rjacks258

Hey all, I am having an odd no start condition in my right hand drive 96 Cherokee. When I bought it a few weeks ago the seller told me of a few issues, one being a check valve in the fuel pump/tank that allows fuel to drain back to the tank when it sits. No biggie just turn on the key and let it prime. Which worked the first time I drove it away. Then it started to become a hassle using it for mail delivery all the time and waiting 15-20 minutes every morning before it finally fires. I've searched and searched and haven't found much to pinpoint it. Now lemme explain the problem. First off I get the NSS code, P1899, but to my knowledge that shouldn't allow it to crank, and not a crank and no start. I can crank it no matter where the shifter is. The weird problem I am noticing is when I first turn the key on to prime the fuel rail I should get all the warning lights to come on, key on engine off. The only light that comes on is the brake warning light. After a while I notice the Gen/Check Engine lights start to flicker then eventually coming on solid after turning the key on and off a few times, 25-30. Once those lights come on is when she'll start. If those lights don't come on while priming fuel pressure then I can crank all day and nothing. My question, is the Crank position sensor some how related to these lights and getting it to fire? Is the NSS related to this? Once I notice the lights coming on a few times of switching the key it will start every time. Sometimes it takes longer than others but it starts. After that I never have a problem all day. Even if I have to get out for gas, or get out at a condo and shut the engine off I turn the key back to the on position and it fires up every time. Only cold starts are like this, which throws my thinking off of most electrical problems happening when the part gets hot. Maybe there's some kind of short? Bad wiring? I've looked it over minimally for now since it sits at the office I work at and I don't have it at home to really get into it right now. I've checked fuses, relays, wiring harnesses, and they all "look" okay, but haven't removed anything yet to clean and thoroughly inspect. Anyone have any suggestions?

SilverHaze

The nss will let you crank all day long but not start. Move the gear selector around the next time it won't start.

ZINGGG

False^

If it was the NSS, it wouldn't crank at all. First thing I would check is what kind of fuel pressure you're getting. You can rent a fuel pressure gauge from any auto parts store.

Klroach92

agreed, check fuel pressure, when you do this check it once when its running and then again immediately after shut off and one more time when its cold, if it is lower when it is cold then the check valve is allowing the fuel to flow back into the fuel tank. relatively easy fix if this is the case, another probable cause in a list of a million would be sensors, crankshaft camshaft etc.. do the fuel first though since thats what it sounds like to me. Also have you tried flooring the gas peddle on the second crank? give it a whirl and let us know.

Radi

I'll go down a different path and have you look at the ignition switch and plug. It's a known failure point and would explain the idiot lights not coming on until you've worked the switch back and forth several times.

The P1899 is a NSS "incorrect state" problem, not necessarily one that will prevent the starter from operating. You'll get it if someone has jumpered the NSS, or if the NSS has failed. They usually respond well to a good cleaning.
The fact that yours will crank in any gear selection makes me think someone jumpered it, which then explains the P1899.
Look at the plug over near the trans dipstick for signs of a wire jumper.

rjacks258

Radi - yes there is a jumper wire. I failed to mention this in my first post. I will take a look at the ignition switch as I not yet sold on the fact that other sensors are the problem. Mainly because of the dash lights not coming on right away. Thanks for the replies all, keep em coming if anyone has more suggestions.

rjacks258

A bit of an update maybe someone can point me down the path of this electrical nightmare.

I replaced the crank position sensor and vehicle speed sensor. VSS mainly because the old was leaking tranny fluid and the wires on the harness side were frayed. New one comes with a pigtail and heat shrink tube. Also pulled the NSS and cleaned it, shined up the contact points. Someone had pulled it once before as the plastic side of the casing is cracked. Put it together anyway because it's what I have now. After all this it does the exact same thing, crank and no start. Warning lights flicker here and there but I haven't continued until start like I do at work. I did this morning to bring it home. I'm checking all the wiring under dash right now. The other issue I noticed is someone has hacked the OE plug for the cam sensor and has wires crimped in place running right to the distributor side and plugged in that way. Filled full of silicone to keep from backing out. I haven't messed with those yet. Any other suggestions? My belief is it is definitely electrical.

Edit: I do notice once the key is on the fuel pump runs and stays running.

Radi

Is it still doing that? I'd take a hard look at the ignition switch and connector, then the connectors for the PCM. Make sure the PCM has battery power and a solid ground connection. To make the warning lights come on you have to have both of those functioning, none of the other sensors come in to play at that point. I'm still leaning towards ignition switch since working it back and forth temporarily fixes the problem.

rjacks258

I have taken a look at the PCM connectors, but not ground yet. It's definitely still doing the light thing. I want to look and possibly replace the ign switch but I have to find tamper proof torx bits in town. Unless I break it and worry later since the previous owner took that route with some of the other dash covers and such.

rjacks258

Ignition switch connections look good, that doesn't rule out the switch though. I did buy one but also bought the wrong size tamper proof torx bit. I was able to grab the one holding the cover on but can't get to the two holding the switch. This thing is starting to make me mad.

Radi

That's how you know you're a Jeep owner.

rjacks258

That doesn't help.

rjacks258

Yet another update, maybe someone will chime in that has a direction towards a solution:

Replaced ignition switch, cleaned all grounds. Look for shorted, corroded, dirty, non desirable etc. wires or connectors. Found one under the dash, but after a while of trying to start it, it fired and said connection was still disconnected. So obviously not related to my problem.
Found a bad rear temp sensor connector last night, fixed and securely attached it.
One odd thing I noticed today was with the fuel pump and it's relation to this problem. When you first try to start it and turn the key on, the pump comes on and runs but stays running. Now when I turn the key and the dash lights come on finally, the pump will come on and shut back off after 3-5 seconds like it's supposed to. Now what is controlling the fuel pump directly allowing it to run forever when the dash lights don't come on as opposed to it shutting off like it's supposed to when they do finally come on?

Jerald671

Sub. I have the same problem. I hope you find the solution.

rjacks258

Is this problem too technical for this forum?