macgyver35

I didn't quite your post. I referred to the fact that several people (not just you) said that the OP needed to get an amp for his door speakers.

You're right. I have no idea of what you've done over the years. That's why I asked for your credentials. I'm still waiting...

You obviously don't understand sarcasm. I don't think Fosgate rocks (though the older stuff was pretty great). I was speaking figuratively of all the less than detailed advice that seems to be thrown out without any supporting quantifying or qualifying info.

You didn't just thrown in your .02 cents about Eclipse an amp in your second post. You subsequently ripped into me about my post because you THOUGHT I was singling you out, and tried to imply that my information was false. It's not.

By the way, clearly stating the technical aspects of how something works in detail, especially in an effort to help someone, while also providing actual technical specifications, as well as references to other material that will back up what I've said and provide further information is not "chest pounding".

The bottom line is you got panties in a twist and now you're back-peddling. Until you can provide some other support for you knowledge other than that you've used Eclipse of years, stop arguing with me. Please. It's not helping the OP, or anyone else that looks to this thread for guidance.

macgyver35

Wow! Do many of you actually read a book or two? Or do you just keep spewing the same misinformation you've heard for the last 20 years?

I'm not suggesting. I'm stating. The decibel scale is logarithmic. Have you ever seen one? Or understood it if you did? Each jump of 10 decibels is, to our ears, acoustically louder than the 10 decibels before it. I.E. 60 decibels is twice as loud as 50, and 70 is twice as loud as 60.

And what are you talking about with "the 170db range"? You do know that the typical rock concert 50 feet from the stage is about 120 decibels, and 135 decibels is the threshold for pain?170 decibels is like having a grenade go off right next to your ear. It would most likely immediately rupture your eardrums, if not possibly cause hemorrhaging of your eyeballs. Perhaps you might want to actually go back and study that decibel scale some more, and read a book or two about the math and science behind sound.

I'll get you started with a couple of things that can be found in seconds on the internet:

www.digikey.com/Web Export/Supplier Content/PUI_668/PDF/PUI_speaker_power_distance.pdf

http://www.howstuffworks.com/how-to-...ensitivity.htm

http://www.axiomaudio.com/power

Please note that the actual increase in decibels is an approximation. It is largely in the scientific community measured as 3.1 decibels, but since a .1 decibel increase is audibly imperceptible, most common references round it off to just 3 decibels.

As I stated before, the Dual was the only head unit I could find at the time that had both Bluetooth and an SD card slot. That being said, I still don't regret the purchase,. It's been a great head unit. And for the record, I'm not concerned about having your respect, especially from someone who questions what I say without taking two seconds to find outside evidence that I'm right, and pulls some "sure, at 170 decibel" stuff out of thin air.

Since this thread has gone completely off the rails, I'll end my participation here by inviting everyone to do a little reading on the internet or in books and educate yourself, and tell the OP that he is welcome to take my advice or not. I really don't care one way or another, but I'm about the only person on here who has backed up my statements with links and references to third party sources.

95Cherokee

Ha, I remember the Sparkomatic stuff, I had the Sparkomatic 100 watt bass cannon in a little truck back in the day, put out more bass than without it, wasn't half bad for $50 from Western Auto.

mr white

No, I mean if you turn it up loud enough to overdrive the amp. Generally overpowering is better than underpowering speakers, but if you never reach thhose Max volumes then it doesn't matter. Op says he is overdriving his hu amp, which is why I recommended he amp his speakers. I should have asked if he turns the bass all the way up as well as the bass requires more power.

mr white

dB is a log function. You need twice the power to make 3dB, and about ~4x the power to make a 6dB increase.
dB = 10log(pout/pin)

salad

The venue with the old Turbos actually had a small air plane in the way.

salad

x2. It should be further noted that an increase in 3 dB is perceived as twice as loud as well.

ss427ci

I know a thing or two about stereo systems, so let me tell you something.....don't over think or over complicate life choices. Make a choice! if necessary, adjust fire and move forward. Too easy!

Lowrange2

I didn't say you were mathematically incorrect.

Suggesting that amplifying mid-range speakers is a waste of time, in my opinion, is silly. The improvement by adding an amplifier is substantial in sound quality.

Honestly, you're right. I know nothing of 170db. Though, I do know a thing or two about 167db considering the system that me and co-workers built held the world record for N.S.P.L. Mod 0-30" class for quite some time.

I could care less about the dick measuring but don't post up about how everyone's suggestion to add a quality piece of equipment is a bad idea.

macgyver35

Holy *****... I know what I'm writing cause I can see it on the screen. But what you are reading seems to be something different.

Now I have to start quoting myself. From my initial post on the topic:

"Wow! All this talk of needing a separate amp just for your door speakers. Um... It certainly won't hurt, but in many cases it's going to be overkill."

Once again, based on the context of the OP's needs and limited budget (not anyone else's preference in system design), I suggested that it would be overkill, and that at this point, what limited funds he has are best spent and an amp and sub.

I never, ever, said that adding a dedicated amp for the door speakers was a "bad idea." And in a non-competition system, installed in a vehicle that is renounded for the amounts of squeaks, rattles, wind/road noise, and other issues it has, I do believe that in most cases, spending the money on a dedicated amp for door speakers is unnecessary. I think as much gain or more would be had from Dynamatting the doors.

I've never disputed the idea that using dedicated amps is a good idea if your goal is high sound quality. In fact, from one of my other posts:

"Now, if the man wants to start entering car stereo competitions for sound quality, then yeah, use separate amps for everything, build custom crossovers, Dynamat everything, make use of a 40 band parametric equalizer, and tweak the crap out of it. But that's not what he is doing, and there are untold millions of cars that have systems that sound fine on nothing more than what power is built into the stock head unit."

It boils down to this:

If you only have $100 to spend and he has a choice between buying a dedicated amp for his existing door speakers, or spending $70 to get a Kenwood head unit, a sub, and an amp to go with it, he should choose option 2. He'll get the most immediate and noticeable benefit from doing so. And as I also said in another post, once he has more money down the road, there's nothing stopping him from adding that dedicated doors amp if he wants to.

macgyver35

Please read this link I posted earlier. 3db is not twice as loud. 10 decibels is twice loud.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/power

salad

Hm guess I was confused. I found the chart on this page is helpful: http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/how...eloudness.html

If you want other people to take you seriously though, I strongy suggest taking the stick out of your ***. This thread has just gotten stupid.

ss427ci

I agree, it sure has.

macgyver35

More like the thorn out of my side. You should try having a bunch of people say you're wrong (when your not and you've provided outside links showing that your not), claiming that you said things you didn't, and get pissed at you for singling them out and verbally attack you when you didn't even remember their post. Then tell me how you feel.

I'm a regular member of about half a dozen forums. International High IQ Society, Tech Republic, AVS forums, etc. But for some reason, this forum seems to be riddled with folks who simply can't or refuse to correctly interpret what they read and absorb its meaning. I've been involved in some spirited debates on those other forums, and they almost never devolve into this kind of garbage. Maybe because those people appreciate having someone provide helpful detailed information and supporting evidence to back it up (not solely their opinion), instead of arguing with and misquoting someone who does so.

Sad that someone can put forth so much time and effort to help someone they don't even know, only to be rewarded with ridicule from others they don't even know. It really works against the primary purpose of forums like these.

mr white

Remember at the end of the day it is the internet.