Steam cleaning your 4.0
06-19-2016, 07:59 AM
#16
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Year: 1994
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
when I did the tranny fluid it was a carb with no O2 sensor...old school , now days would not do tranny fluid again. may run some sparling water ha ha..
06-19-2016, 02:09 PM
#17
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Year: 1998 Classic (I'll get it running soon....) and 02 Grand
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
Yeah, I would not do trans fluid in a modern car, unless someone I trust can testify to it working.
Sparking water is going to release a ton of C02. That ought to really confuse the ECM!
, maybe it will make my xj smarter and get better gas mileage. 
06-20-2016, 10:38 AM
#19
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Year: '98
Engine: 4.0 I6
Questions;
On a heavily "carbonized" motor, would this be dangerous enough to knock carbon loose into the actual cylinder? I am fine with knocking it out of the exhaust valve but am afraid of it scoring or damaging a cylinder somehow.
Likewise, any worry of "hyper expansion" bending a rod or something? I assume that the solution to that would be carefully metering the amount of water you put into the intake.
On a heavily "carbonized" motor, would this be dangerous enough to knock carbon loose into the actual cylinder? I am fine with knocking it out of the exhaust valve but am afraid of it scoring or damaging a cylinder somehow.
Likewise, any worry of "hyper expansion" bending a rod or something? I assume that the solution to that would be carefully metering the amount of water you put into the intake.
06-20-2016, 09:28 PM
#20
Herp Derp Jerp
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Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L OBD-II
Seafoam is not as effective a cleaning agent as water. Here's a little video that does a DIRECT comparison of the two methods:
Basically, Seafoam is good if you have $10 and want to see some smoke, but fireworks are a no-no.
Strictly speaking, this *is* possible. However, the risks are about the same as just running the engine.
The 4.0L, while an interference engine, is relatively low compression at 8.8:1 when new. It's also a gas engine, and, after Renix, there's no EGR! This means that there's virtually no carbon in the intake tract, and the tolerance for something like a chunk of carbon getting stuck in a valve is a little larger. On an EGR engine, the heat and soot presents a greater potential for gunk in the intake. Anything higher compression, like a diesel or DI gas engine, also has a much lower margin for error.
I would only really be concerned if you dump a massive amount of water in, thereby hydrolocking it, or if there was so much carbon buildup that you had to run 93 octane gas to avoid pinging.
The safest approach is to run at a high RPM and mist the water as it goes in. This ensures that you make the most steam possible. Water expands a fair amount when boiled, 1600x increase in volume as a gas, so remember that although more steam = greater cleaning potential, I think there's also a greater exhaust velocity to expel the chunks. If severe carbon buildup is suspected, a lighter approach will reduce the chances of a massive piece getting trapped in a valve. But really you should do a physical inspection with a borescope, first, if you're really concerned.
Since someone mentioned this in Ask The Question, anyone who does this should ideally do this with the engine hot, and then go for a drive afterwards, as some water WILL slip by the rings into the crank case and pollute the engine oil.
Great writeup!
Basically, Seafoam is good if you have $10 and want to see some smoke, but fireworks are a no-no.
Questions;
On a heavily "carbonized" motor, would this be dangerous enough to knock carbon loose into the actual cylinder? I am fine with knocking it out of the exhaust valve but am afraid of it scoring or damaging a cylinder somehow.
Likewise, any worry of "hyper expansion" bending a rod or something? I assume that the solution to that would be carefully metering the amount of water you put into the intake.
On a heavily "carbonized" motor, would this be dangerous enough to knock carbon loose into the actual cylinder? I am fine with knocking it out of the exhaust valve but am afraid of it scoring or damaging a cylinder somehow.
Likewise, any worry of "hyper expansion" bending a rod or something? I assume that the solution to that would be carefully metering the amount of water you put into the intake.
The 4.0L, while an interference engine, is relatively low compression at 8.8:1 when new. It's also a gas engine, and, after Renix, there's no EGR! This means that there's virtually no carbon in the intake tract, and the tolerance for something like a chunk of carbon getting stuck in a valve is a little larger. On an EGR engine, the heat and soot presents a greater potential for gunk in the intake. Anything higher compression, like a diesel or DI gas engine, also has a much lower margin for error.
I would only really be concerned if you dump a massive amount of water in, thereby hydrolocking it, or if there was so much carbon buildup that you had to run 93 octane gas to avoid pinging.
The safest approach is to run at a high RPM and mist the water as it goes in. This ensures that you make the most steam possible. Water expands a fair amount when boiled, 1600x increase in volume as a gas, so remember that although more steam = greater cleaning potential, I think there's also a greater exhaust velocity to expel the chunks. If severe carbon buildup is suspected, a lighter approach will reduce the chances of a massive piece getting trapped in a valve. But really you should do a physical inspection with a borescope, first, if you're really concerned.
Since someone mentioned this in Ask The Question, anyone who does this should ideally do this with the engine hot, and then go for a drive afterwards, as some water WILL slip by the rings into the crank case and pollute the engine oil.
Great writeup!
Last edited by salad; 06-20-2016 at 09:30 PM.
06-21-2016, 05:30 PM
#21
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Year: 1999
Engine: 4.0
Why do it gotta be driven? Does the vehicle have to be in motion? I mean I could mimic the driving by throttling the butterfly.
06-21-2016, 06:04 PM
#22
No, I don't lick fish.
06-22-2016, 07:42 AM
#24
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Year: 1996
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L
would it be more effective to spray the water with your average house hold cleaner product bottle, filled with only water of course, or it'd be the same as dropping it slowly?
06-22-2016, 09:08 AM
#25
Old fart with a wrench
GUYS!, My GRANDFATHER did this with his model T! The whole idea is the water soaks into the carbon and then boils, breaking it's bond in the engine parts. This works best inside the cylinder where there is enough heat, but not so well in the intake manifold. That's where the detergents in Seafoam work their magic. My grandad used kerosene followed by water to clean his motors. Another point with today's engines is the carbon has to be broken up fine enough to not clog the cat.
Jeep has a special cleaner for this and it's recommended to give it enough near the end to stall it, then let it soak in for 2 hours, then restart it to blow it out. I've done this with Seafoam and had good results.
Mopar recommends this carbon removal treatment on engine that don't operate above 3000 rpm most of the time and have misfire problems. They say the misfire is caused by carbon build-up on the valve seats. IDK about you guys but I seldom wind my WJ over 3000 and 70 mph is only 2200 rpm. SO this means ALL 4.0s in my estimate.
Jeep has a special cleaner for this and it's recommended to give it enough near the end to stall it, then let it soak in for 2 hours, then restart it to blow it out. I've done this with Seafoam and had good results.
Mopar recommends this carbon removal treatment on engine that don't operate above 3000 rpm most of the time and have misfire problems. They say the misfire is caused by carbon build-up on the valve seats. IDK about you guys but I seldom wind my WJ over 3000 and 70 mph is only 2200 rpm. SO this means ALL 4.0s in my estimate.
Last edited by dave1123; 06-22-2016 at 09:17 AM.
06-24-2016, 07:40 AM
#26
Beach Bum
Steam conversion
Spray a developed fire in a room and the water instantly turns to steam, filling the room with superheated moisture and that heat drops to floor where you are normally safe from extreme temperatures. Any exposed flesh is instantly burned and the heat from the conversion is felt through turnout gear. Also turns visibility to zero.
Steam conversion has explosive properties, that is my point and relation to this thread.
06-24-2016, 12:22 PM
#27
CF Veteran
I know that water is the universal solvent, but was interested in hearing from someone who has done the trans fluid before, and why?
06-24-2016, 02:23 PM
#28
Beach Bum