front differential / axle help.
09-09-2015, 12:49 AM
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front differential / axle help.
Hi guys, I am in need of some help. My front differential is on its death bed. And I am afraid to drive it. Its a 95 xj sport with the Dana 30. I plan to just get a whole new front axle and swap it before winter. So I don't need 4x4 until then. Have been trying to research my options, and I am close, just need some specific information.
What is the best way to go about "bypassing" the front diff I suppose is the best way to word it. I was thinking about gutting it, to just let me drive the jeep, but when I was looking that topic up, I read you can just remove the axles and that will more or less ignore the diff. But they state you need to reinstall the axle stub shaft. As without that the whole wheel/hub can come off and I definitely do not want that. But I can't find any specific information on how to reassemble things with just that? Sorry if I sound noobish, I don't do a whole lot of work with 4x4. I just need to get this vehicle driveable for right now and would really appreciate any help. thank you
What is the best way to go about "bypassing" the front diff I suppose is the best way to word it. I was thinking about gutting it, to just let me drive the jeep, but when I was looking that topic up, I read you can just remove the axles and that will more or less ignore the diff. But they state you need to reinstall the axle stub shaft. As without that the whole wheel/hub can come off and I definitely do not want that. But I can't find any specific information on how to reassemble things with just that? Sorry if I sound noobish, I don't do a whole lot of work with 4x4. I just need to get this vehicle driveable for right now and would really appreciate any help. thank you
09-09-2015, 01:38 AM
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So stumbled on some good threads and I think I found what I need, but just want to clarify.
I can pull the hub (36 mm hub nut and the 3 - 12 point 13mm bolts. Pull the whole hub and axle out. Take out the u joint, and reassemble everything except the inner axle shaft. Should totally be a temporary but safe solution to drive on until I get a new front set up?
I can pull the hub (36 mm hub nut and the 3 - 12 point 13mm bolts. Pull the whole hub and axle out. Take out the u joint, and reassemble everything except the inner axle shaft. Should totally be a temporary but safe solution to drive on until I get a new front set up?
09-09-2015, 07:42 AM
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What's wrong with the differential?
Seems like a lot of work for a temp fix when you will then have to do it all over again when you fix it.
Seems like a lot of work for a temp fix when you will then have to do it all over again when you fix it.
09-09-2015, 02:18 PM
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Was kind of vague for a reason. Little embarrassing.. But oh well, here it goes.
So got the vehicle last June. Runs great but had a clunk when in 4x4. Not a big deal as I didn't need it much. Got threw winter fine.. fast forward to this spring / summer and while getting new tires, I asked my buddy who works at the shop to eyeball any issues. Said the pinion bearing was sloppy. But the car drove fine. So continued on as it was a long time til winter. So a month or two ago. Started making some strange noises up front. Was kinda busy so let it go. Eventually it got so bad, it literally felt like I was driving on square wheels. (It went from a noise to the insane scary clunk in like 2 days). So got under it. And checked the diff out, (changed front and rear fluids over winter) all looked good. But noticed the drive shaft could be moved up and down in inch or more into the yoke. Thought that was the cause of the clunk. So removed the front drivrshaft. No change... Got back under and realized the pinion nut,which was supposed to be torqued down to nearly 200 ft lbs, was almost completely off. And could be spun by 1 finger. Did some research and from what I read, said damage was already done and my diff wouldn't last long most likely. So I said screw it, and torqued the nut down to 180-200 ft lbs and sure enough. Noise went away, no clunks. Drove beautifully. However, the pinion seal was leaking... So went about 2 months ish of just filling it up every week. Surprisingly still drove fine, put well over 1000 miles on it since that fiasco. So yesterday. I decide to do something about the leak. Bought a seal, and from reading, read the outer bearing can be swapped easily while in there. So get everything out. And as soon as I remove the bearing to inspect it. I see shims....everywhere. they were roached. 2 were completely mangled. One or two were worn down to the point it wasn't a circle, just a crescent shape.. Was kinda in that, I feel screwed but oh well mentality. So just said oh well and put the new bearing and seal in and reassembled. Went for a test drive and it was pretty decent, zero leaks. And a little rubbing noise. But got out and the diff was literally steaming and hot enough to burn my finger. So I know right now it's ready to catastrophically fail. I know I ****ed up. And I plan to just find a JY or used whole front axle set up and swap before winter. But right now I just want to bypass the diff and be able to drive the jeep as it's my work vehicle and don't want to have to drive my racecar to work.
So... Lay into me
So got the vehicle last June. Runs great but had a clunk when in 4x4. Not a big deal as I didn't need it much. Got threw winter fine.. fast forward to this spring / summer and while getting new tires, I asked my buddy who works at the shop to eyeball any issues. Said the pinion bearing was sloppy. But the car drove fine. So continued on as it was a long time til winter. So a month or two ago. Started making some strange noises up front. Was kinda busy so let it go. Eventually it got so bad, it literally felt like I was driving on square wheels. (It went from a noise to the insane scary clunk in like 2 days). So got under it. And checked the diff out, (changed front and rear fluids over winter) all looked good. But noticed the drive shaft could be moved up and down in inch or more into the yoke. Thought that was the cause of the clunk. So removed the front drivrshaft. No change... Got back under and realized the pinion nut,which was supposed to be torqued down to nearly 200 ft lbs, was almost completely off. And could be spun by 1 finger. Did some research and from what I read, said damage was already done and my diff wouldn't last long most likely. So I said screw it, and torqued the nut down to 180-200 ft lbs and sure enough. Noise went away, no clunks. Drove beautifully. However, the pinion seal was leaking... So went about 2 months ish of just filling it up every week. Surprisingly still drove fine, put well over 1000 miles on it since that fiasco. So yesterday. I decide to do something about the leak. Bought a seal, and from reading, read the outer bearing can be swapped easily while in there. So get everything out. And as soon as I remove the bearing to inspect it. I see shims....everywhere. they were roached. 2 were completely mangled. One or two were worn down to the point it wasn't a circle, just a crescent shape.. Was kinda in that, I feel screwed but oh well mentality. So just said oh well and put the new bearing and seal in and reassembled. Went for a test drive and it was pretty decent, zero leaks. And a little rubbing noise. But got out and the diff was literally steaming and hot enough to burn my finger. So I know right now it's ready to catastrophically fail. I know I ****ed up. And I plan to just find a JY or used whole front axle set up and swap before winter. But right now I just want to bypass the diff and be able to drive the jeep as it's my work vehicle and don't want to have to drive my racecar to work.
So... Lay into me
Last edited by Ibanezz; 09-09-2015 at 02:21 PM.
09-09-2015, 03:50 PM
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Wow. I'd start spraying bolts with PB or some penetrating oil, (Liquid wrench), And start working Craigslist and your local JY's to have the replacement on deck. Bummer, sorry. With my somewhat limited knowledge, I don't see a problem running it with the stubs, seems fine.
If you go there...there is a trick. You can use a 3/8 extension, in the hole where a hub bolt was, against something, and the power steering to press the hub free.
All organized to press/bash out the Ujonts, this job could actually be done in a couple of hrs.
1/2 inch drive, 13mm, twelve point socket for the hub bolts.
If you go there...there is a trick. You can use a 3/8 extension, in the hole where a hub bolt was, against something, and the power steering to press the hub free.
All organized to press/bash out the Ujonts, this job could actually be done in a couple of hrs.
1/2 inch drive, 13mm, twelve point socket for the hub bolts.
Last edited by DFlintstone; 09-10-2015 at 06:59 PM.
09-09-2015, 04:10 PM
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front differential / axle help.
Don't bother putting the stub shafts in they don't hold anything. As long as the 3 bolts on the unit bearing are tight you should be okay.
Nothing to see here. I have learned.
Nothing to see here. I have learned.
Last edited by toasterknight; 09-09-2015 at 08:03 PM.
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09-09-2015, 06:26 PM
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I read specifically to put the stub shafts back in as they prevent lateral movement of the hub and bearing. And there's documented cases of people having their wheel fall of from not having it... One person's father actually dying from the resulting accident.
Appreciate the info everyone. Will be tackling this some time this week. Getting hit with some storms at the moment and no garage access
Appreciate the info everyone. Will be tackling this some time this week. Getting hit with some storms at the moment and no garage access
09-09-2015, 06:31 PM
#10
The stub shaft and 36mm are what keep the hub together.
NEVER drive without a stub shaft installed....NEVER.
09-09-2015, 07:07 PM
#11
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This x1000! Never, never, never drive without the stub shafts!! AND TORQUE THEM BACK TO SPEC!!
This is where your bearing preload comes from, which is a very important thing!
09-10-2015, 08:26 AM
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Was kind of vague for a reason. Little embarrassing.. But oh well, here it goes.
So got the vehicle last June. Runs great but had a clunk when in 4x4. Not a big deal as I didn't need it much. Got threw winter fine.. fast forward to this spring / summer and while getting new tires, I asked my buddy who works at the shop to eyeball any issues. Said the pinion bearing was sloppy. But the car drove fine. So continued on as it was a long time til winter. So a month or two ago. Started making some strange noises up front. Was kinda busy so let it go. Eventually it got so bad, it literally felt like I was driving on square wheels. (It went from a noise to the insane scary clunk in like 2 days). So got under it. And checked the diff out, (changed front and rear fluids over winter) all looked good. But noticed the drive shaft could be moved up and down in inch or more into the yoke. Thought that was the cause of the clunk. So removed the front drivrshaft. No change... Got back under and realized the pinion nut,which was supposed to be torqued down to nearly 200 ft lbs, was almost completely off. And could be spun by 1 finger. Did some research and from what I read, said damage was already done and my diff wouldn't last long most likely. So I said screw it, and torqued the nut down to 180-200 ft lbs and sure enough. Noise went away, no clunks. Drove beautifully. However, the pinion seal was leaking... So went about 2 months ish of just filling it up every week. Surprisingly still drove fine, put well over 1000 miles on it since that fiasco. So yesterday. I decide to do something about the leak. Bought a seal, and from reading, read the outer bearing can be swapped easily while in there. So get everything out. And as soon as I remove the bearing to inspect it. I see shims....everywhere. they were roached. 2 were completely mangled. One or two were worn down to the point it wasn't a circle, just a crescent shape.. Was kinda in that, I feel screwed but oh well mentality. So just said oh well and put the new bearing and seal in and reassembled. Went for a test drive and it was pretty decent, zero leaks. And a little rubbing noise. But got out and the diff was literally steaming and hot enough to burn my finger. So I know right now it's ready to catastrophically fail. I know I ****ed up. And I plan to just find a JY or used whole front axle set up and swap before winter. But right now I just want to bypass the diff and be able to drive the jeep as it's my work vehicle and don't want to have to drive my racecar to work.
So... Lay into me
So got the vehicle last June. Runs great but had a clunk when in 4x4. Not a big deal as I didn't need it much. Got threw winter fine.. fast forward to this spring / summer and while getting new tires, I asked my buddy who works at the shop to eyeball any issues. Said the pinion bearing was sloppy. But the car drove fine. So continued on as it was a long time til winter. So a month or two ago. Started making some strange noises up front. Was kinda busy so let it go. Eventually it got so bad, it literally felt like I was driving on square wheels. (It went from a noise to the insane scary clunk in like 2 days). So got under it. And checked the diff out, (changed front and rear fluids over winter) all looked good. But noticed the drive shaft could be moved up and down in inch or more into the yoke. Thought that was the cause of the clunk. So removed the front drivrshaft. No change... Got back under and realized the pinion nut,which was supposed to be torqued down to nearly 200 ft lbs, was almost completely off. And could be spun by 1 finger. Did some research and from what I read, said damage was already done and my diff wouldn't last long most likely. So I said screw it, and torqued the nut down to 180-200 ft lbs and sure enough. Noise went away, no clunks. Drove beautifully. However, the pinion seal was leaking... So went about 2 months ish of just filling it up every week. Surprisingly still drove fine, put well over 1000 miles on it since that fiasco. So yesterday. I decide to do something about the leak. Bought a seal, and from reading, read the outer bearing can be swapped easily while in there. So get everything out. And as soon as I remove the bearing to inspect it. I see shims....everywhere. they were roached. 2 were completely mangled. One or two were worn down to the point it wasn't a circle, just a crescent shape.. Was kinda in that, I feel screwed but oh well mentality. So just said oh well and put the new bearing and seal in and reassembled. Went for a test drive and it was pretty decent, zero leaks. And a little rubbing noise. But got out and the diff was literally steaming and hot enough to burn my finger. So I know right now it's ready to catastrophically fail. I know I ****ed up. And I plan to just find a JY or used whole front axle set up and swap before winter. But right now I just want to bypass the diff and be able to drive the jeep as it's my work vehicle and don't want to have to drive my racecar to work.
So... Lay into me
If so, and you haven't been driving it, you may still be able to save it by putting the shims back in. If you have the old shims, measure their thickness with a micrometer or a really accurate gauge, buy a new pack of preload shims (be careful to get the correct ones), match the new to the old ones, and install the new one. That should get you close to the original preload and take the stress of the bearings.
If anything is junk, it would be the pinion bearings which got tightened too much, and those can also be changed if damaged.
So you took apart the differential, taking out the carrier and then the pinion?
Or did you just take out the pinion nut and yoke?
Last edited by OldTires; 09-10-2015 at 08:37 AM.
09-10-2015, 08:49 AM
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Have you ever heard the saying (An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure)?
Some things should never be put off it costs you to much in the long run, like me I'm to poor to buy cheap or put things off.
Some things should never be put off it costs you to much in the long run, like me I'm to poor to buy cheap or put things off.
09-10-2015, 10:43 AM
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So you took out the pinion preload shims (because they got mangled when pinion nut was loose), and tightened the pinion nut back to spec torque, which put way too much preload on the pinion bearings?
If so, and you haven't been driving it, you may still be able to save it by putting the shims back in. If you have the old shims, measure their thickness with a micrometer or a really accurate gauge, buy a new pack of preload shims (be careful to get the correct ones), match the new to the old ones, and install the new one. That should get you close to the original preload and take the stress of the bearings.
If anything is junk, it would be the pinion bearings which got tightened too much, and those can also be changed if damaged.
So you took apart the differential, taking out the carrier and then the pinion?
Or did you just take out the pinion nut and yoke?
You can see the shims mangled here.
09-10-2015, 11:53 AM
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Only has 20 mins of test drive on it. I only removed the yoke and pinion nut.
You can see the shims mangled here.
Attachment 275827
You can see the shims mangled here.
Attachment 275827
Were the preload shims on top of the bigger side of the outer bearing (on the pinion nut side)? If so, then that was part of the problem. The preload shims go on the smaller side of the outer bearing and they jam up against the inner pinion shoulder. This limits how far the pinion nut can push the inner and out pinion bearings together.
Last edited by OldTires; 09-10-2015 at 12:21 PM.