I love that stuff but get it on your clothes and you are f@!#ed.

 

I've used anti seize on lugnuts for 40+ years now. If you have alloy wheels a little spread around the center hole will keep the wheel from locking onto the hub. Just torque, drive, and re-torque. RB

 

that's right, but we're not talking about using machine oil. original question was for using anti-seize.

but thanks.

 

that right all materials will have a different torque spec according to the lubrication value it has

 

The point I was making is you don't reduce torque 50% when wet. From your response I assume you think there is a big difference between the affects of oil and never-seize as it relates to bolt torque.

Tightening torque is calculated from the formula T = KDP/(12) for lb/ft torque, amongst others

T= torque
K= Coefficient of friction
D=Nominal bolt diameter
P = Clamp load
Assuming all the above are constants except for the friction coefficient we can concentrate on “ K”:
Regular Never-Seez has a K value of (0.13)
Oil has an apporx K value of (0.15 - 0.20)
With a 1” bolt with 40,000lb (estimate) tension:
Never Seize
T= (0.13*1*40000)/12
T=433lb/ft
Oil
T= (0.15*1*40000)/12
T=500 lb/ft

 

sorry, guess that sounded kinda rude.

what i meant was you don't reduce the torque using anti-seize.
and especially not by 50%, even using oil.

it's just that some users tend to give out the wrong information.
i'd hate to see someone use this info and find their junk falling apart on the highway (or trail).

 

No Problem - There is a lot of engineering behind dry vs. wet torques and numerous variables. As you said, wrong information can lead to huge problems. Under and over torque happens a lot for many reasons. Be safe and check your lugs often b/c there's no turning back when you chuck a tire going 65mph down the road!

 

you cant forget that its not just thread friction
the bolt head and shank is part of that calculation
depending on if you use lubricant on that part also

 

OK - so they have changed the formulation. I'll bear that in mind when I restock.

I'm just going off of experiments I've done (advantage to having been in college and getting to play with test equipment) comparing compression loads on a joint with a set torque value and various lubricants.

Granted, if you're using a true "torque angle" method (say, "contact plus two full turns") then you're depending on the geometry of the threads and it doesn't change. But, if you're using a torque force (torque wrench or "tension wrench") to set the preload, there are wide variations due to lubrication (however, the higher lubricity compounds will give a more consistent compression load on the joint, due to the elimination of friction.)

I've seen where you take the "clean, dry" torque value, apply never-seez, and end up pulling the threads right out of what you're threading the screw into - so that's where the reduction rules come from.

"clean, dry" = 100%
RTV or Threadlocker = 100%
PTFE paste or tape = -10%
Engine oil or chassis grease = -25%
Never-seez (traditional) = -50%

Irritatingly, never-seez was also a useful little trick for extending the capacity of a torque wrench - I guess that's going to be out now as well. Bugger.

 

I think we have beat this one to death but I am not following you. The torque wrench is measuring the force needed to propery tenstion a fastener. The proper "torque" results in proper tension of the whole assembly. The bolt head & shank are stationary (using a hold back wrench) and lubing has no effect on the force needed as they are stationary. Lubing the threads results in less friction thus "tensioning" the assembly to the proper value with less torque input.

 

ahh you guys make a simple thing complicated. Just torque your nuts to 95 ft lbs and be done with it, whether you run oil or anti-seize on the lugs. No need to calculate specific poundage.

 

OK I said bolt head but in this case its the nut and you still have friction
on the nut to the wheel the lager the surface on the nut the more friction

 

you have never snapped a bolt from over torque

if you use a lubricant that decreases the friction a lot
that 95 you just used could equal to 130

 

I never snapped bolts from overtorquing them. i can't notice the difference in removing my tj's lug nuts that are dry and my xj's anti-seized nuts. they go on and come off with the same amount of effort. i've swapped tires a godzillion times and can do it by feel now cuz 95 is 95.

 

Wanted to revisit this issue based on some more research on torque and anti-seize compounds. The Permatex brand anti-seize part nos. 80078 and 80208 seem to be the most commonly available around here. Per the Permatex Technical Data Sheet that somebody has already posted, normal torque values are to be used when this product is applied. However, all anti-seize is not created equal...that is, the coefficient of friction of various brands and types varies. Therefore, the proper torque value may also vary. Torque is an indirect measurement of how much preload is applied to a threaded assembly. It is usually impractical to actually measure how much a bolt stretches when tightened so torque is used as a substitute. Many things can affect torque including thread lubrication as well as how clean the threads are, whether they are plated, and the overall condition of the threads. If the lugnuts have been damaged by a careless installer (ie--impact wrench) then they won't torque properly to specs. The manufacturer torque specs for lugnuts are for stock wheels and nuts. These values may not be valid for aftermarket wheels and lugnuts. There are a lot of variables here. An experienced mechanic can tell by feel if the nut or bolt has tightened properly. If it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't. Torque specs are a good guide but lots of other things are in play here. So, to use or not to use anti-seize on lugnuts? You be the judge.