wires, you have a poor crimp/connection in the wiring harness or a poor ground at the engine dipstick tube stud. On 87 and 88 models, you could have a poor connection at the C101 connector as well.
Revised 05/03/2012
One is the C101 connector has too much resistance in it and another is the sensor ground circuit has high resistance. Also, the grounds at the dipstick tube stud which are big piece of the picture can be poor. Hence, sensors can be swapped, tested etc but the ECU gets false signals due to high ground resistance in the sensor circuit.
Do this first:
Renix Ground Refreshing
The Renix era XJs and MJs were built with an under-engineered grounding system for the engine/transmission electronics. One problem in particular involves the multiple ground connection at the engine dipstick tube stud. A poor ground here can cause a multitude of driveabililty issues, wasted time, and wasted money replacing unnecessary components.
The components grounding at the dipstick tube stud are:
Distributor Sync Sensor, TCU main ground, TCU "Shift Point Logic", Ignition control Module, Injectors, ECU main ground which other engine sensors ground through, Oxygen sensor, Knock Sensor, Cruise Control, and Transmission Sync signal. All extremely important stuff.
The factory was aware of the issues with this ground point and addressed it by suggesting the following:
Remove the nut holding the wire terminals to the stud. Verify that the stud is indeed tightened securely into the block. Scrape any and all paint from the stud’s mounting surface where the wires will attach. Must be clean, shiny and free of any oil, grease, or paint.
Inspect the wire terminals. Check to see that none of the terminals are crimped over wire insulation instead of bare wire. Be sure the crimps are tight. It wouldn’t hurt to re-crimp them just as a matter of course. Sand and polish the wire terminals until clean and shiny on both sides. Reinstall all the wires to the stud and tighten the nut down securely.
While you’re in that general area, locate the battery negative cable which is fastened to the engine block just forward of the dipstick stud. Remove the bolt, scrape the block to bare metal, clean and polish the cable terminal, and reattach securely.
Another area where the grounding system on Renix era Jeeps was lacking is the engine to chassis ground. There is a braided cable from the back of the cylinder head that also attaches to the driver’s side of the firewall. This cable is undersized for it’s intended use and subject to corrosion and poor connections at each end.
First off, remove the cable end from the firewall using a 15mm wrench or socket. Scrape the paint off down to bare metal and clean the wire terminal. Reattach securely.
Remove the other end of the cable from the rear of the head using a 3’4" socket. Clean all the oil, paint and crud from the stud. Clean the wire terminal of the cable and reattach securely.
A suggestion regarding the braided cable:
I prefer to add a #4 Gauge cable from the firewall to a bolt on the rear of the intake manifold, either to a heat shield bolt or fuel rail bolt. A cable about 18" long with a 3/8" lug on each end works great and you can get one at any parts store already made up. Napa has them as part number 781116.
A further improvement to the grounding system can be made using a #4 cable, about 10" long with 3/8" terminals at each end. Attach one end of this cable to the negative battery bolt and the other end under the closest 10mm headed bolt on the radiator support just forward of the battery. Napa part number 781115.
If you want to upgrade your grounds and battery cables in general, contact Jon at www.kelleyswip.com. He makes an incredible cable upgrade for a very reasonable price.
Revised 11-28-2011
This Second:
Renix Jeep C101 Connector Refreshing
The C101 connector on 1987 and 1988 Renix Jeeps was a source of electrical resistance when the vehicles were new. So much so that the factory eliminated this connector in the 1989 and 1990 models. The factory recommended cleaning this connector to insure the proper voltage and ground signals between the ECU and the fuel injection sensors. We can only imagine how this connector has become a larger source of voltage loss and increased resistance over a period of almost 25 years. The C101 connector needs to be cleaned at least once in the lifetime of your vehicle. Chances are it’s never been done before.
Almost every critical signal between the engine sensors, injectors, and the ECU travel the path through the C101.
The C101 is located on the driver’s side firewall above and behind the brake booster. It is held together with a single bolt in it’s center. To get the connectors apart, simply remove the bolt and pull the halves apart. You will find the connector is packed with a black tar like substance which has hardened over time.
Take a pocket screwdriver or the like and scrape out all the tar crap you can. Follow up by spraying out both connector halves with brake cleaner and then swabbing out the remainder of the tar. Repeat this procedure until the tar is totally removed. This may require 3 or more repetitions. Wipe out the connectors after spraying with a soft cloth.
If you have a small pick or dental tool tweak the female connectors on the one side so they grab the pins on the opposite side a bit tighter. Apply a true dielectric grease, not the stuff that came with your brake pads, to the connection and bolt it back together.
Revised 11-29-2011
And this third:
Cruiser’s Renix Sensor Ground Test
Set your meter to measure Ohms. Be sure the key is in the OFF position. Using the positive (red) lead of your ohmmeter, probe the B terminal of the flat 3 wire connector of the TPS . The letters are embossed on the connector itself.
Touch the black lead of your meter to the negative battery post. Wiggle the wiring harness where it runs parallel to the valve cover and also near the MAP sensor mounted on the firewall. If you have an 87 or 88 with the C101 connector mounted on the firewall above the brake booster, wiggle it, too.
You want to see as close to 0 ohms of resistance as possible. And when wiggling the harnesses/connectors the resistance value should stay low. If there is a variance in the values when wiggling the wires, you have a poor crimp/connection in the wiring harness or a poor ground at the engine dipstick tube stud. On 87 and 88 models, you could have a poor connection at the C101 connector as well.
Revised 05/03/2012
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
From: Plaza, ND ..... Unfortunately
Year: 1992
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 I6
I've got a 180 thermostat and I've already hacked that ****ty c101 connector out of the equation and soldered and heatshrunk all the c101 wires so that's not the problem. Imma try that grounding thing tomorrow but idk if thats the problem becaus I already used 4 gauge to make a new ground from the Dioscuri to the original ground strap hole on the firewall and I ground to bare metal on both ends of the ground, the motor and the unibody.
::CF Moderator::
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 43,971
Likes: 1,579
From: Prescott, Az
Year: 1990
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
I've got a 180 thermostat and I've already hacked that ****ty c101 connector out of the equation and soldered and heatshrunk all the c101 wires so that's not the problem. Imma try that grounding thing tomorrow but idk if thats the problem becaus I already used 4 gauge to make a new ground from the Dioscuri to the original ground strap hole on the firewall and I ground to bare metal on both ends of the ground, the motor and the unibody.
Just adding a ground and not following all the steps in the write-up, especially the dipstick tube stud, leaves you open for more problems.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
From: Plaza, ND ..... Unfortunately
Year: 1992
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 I6
Ill go refresh all my grounds when I get home today but could anyone have an idea why my idle fluxuates between 1000 and 1300 rpm. It won't idle at 800 like it used to so the idle is high and it jumps up and down. I've already replaced the IAC so it's not that and my tps is adjusted properly. Need some help!
::CF Moderator::
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 43,971
Likes: 1,579
From: Prescott, Az
Year: 1990
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
Ill go refresh all my grounds when I get home today but could anyone have an idea why my idle fluxuates between 1000 and 1300 rpm. It won't idle at 800 like it used to so the idle is high and it jumps up and down. I've already replaced the IAC so it's not that and my tps is adjusted properly. Need some help!
RENIX TPS ADJUSTMENT
Before attempting to adjust your TPS be sure the throttle body has been recently cleaned. It's especially important that the edges of the throttle butterfly are free of any carbon build-up.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Using the positive (red) lead of your ohmmeter, probe the B terminal of the flat 3 wire connector of the TPS. The letters are embossed on the connector itself. Touch the black lead of your meter to the negative battery post. Wiggle the wiring harness where it parallels the valve cover and also over near the MAP sensor on the firewall. If you see more than 1 ohm of resistance, or fluctuation in your ohms reading, some modifications to the sensor ground harness will be necessary. The harness repair must be performed before proceeding. I can provide an instruction sheet for that if needed.
MANUAL TRANSMISSION:
RENIX manual transmission equipped XJs have a three-wire TPS mounted on the throttle body. This manual transmission vehicle TPS provides data input to the ECU. The manual transmission TPS has three wires in the connector and they're clearly embossed with the letters A, B, and C. Wire "A" is positive. Wire "B" is ground. Key ON, measure voltage from "A" positive to "B" ground by back-probing the connectors. Note the voltage reading--this is your REFERENCE voltage. Key ON, back-probe the connector at wires "B" and "C". Measure the voltage. This is your OUTPUT voltage. Your OUTPUT voltage needs to be seventeen percent of your REFERENCE voltage. For example: 4.82 volts X .17=.82 volts. Adjust the TPS until you
have achieved this percentage. If you can't achieve the correct output voltage replace the TPS and start over.
AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION: RENIX automatic transmission equipped XJs have a TPS with two connectors. There is a flat three-wire connector, same as the manual transmission vehicles have, and it is tested the same as the manual transmission equipped vehicles—FOR ENGINE MANAGEMENT RELATED ISSUES.
However, the automatic TPS also has a square four-wire connector clearly embossed with the letters A,B,C, and D. It only uses three wires and provides information to the Transmission Control Module. Key ON, measure voltage between "A" positive and "D" ground. Note the voltage. This is your REFERENCE voltage. Back-probe the connector at wires "B" and "D". Measure the voltage. This is your OUTPUT voltage. Your OUTPUT voltage needs to be eighty-three percent of your REFERENCE voltage. For example 4.8 volts X .83=3.98 volts. Adjust the TPS until you have achieved this percentage. If you can't, replace the TPS and start over. So, if you have an automatic equipped XJ your TPS has two sides--one side feeds the ECU, and the other side feeds the TCU.
FOR AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION RELATED ISSUES. Check the four-wire connector side of the TPS.
If you have ENGINE issues check the three-wire connector side of the TPS. For those with a MANUAL TRANSMISSION--the TPS for the manual transmission XJs is stupid expensive. You can substitute the automatic transmission TPS which is reasonably priced.
Revised 05-20-2012
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