Suspension brand education
CF Veteran
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,874
Likes: 100
From: Northern Ontario, Canada
Year: 1990, 1999, 2000
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
to add to this, i'm in the market for a long arm kit. rough country is the only one that is close to reasonable in price, all the B Lee and other smaller companies that make arguably better quality products would end up costing almost twice RC price because of currency exchagne and shipping here to canada.
so back to RC long arms, the downside seems to be the flex joints, so after some research you can buy johnny joints that screw right in and don't blow after 6 months. i haven't bought anything yet, but right now that's probably what I'm going to do.
the only issues i've had with RC is the leaf springs and the heim joint on the adjustable track bar. replaced the springs with RE and replacing the heim isn't that big of an issue.
so back to RC long arms, the downside seems to be the flex joints, so after some research you can buy johnny joints that screw right in and don't blow after 6 months. i haven't bought anything yet, but right now that's probably what I'm going to do.
the only issues i've had with RC is the leaf springs and the heim joint on the adjustable track bar. replaced the springs with RE and replacing the heim isn't that big of an issue.
CF Veteran
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,024
Likes: 2
From: Quebec
Year: 1996
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L
hey cane, check out staangs fab. they're in burlington. eric is an xj guy and makes a great kit that is on par with clayton at a decent price. comes with johnny joints and poly bushings where expensive joints aren't needed. great guy too. i bought mine for 700 bucks back when he first started building them, that's with all joints. best crossmember design in the industry too.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 935
Likes: 49
From: Nationwide, USA
Year: 89
Model: Cherokee
Engine: Renix 4.0
Well said. I'm brand new to the XJ world (still have my Pro-4X Xterra) and have been researching lift kits and brands and have come across the same thing as stated in the OP, this brand is crap, that brand is crap, etc.. It is tiring, and I have no clue really of which brand to go with.
I don't plan on crawling, but I'll be hitting up some moderate trails in our local SoCal mountains and deserts. I do want 3" and will go with 31x10.5x15 tires. My XJ is not my daily and I'll be hitting dirt at least once or twice a month with it. I'm pretty much at a loss at which kit to go with.
I don't plan on crawling, but I'll be hitting up some moderate trails in our local SoCal mountains and deserts. I do want 3" and will go with 31x10.5x15 tires. My XJ is not my daily and I'll be hitting dirt at least once or twice a month with it. I'm pretty much at a loss at which kit to go with.
Last edited by ElMartillo; May 31, 2017 at 07:53 AM.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
From: Hamilton,Mt
Year: 1996 Heep XJ Country
Engine: 4.0
I've been running an RC X series short arm kit ( with the RC drop brackets) for over a year with zero problems with the bushings. I wheel the crap outta it, and it is my daily (short distance) driver. Not sure if RC used different bushings lately or what. I'm at the point where I'm tired of the drop brackets catching on rocks so will do the RC long arm kit next.
FYI, Allied beadlocks kick ***! (Once you get everything mounted and torqued!)
Last Monday's snow run:
Sway bars still connected: (forgot to disco before our run.)
FYI, Allied beadlocks kick ***! (Once you get everything mounted and torqued!)
Last Monday's snow run:
Sway bars still connected: (forgot to disco before our run.)
CF Veteran
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,226
Likes: 11
From: Laurium, MI
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee(XJ)
Engine: 4.0L
My only experience has been with an IRO long arm kit on my previous XJ. I am now installing a CavFab 3-link on my current XJ.
My complaint with the IRO set up is they use the stock crossmember bolts, which are 14mm. Well, the joints they use are 9/16" I.D. so the 14mm are sloppy and they are necked down as well, which make for even more slop. I tightened them down as much as I could and the arms would still move back and forth at the crossmember. They would move back and forth when in 4x4 as the front axle loads and unloads. Not sure if there is an easy fix for it, the 14mm nut is welded to the crossmember, so you can't use a 9/16" bolt. Poor design I guess.
My only complaint with CavFab so far is poor communication and they don't seem to include all parts in their shipments. Can't speak for the actual kit itself as I can't install it yet. Initial impressions are that it will be excellent, but no way to know for sure until it's in the rocks and abused, that's a few months away for me unfortunately.
So far I would choose the CavFab kit over the IRO by a huge margin. I wouldn't even consider the IRO kit to be honest. It flexed very well, but the sloppy fit just can't be ignored.
By the way, same problem with their shackles, they are meant to work with 14mm bolts to the leaf spring, yet are almost 9/16" I.D. bushings. I say almost because a 9/16" bolt won't fit through the bushing. Easy solution is order the correct bushings from WFO, you just have to shave maybe 1/16-1/8" off the length and then you can use 9/16" bolts with no slop. Easy fix, but poor design on IRO's part. I've had two sets of their shackles, so it wasn't an isolated incident, I'm sure it's just their design.
My complaint with the IRO set up is they use the stock crossmember bolts, which are 14mm. Well, the joints they use are 9/16" I.D. so the 14mm are sloppy and they are necked down as well, which make for even more slop. I tightened them down as much as I could and the arms would still move back and forth at the crossmember. They would move back and forth when in 4x4 as the front axle loads and unloads. Not sure if there is an easy fix for it, the 14mm nut is welded to the crossmember, so you can't use a 9/16" bolt. Poor design I guess.
My only complaint with CavFab so far is poor communication and they don't seem to include all parts in their shipments. Can't speak for the actual kit itself as I can't install it yet. Initial impressions are that it will be excellent, but no way to know for sure until it's in the rocks and abused, that's a few months away for me unfortunately.
So far I would choose the CavFab kit over the IRO by a huge margin. I wouldn't even consider the IRO kit to be honest. It flexed very well, but the sloppy fit just can't be ignored.
By the way, same problem with their shackles, they are meant to work with 14mm bolts to the leaf spring, yet are almost 9/16" I.D. bushings. I say almost because a 9/16" bolt won't fit through the bushing. Easy solution is order the correct bushings from WFO, you just have to shave maybe 1/16-1/8" off the length and then you can use 9/16" bolts with no slop. Easy fix, but poor design on IRO's part. I've had two sets of their shackles, so it wasn't an isolated incident, I'm sure it's just their design.
::CF Administrator::
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 14,479
Likes: 805
From: Blunt, South Dakota
Year: 97
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.6 stroker
Weird, any contact with IRO to see what they said about it? I've been hearing a lot about CAVfab but companies such as that don't really sell complete kits. I wish more places would offer that so you don't have to spend hours researching what parts will intermix well. Being way up in the U.P. of Michigan I have no real shops(that I know of) to figure this stuff out so I want something that will come complete with a company that has decent communication in case anything goes wrong. I've contacted IRO with a few questions and they're quick to respond and offer advice/their experience. I've bought a 2nd vehicle to DD so when I finally decide to jump in I won't be vehicle-less but I don't want to be hogging the garage too long...wifey and little one deserve a garage on the rainy/cold days
It was going to be the kit I bought, but I already had an SYE, and one or two other things already, then had a RK 3-link fall in my lap, so basically I copied the majority of the components offered in his kit, and ordered it bit by bit. It also didn't hit my wallet all at once. Ultimately, I'm happier I pieced mine together as opposed to just buying a kit, had a little more control over what was going on my rig. Yes, it took longer, but overall, I'm happy I went that route. Pros and cons to each way, but Frank's kit is one of the most complete I've seen.
CF Veteran
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,226
Likes: 11
From: Laurium, MI
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee(XJ)
Engine: 4.0L
Check out the LA kit from Serious. Complete, excellent components, fantastic customer service, and fast shipping. Also, I've never heard any negative feedback on it.
It was going to be the kit I bought, but I already had an SYE, and one or two other things already, then had a RK 3-link fall in my lap, so basically I copied the majority of the components offered in his kit, and ordered it bit by bit. It also didn't hit my wallet all at once. Ultimately, I'm happier I pieced mine together as opposed to just buying a kit, had a little more control over what was going on my rig. Yes, it took longer, but overall, I'm happy I went that route. Pros and cons to each way, but Frank's kit is one of the most complete I've seen.
It was going to be the kit I bought, but I already had an SYE, and one or two other things already, then had a RK 3-link fall in my lap, so basically I copied the majority of the components offered in his kit, and ordered it bit by bit. It also didn't hit my wallet all at once. Ultimately, I'm happier I pieced mine together as opposed to just buying a kit, had a little more control over what was going on my rig. Yes, it took longer, but overall, I'm happy I went that route. Pros and cons to each way, but Frank's kit is one of the most complete I've seen.
::CF Administrator::
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 14,479
Likes: 805
From: Blunt, South Dakota
Year: 97
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.6 stroker
It looks like the cross member won't work with frame stiffeners?(have 3/16" from hooligan in the garage waiting to go on) Also it's still ~$500 more once you factor in driveshaft(was planning on tattons), and SYE(was planning on Hack 'n' Tap(NP242), and track bar brace(only differences I noticed). Oh and "4 link" vs "3 link" was thinking "3 link" might flex a bit better.
His kit came with an SYE, is it NP231 only? Can't remember...
Anyways, it was just an option...
Last edited by Rogue4x4; May 31, 2017 at 09:25 AM.
CF Veteran
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,226
Likes: 11
From: Laurium, MI
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee(XJ)
Engine: 4.0L
You might have to trim to make it work, but that's pretty much any kit with stiffeners. I had to trim my pinch seam to make the RK kit work, as well as drill holes and weld in crush sleeves...expect to be trimming/fitting with stiffeners.
His kit came with an SYE, is it NP231 only? Can't remember...
Anyways, it was just an option...
His kit came with an SYE, is it NP231 only? Can't remember...
Anyways, it was just an option...
The IRO just mounts to the underside with the stock 2 bolts and you drill and tap a 3rd...i'd like to have one that wraps around and has inserts for the framerail but that'd have to be custom and a pain to get right with different thickness stiffeners out there. Also planning boatsides so those through bolts would only be accessible from the inside of the framerail.
Edit: Also nice with IRO I can just weld the side pieces on and still be able to remove the center section...in case there are any bolt/nut problems...lol
Last edited by rcguymike; May 31, 2017 at 09:43 AM.
Member
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 125
Likes: 2
From: Anthem, AZ
Year: 2001
Model: Cherokee
Weird, any contact with IRO to see what they said about it? I've been hearing a lot about CAVfab but companies such as that don't really sell complete kits. I wish more places would offer that so you don't have to spend hours researching what parts will intermix well. Being way up in the U.P. of Michigan I have no real shops(that I know of) to figure this stuff out so I want something that will come complete with a company that has decent communication in case anything goes wrong. I've contacted IRO with a few questions and they're quick to respond and offer advice/their experience. I've bought a 2nd vehicle to DD so when I finally decide to jump in I won't be vehicle-less but I don't want to be hogging the garage too long...wifey and little one deserve a garage on the rainy/cold days
As far as the shackles, I found the correct bushings on my own and figured it was easier to just get them myself.
Look into the TNT Customs kit. I know that was high on my list before I found CavFab.
Sometimes it's better spending hours researching before you commit to buying and installing. It may save you hours later on trying to research and swap poor quality parts for better quality or better performing parts. Just because it's a kit doesn't mean it all works best together. I'd assume a lot of the kits are put together based on profit margin depending on the company. Either way, custom is the way to go if you have the time to research. Also, a kit could be great, but you still have to research that kit to figure out the pros and cons.
CF Veteran
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,226
Likes: 11
From: Laurium, MI
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee(XJ)
Engine: 4.0L
Sometimes it's better spending hours researching before you commit to buying and installing. It may save you hours later on trying to research and swap poor quality parts for better quality or better performing parts. Just because it's a kit doesn't mean it all works best together. I'd assume a lot of the kits are put together based on profit margin depending on the company. Either way, custom is the way to go if you have the time to research. Also, a kit could be great, but you still have to research that kit to figure out the pros and cons.
CF Veteran
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,014
Likes: 17
From: Louisville,KY
Model: Cherokee
Some people want a lift the cheapest way to get it now,But they never stop and think why is one brand cheaper then another brand.Its like coke vs a knock off called cola both are soft drinks but the coke is probably gonna taste better and cost more.Not all lift brands are the same or do they ride the same also.
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Model: Cherokee
Is there a middle ground brand or kit? It seems like all the "cheap" brands offer kits in just about every price range. I have noticed some of the brands on the "higher" end offer the kits without shocks. How is one to know which shock will work best with the coils those kits offer? I've been reading up on the topic for the past month or so but really feel like I've gotten nowhere. For every person that says "brand x sucks" there is another person that says they have ran brand x for (insert amount of time here) without any problems.
My XJ is going to be a weekend wheeler that will probably only see dirt once or twice a month. I will drive it to work once a week as well (25 miles round trip). Is a "Zone", "Rusty's", "RC", "Trail Master", etc. in the $450-$650 range kit really that awful that it's going to be problematic for someone with plans for their vehicle like myself?
My XJ is going to be a weekend wheeler that will probably only see dirt once or twice a month. I will drive it to work once a week as well (25 miles round trip). Is a "Zone", "Rusty's", "RC", "Trail Master", etc. in the $450-$650 range kit really that awful that it's going to be problematic for someone with plans for their vehicle like myself?
CF Veteran
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,208
Likes: 5
From: Ocean County, NJ
Year: 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L
I'll add my experience so far with the Skyjacker long arm kit. A little backstory is that I know one of the Skyjacker Reps and I got hooked up with this kit when it was first released. Yeah, fancy life....
First, I had major issues with the track bar setup they include. They use a relocation bracket down at the axle which added a ton of leverage on that bracket. It broke the mount relatively quickly. Fixed all that and went with a Rubicon Express track bar with the double shear bracket and the track bar brace. I wasn't as savvy with lifts like I am now so I had no idea that the skyjacker track bar was flawed.
The only other issue I had was that the bushings in the leaf springs and shackles were destroyed in only a few thousand miles! Like, completely gone. I could swing the leafs side to side. Long story short, called skyjacker and they informed me that their first batch of leafs had bad bushings and they took care of the problem free of charge to me (whole new set of leaf springs). Also gave me a whole set of bushings and parts to rebuild the johnny joints and shackles. Their customer service is pretty damn good.
I've put this kit through its paces at Rausch Creek in the rocks about 5 times now and it's held up. I smash the LCA frame mounts off rocks and they take it. Skyjacker isn't a big name in the XJ world but in all honesty their long arm kit is pretty good and can take a beating. Just crazy expensive.
First, I had major issues with the track bar setup they include. They use a relocation bracket down at the axle which added a ton of leverage on that bracket. It broke the mount relatively quickly. Fixed all that and went with a Rubicon Express track bar with the double shear bracket and the track bar brace. I wasn't as savvy with lifts like I am now so I had no idea that the skyjacker track bar was flawed.
The only other issue I had was that the bushings in the leaf springs and shackles were destroyed in only a few thousand miles! Like, completely gone. I could swing the leafs side to side. Long story short, called skyjacker and they informed me that their first batch of leafs had bad bushings and they took care of the problem free of charge to me (whole new set of leaf springs). Also gave me a whole set of bushings and parts to rebuild the johnny joints and shackles. Their customer service is pretty damn good.
I've put this kit through its paces at Rausch Creek in the rocks about 5 times now and it's held up. I smash the LCA frame mounts off rocks and they take it. Skyjacker isn't a big name in the XJ world but in all honesty their long arm kit is pretty good and can take a beating. Just crazy expensive.