98 Cherokee Classic

I live in the south suburbs of Chicago. i have been told by several mechanics that my 2000 XJ needs a new engine due to a pretty bad knock that developed coming from the bottom end. I got a couple quotes from commercial repair shops that kind of blew my socks off. $2500-$3500 for a junkyard engine. Is that right? Would I be better of paying someone to tear it apart and try to rebuild the existing? Man, do I ever wish I knew a mechanic I could trust.

Any Cherokee Forum members near Chicago that would be willing to take on this project?

Here is some additional history in a previous thread:

https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/tic...-knock-243471/

jordan96xj

Those quotes are very high for junkyard engines (I assume that is parts AND labor). Engines at junkyards are typically in the 300-400 range. A rebuilt motor (in the box) for the 4.0 is around 1500-2500 (depending on stock build vs. stroker, etc).

What they are really doing is showing you that they don't want the job. The are building in a lot of insurance into that price. Because engine jobs are very laborious and keep them from doing other more lucrative work in the meantime. Also, after they do your motor, they know that you are going to come back with a bunch of little problems afterwords until they are all corrected. So as a general rule, independent mechanics are not huge fans of doing motor replacements. They will do them, but it certainly is not their primary way of making money.

Like landscaping, or painting...if you pay someone else to do it, it will very expensive because of the high number of labor hours involved. So a tremendous amount of money can be saved if you do these types of things yourself. I'm not saying that you have the ability, the tools, the facility, or even the desire to do so. I'm just saying that doing high labor jobs yourself is much cheaper (on your wallet, not on your back, or your sanity).

AlbertoGR

As Jordan says, mechanics usually do not want this kind of work, many of them even refuse to make it. The best to me, if you have enough room and tools is to do it yourself with patience, manuals and time, engines are not so complex and in the end, most of the operation is derived to machinists by the mechanic, so...

PatHenry

It may be regional cost thing as well, aren't prices in the Chicago area high generally? I don't know if it's so much they don't want the job as it is that they want to be sure they are making money off the job if they do take it. It's a high price, but it's not nearly as bad as someone mentioned in a recent post of like $6k for a head and heater core - that was not even remotely reasonable.. 20 hours to find a decent engine, pull the old one out (and deal with stuck fasteners/broken bolts, rusty exhaust parts), put it back in, replacing gaskets, hoses, wiring and with some padding.. seems at least defensible for a professional independent mechanic.

98 Cherokee Classic

Thanks for the thoughtful replies.

I am willing to put the money in to this truck. I can always make more money, but I have a lack of faith, trust and belief in the repair shops I have talked with to this point. I understand that they are not doing this as a hobby and their goal in life is not to help me out and save my beloved XJ from the scrap heap. I also do not fault anyone for not wanting to jump in on a project that is time consuming, difficult and not very profitable.

I am pretty mechanical when it comes to the basics, but I have never done any lower end engine work. I'd be biting off a lot with little confidence. Not only that, I currently have a boat, lawn tractor and a pressure washer all torn apart with various issues. I have been pretty successful teaching myself how to repair small engines and I honestly believe that I could do an engine swap assuming I had the space, time and tools as someone mentioned, which unfortunately, I do not. I am pretty good at having too many projects rolling at once.

This XJ is obviously not my daily driver anymore so I have time. My 18 year old son is driving a 94 WK that is starting to falter, i'd rather put money into the XJ, which has no rust an no known issues (up until the knock came out of nowhere that is). He likes the XJ and I'd like to fix it for him. It would definitely be an upgrade.

Anyone want to help a newbie with his first engine replacement? If you have the time, I could help, learn and certainly compensate you fairly for your time. Or if you know of a mechanic that you could recommend, I'd be extremely grateful.

Thanks for looking at my post.

awg

in the past, a few times, if I did not have a mate that was familiar (and willing), I have hired a "junkyard guy" to help me with a difficult engine or trans R & R

They do this work day-in day -out...and I suspect they get paid crap $ just like here in Oz

the fella I used to use, he was not a mechanic, but had been doing mechanical work 40+ yrs, and the boss paid him $50-100 per day!

(he did most of the repair work on customer cars)

I offered him $100, food & drink for a Saturday, we got most of an engine trans swap done

a running engine pulled from a Cherokee cost 500-1000 here..(~same price as a whole unreg Jeep)

BlueRidgeMark

There are really two components to this, which are often assumed to be one big unmanageable mess. Not so!

First is the job of pulling out an engine, and putting it back in.

Second is the job of rebuilding an engine.

Think about each one separately, and consider whether you can do either one.

If yes to one, but not the other, you can look for someone to do the one you can't do. If no to both, you can look for separate shops to do each of them.


To help you assess each job, you could wander over to this site and look for the "engine-removal-guide" and the "engine-overhaul-guide". You probably also want to download the Factory Service Manual (FSM) for your beast. I'm told the 97 manual covers the 98 as well. Also grab the parts manual.

I don't think you need to be scared of either job. I'd say you have the ability to do both jobs, with a bit of help from the reference documents I pointed out, and some help from this forum.

Whether you have the space, tools, and time is something only you can decide, of course. You might surprise yourself, though. I live in the country and have no place to park a vehicle except my gravel driveway. No place to get out of the rain. No comfortable concrete or asphalt driveway to lay on while working underneath. (Yeah, those are very comfortable when compared to gravel, and let's not talk about dropping small nuts and bolts!)

Yet, in the last few years, I've replaced a transmission, cut out a frame member and welded it into another XJ (with my sons doing a ton of the labor), and other major projects. I'm soon doing an engine swap from my wrecked 97 to my new engine-blown 98.

As for having the engine rebuilt, try CarQuest. Alas, they got bought by Advance Auto, so they don't seem to have a website anymore, but around here at least, the CarQuest is still in business and catering to the mechanic shops. Their main store in my area does machine work and engine rebuilds.

Lastly, to find a decent mechanic, try (discreetly) asking the staff at your local NAPA or CarQuest. They deal with all of them around, and might be willing to (quietly) recommend someone. They do have to be careful, as they don't want to upset customers by telling you how lousy XYZ Auto is, and having XYZ find out about it.

dzywicki

I had to replace the engine in my '98 last summer. This is Northern VA. Got a running junkyard engine for $450. Bought an engine hoist for $150 and went at it. It's like a puzzle and you go one step at a time. Hardest par tis getting the two top transmission bolts out. They are inverted torx and a pain.
If you have space and time and a decent set of tools you can do it yourself. You need common sockets and wrenches and some extensions for the PITA transmission bolts. If someone is charging you labor, it's probably going to be in the 20 hour range I would guess.

double_0_7

I can give my opinion only as a guy who just mostly did his own brakes at the time. I have no formal training, and I'm getting better with time but still have a LOT to learn about even some things most people on here think are pretty basic. Back then(ten years ago) I only had basic tools, and my parents' garage. It wasn't an XJ, but at the time, I owned a Saabaru (the impreza based Saab 9-2x) and it developed rod knock. I couldn't afford to have someone fix it, and still owed on the loan, so I decided to do it myself.

Even without much, if you have time, patience, and desire, you can definitely swap out a motor for an identical motor. I also can't do tear down and rebuild work, but that's what I would like to do. The thing about buying a good motor is that you don't have to do the tear down and rebuild. It's more steps, but isn't significantly more complicated than swapping out any other major component. Also, especially near chicago, you'll find a butt load of places renting tools, cherry-pickers, you name it. I had the official subaru manual, the assistance of very helpful folks at nasioc.com, and the occasional call to a friend for anything that took two people, but did most of it myself.

Having done a couple different jobs that took two weeks each, I can say you'd definitely get frustrated at times, but telling yourself that you're saving two weeks worth of salary (or more!) will be good enough motivation if you like your car.

mannydantyla

I would at least drop the oil pan and look for the loose rod and bearing to verify it's not a collapsed lifter or piston slap. Maybe take off the bearing caps and look at their condition. Definitely do this before paying a garage to build you a new engine

I've heard you can even rebuild the motor without taking the block out of the engine. But unless you're only replacing some bearings and rods and not taking the head off, then I don't know if it would be any easier unless you don't have a garage or place to store the motor.

If you have the time and resources and critical thinking, which it sounds like you do, then you can rebuild this engine yourself with the help of a machine shop. I'm rebuilding my top end right now and my only engine rebuild experience is with a tiny honda motorcycle engine. So far it's going well. These engines are cake compared to SOHC and DOHC engines, and there's tons of resources online and parts are cheap!

mannydantyla

I've also heard that loose torque converter bolts can come loose and sound very much like a rod knock so check that before dropping $2k+ on a new engine or rebuild

awg

my mate who has been a mechanic over 60yrs, I have seen him fix these engines in vehicle, just pull out a piston, and replace, no worries

He has built untold thousand engines, worked in an engine remanafacture shop for 10+ years

told me the rod bearings are a "weak" point on these motors

98 Cherokee Classic

Learned about that possibility while searching the forum. Followed some instructions on how to take of the cover off and checked that the bolts were tight and saw nothing out of the ordinary on the flex plate.

I thank everybody for their encouragement and advice. I am definitely going to start by taking the oil pan off and seeing if there is anything obvious going on.

I'll update the thread with any progress.

Thanks again to all who replied.

outersketcher

Hey... I'm in the middle of doing this right now to my 95 XJ.

You sound like your situation is similar to mine. I would suggest you do the following.

Plan on either A)buying a remanufactured long block and swapping the tin and auxilary parts. Or B) send your block to a machinist and have him prepare the long block for you.

I chose option B. I hunted around, and found a machinist that had lotsa good references. Using a machinist is different from using a mechanic. For a machinist.. milling your long block is a pleasure. He gets to take a worn out piece of machinery and make it shine and glow again. Most machinists are enthusiastic about what they do.

He doesnt have to get all greasy putting the stupid thing back into the car.. and then get it running.

Anyways.. I pulled my engine.. took lots of pics.. took my block to the machinist. And told him. "Make it work beautifully".

I got back a shiny, clean engine block.. ready to reinstall back into my engine bay.

It's a BIG job. Don't let anyone tell you it isnt. The block is heavy, and you will need to clean everything that is greasy and dirty. But.. if you do it the way I did. You only have to just bolt all the auxilary stuff back onto the new block and hook up the electrical and hoses.

A good machinist will buy an engine rebuild kit and install what you and he agreed to. Then he'll give you the remains of the engine rebuild kit. (gaskets and such).

Removing the engine is dirty and not fun. Re-installing the engine is LOTSA fun. It's a clean block and a clean engine bay... like putting together a large 3-d model kit or puzzle

BlueRidgeMark

This forum needs a way to rate posts. This one would get a 10/10 in my book.