tballer4596

Hello all,

So during a rather aggressive rocky hill climb last weekend, the jeep got a little hot and my stock radiator decided it has finally had enough, the passenger side tank ruptured the whole way down. Was pretty cool!

As per usual I figured now's the time to upgrade. I went with a CSF dual row radiator and flowkooler high flow water pump.

https://www.quadratec.com/products/7...8aAhcxEALw_wcB
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/csf-2670

For context, I'm going to paste my radiator review here:
"I wouldnt reccomend this radiator. First of all, and most frustratingly, the lower transmission cooler line connection DOES NOT FIT THE STOCK LINE. The fitting is slightly too large and had to be modified in order to fit my line which was very frustrating. Second, the fins of this radiator are EXTREMELY flimsy in comparison to the stock radiator, and get ruined during install extremely easily. Third of all, this radiator is marketed as "dual row", which is true, however the radiator itself is hardly thicker than the stock radiator, if at all. I cant see any benefit to this rad being dual row if the rad itself isnt any thicker. Whats the point? As far as cooling, sure it does the job just fine. But I'm left feeling like I could have saved my money and put a stock unit back in the truck with less hassle."

As an update to the above, it does not do the job just fine. Unfortunately my jeep is even hotter than it was before (heat was never really an issue other than that hill climb I did or sometimes on hot trail days).
With this new stuff installed, now the jeep sits above 210 pretty much all the time. Yesterday I had the jeep idling in the driveway, was about 70 degrees out, and the e-fan was clicking on and off and temp was sitting above 210. (AC was not on).

My stock setup never had this issue. I already plan on returning the CSF radiator as I'm very unhappy with its quality, and my question to you all is whether you believe the radiator is to blame, or the pump.

Iv'e read a lot of threads about people claiming that high flow pumps move water too fast to cool in the radiator, I'm not sure I buy that because while yes the water is in the radiator for a shorter duration, its in the engine for a shorter duration as well. I'm hoping the answer here is that this rad just sucks, but I've seen plenty of threads and reviews with people having success with this rad as well as the flowkooler, so I'm not sure where I went wrong. Any input would be appreciated. I'm planning on stroking this motor in the future so cooling performance will be important.

I'm also reading about high flow t-stats, but I dont think I buy that either. With an upgraded rad and pump, I dont see how the T-stat would be having any effect, but open to opinions.

robsjeep

I installed a flowkooler pump and thermostat a few months ago, my old pump leaked (stock pump) and the thermostat was old, so in go the new parts. No troubles. As for me, the flowkooler pump and thermostat are great.

If you radiator is thin, not well made, well than can cause you to run hotter. of course make sure your thermostat is good, they fail so why not replace now? maybe some debries got stuck in thermostat?
I have a Triumph with a radiator, its thermostat got old, the wax leaked out of it and it failed closed, cooked my cooling system.

Thus I error of early replacement of the thermostat.

so I suggest you pull the thermostat and with a stove top pot of water test it for operation just for kicks, then replace with new, it it indeed is very old. then see if things improve, if still too hot, then the radiator is suspect, assuming the pump and belt are correctly installed.

good luck, stay cool under pressure

tballer4596

The t-stat is fairly new, probably about a year old, so I'm less suspicious of it, but it wouldnt hurt to test it. I would be surprised though, since it worked just fine before I swapped the other stuff. This did give me an idea though, would removing the t stat completely be a good way to test this? I'm assuming that since I am exceeding 210 degrees, the T stat is staying completely open so that the engine can come back down. If that is the case, I should be able to remove the t stat and see the exact same temps once the engine is warmed up. If I see a reduction in temperature, then the T stat would be to blame?

superj

pull it out and try it. i know in the old days you could throw the thermostat with no problems because the vehicle was carbureted. now days though, fuel injection requires certain parameters to be met before it will come out of loop mode and meter fuel properly. you might have everything working normal and have lower temps and you might stay in loop mode longer or get warmer temps? i have no idea with a hi flow pump because i have never tried one but the radiator would be going back since its so thin. dual core should be thicker

BlueRidgeMark

Test it, don't trust it.


It would not be a bad way to test it. As superj said, you don't want to run that way for long, but for a test, yeah, go for it. But also give it the ol' boil in a pot on the stove test.

But remember, if the radiator is marginal, removing the restriction of the t-stat might just allow enough increase in flow to mask a bad radiator.

But it's probably your cheapo radiator. Here's a little-known fact about radiators - more rows does NOT equal more cooling. Radiator design is a lot more complicated than that.

DustyWagoneer

Interesting!

I just took delivery today of the very same radiator from Summit.
So mine will be installed into a 4 cyl. Cherokee (upgrade from the standard 4 cyl. radiator). I am just using a stock style water pump, and a 195* thermostat, but everything will be new. Plus I have completely cleaned out my engine of all he crap.
It is always a good thing to test a new thermostat before installing it anyways. Not that I don't trust Shineese things......................... but I don't trust them!
Please post up anything you find???

TrailerTrash

Does it have a fan shroud?
is the bottom radiator hose collapsing/getting sucked shut?
did you burp all the air out?
Is it drinking any coolant?
Are you positive that the head gasket isnt blown causing the overheating in the first place?

that's all I can think of to ask. I am not calling you dumb by asking basic questions.

00t444e

Pretty common problem with aftermarket radiators and "high flow" water pumps. A properly working factory setup with the fan shroud in place is all most people need, unless you are running 33s or larger then you can add a fan clutch for a 4 cyl XJ, you can wire the e fan to a switch to turn it on sooner as well. I am running that setup with 35s and have no trouble with it overheating.

robsjeep

take it out and put in a pot of water on stove. bring up temperature and watch to see when the thing opens, should be at 195F if that is what the thermostat is designed for. Sometimes they open only a little bit, or not at all. The wax in the cylinder does the work, it expands upon heating, and that expansion pushes open the thermostat against the closing spring pressure the wax can leak, and that causes the thing to not fully open, or not open at all.
so dont monkey around with removing it and test drive with it removed, Instead simply test it on the stove, that way you know for sure if she fully opens or not at the right temperature. easy peasy!

superj

sometimes they are bi-metallic springs instead of wax, just fyi. i know they use some types of fluids in the fan clutches but i have never seen any in a thermostat so you saying that is something i learned today, robsjeep

robsjeep

Wax Thermostat...
https://www.carbibles.com/car-thermostat/?amp

My jeep thermostat is wax type, as was that on my Triumph and van. my other vehicles use a bellows / alchohol operated thermostats, (aircooled vehicles)

My experience with water cooled car is very limited. But from what I understand wax types are very common on water cooled cars, but other types may also be too.

Of course some of my aircooled cars with automatic chokes use a bi metallic strip for choke operation, and on one of my old injected cars the bimetallic strip method is used to activate the cold start enrichment injector.

at anyrate the wax can leak out via the stem seal, and when that happens the thermostat will not fully open. That is why the pot on the stove with a thermometer is so good at checking for thermostat operation, you can visually inspect for full opening at the indicated temperature. A thermostat that has wax leak out will look just fine, until you find it wont open all the way.

DustyWagoneer

It is an OEM type radiator, not a ""High performance"" one.

agreen

The flowkooler water pump is designed to flow more when crawling at low engine speed/ heavy load conditions. I know many jeep owners with them that have complained that they don't flow well at higher rpm. Not because the coolant moves too fast to allow it to cool, but the pump actually cavitates, which reduces flow and can damage the water pump impeller. You'd need to have a higher pressure system to prevent the cavitation, which I wouldn't recommend.

Take this info for what you will. I haven't ever used a flowkooler pump.

Cummins93

Maybe I missed it. OP what cap are you running?

robsjeep

I run that pump, no problems on road, or off road. Id sure like to see the cavitation damage claimed. The flowkooler impeller is a machined aluminum part, verses stock stamped steel. perhaps improper coolant mix is the problem? the impeller might corrode more if the coolant is too old and depleted. generally antifreeze can help prevent cavitation too, by increasing the boiling point.

anyway, both me and buddy have that pump, and we run nice and cool be it rock crawling or high speed highway cruising, no problems. I recommend it, it appears to be very well made.