Seasoned Member
If i remember correctly from doing my own alignments, toe is 1/8" closer on the front of the tire, compared to the rear.
also like everyone else said, PB that stuff, get some heat, and a large monkey wrench. I use a monkey wrench when i do my alignments to adjust the toe.
also like everyone else said, PB that stuff, get some heat, and a large monkey wrench. I use a monkey wrench when i do my alignments to adjust the toe.
Senior Member
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Funny you mention that because when I did the two inch lift and went to re-attach the track bar at the axle, I used the bounce the jeep up and down, shake it left and right method to get the axle lined back up and it did not line up with the factory hole. I had to turn the steering back and forth to get the bolt hole to line up. So I am thinking that is off some.
Lifting it causes the track bar to pull the axle towards the drivers side. If not corrected, would it cause the vehicle to track towards the right? I thought it would track to the left.
Glad to hear the good news on the track bar. Very good move. As long as it's a quality bar, you won't be sorry.Originally Posted by Marks2000XJ
I actually just purchased an adjustable track bar to go with another lift kit I just bought.Funny you mention that because when I did the two inch lift and went to re-attach the track bar at the axle, I used the bounce the jeep up and down, shake it left and right method to get the axle lined back up and it did not line up with the factory hole. I had to turn the steering back and forth to get the bolt hole to line up. So I am thinking that is off some.
Lifting it causes the track bar to pull the axle towards the drivers side. If not corrected, would it cause the vehicle to track towards the right? I thought it would track to the left.
As far as the pulling due to the track bar, It could pull in either direction if combined with another problem. ie: toe in adjustment, worn control arm bushings or bad tires. The axle will normally track to the side that has the best caster angle.
"CROSS CASTER
Definition: The difference side-to-side between caster settings. More than half a degree difference may cause a steering pull toward the side the least (negative) caster. Caster on the left front wheel is sometimes decreased to compensate for high road crown."
CF Veteran
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well that makes things a little differentOriginally Posted by Marks2000XJ
Well I thought about that but should I constantly be fighting it going down the highway? I do know if I get in the left lane it seems to be not so bad but still pulls to the right.
take a tape measure and measure the front of the tires inside side wall to inside side wall , then measure the rear (of the front tires) inside side wall to inside side wall
the front should measure about 1/16" to 1/8" LESS than the rear (or the front tires)...
then adjust your drag link turn buckle until the steeling wheel is centered...
Well I took some dirty measurements today and this is what I came up with. The front axle appears to be pretty square as there was only an 1/8" difference on both sides and this could have been from the tape measure not being exactly centered.
So...I checked the toe measurements and the front of the tires are turned in 9/16-5/8" compared to the back. A 1/2" more than it should be. Is it possible the drivers side tire could be turned in more than the passenger. They are both turned in yes, but can one be more than the other? Maybe one tie rod end was screwed in farther than the other on initial install?
Could the front toe be in so far in make the vehicle pull one way or another?
So...I checked the toe measurements and the front of the tires are turned in 9/16-5/8" compared to the back. A 1/2" more than it should be. Is it possible the drivers side tire could be turned in more than the passenger. They are both turned in yes, but can one be more than the other? Maybe one tie rod end was screwed in farther than the other on initial install?
Could the front toe be in so far in make the vehicle pull one way or another?
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So...I checked the toe measurements and the front of the tires are turned in 9/16-5/8" compared to the back. A 1/2" more than it should be. Is it possible the drivers side tire could be turned in more than the passenger. They are both turned in yes, but can one be more than the other? Maybe one tie rod end was screwed in farther than the other on initial install?
Could the front toe be in so far in make the vehicle pull one way or another?
Yes ... that could definitely make your vehicle pull. Unfreeze your TR adjuster sleeve and correct your toe. That would be the first thing I would do.Originally Posted by Marks2000XJ
Well I took some dirty measurements today and this is what I came up with. The front axle appears to be pretty square as there was only an 1/8" difference on both sides and this could have been from the tape measure not being exactly centered.So...I checked the toe measurements and the front of the tires are turned in 9/16-5/8" compared to the back. A 1/2" more than it should be. Is it possible the drivers side tire could be turned in more than the passenger. They are both turned in yes, but can one be more than the other? Maybe one tie rod end was screwed in farther than the other on initial install?
Could the front toe be in so far in make the vehicle pull one way or another?
Here is a good writeup for how to do your own alignment:
http://www.stu-offroad.com/steering/align/align-1.htm
Take careful measurements and set your toe to a c-hair less than 1/8" toed in.
As far as "one wheel in more than another," that could be true. But they will find their center as you drive. The key to which wheel is in too much is your steering wheel. First get your toe adjusted properly, then look at your steering wheel as you drive. If the wheel is too far to the right, then make *EQUAL* adjustments to your right and left tie-rods to move the steering wheel back to center. Make sense?
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Here is a good writeup for how to do your own alignment:
http://www.stu-offroad.com/steering/align/align-1.htm
Take careful measurements and set your toe to a c-hair less than 1/8" toed in.
As far as "one wheel in more than another," that could be true. But they will find their center as you drive. The key to which wheel is in too much is your steering wheel. First get your toe adjusted properly, then look at your steering wheel as you drive. If the wheel is too far to the right, then make *EQUAL* adjustments to your right and left tie-rods to move the steering wheel back to center. Make sense?
Alright. With a little PB blaster and some heat I managed to break the tie rod loose. Got the front wheels adjusted. Front of tires now measure 58-1/16" and rear measure 58-1/8". I called it close enough. So just as you said, the steering wheel is now slightly turned to the right. It seems if I adjust this back to center then the steering will completely straighten out as in no pull to the right.Originally Posted by montanaman
Yes ... that could definitely make your vehicle pull. Unfreeze your TR adjuster sleeve and correct your toe. That would be the first thing I would do.Here is a good writeup for how to do your own alignment:
http://www.stu-offroad.com/steering/align/align-1.htm
Take careful measurements and set your toe to a c-hair less than 1/8" toed in.
As far as "one wheel in more than another," that could be true. But they will find their center as you drive. The key to which wheel is in too much is your steering wheel. First get your toe adjusted properly, then look at your steering wheel as you drive. If the wheel is too far to the right, then make *EQUAL* adjustments to your right and left tie-rods to move the steering wheel back to center. Make sense?
How do I adjust each tie rod end to get the wheel back straight? I thought the coupling between the drag link and tie rod end attached to the pitman arm was adjusted to straighten the wheel up.
I did test drive it and it seemed a little better. If I held the steering wheel centered it drove straight. So if I can get that centered back up I think I will be good to go.
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Yes ... you are right about that. When you raise the vehicle, it effectively shortens the drag link a little. Adjust the sleeve to lengthen the drag link, and it will move both wheels to the right a little, which will move the steering wheel back to the left.Originally Posted by Marks2000XJ
How do I adjust each tie rod end to get the wheel back straight? I thought the coupling between the drag link and tie rod end attached to the pitman arm was adjusted to straighten the wheel up.
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I don't think adjusting the drag link length will affect your pull much. Give it a try, but if you are still experiencing some pull, you should look into the track bar placement issue.Originally Posted by Marks2000XJ
I did test drive it and it seemed a little better. If I held the steering wheel centered it drove straight. So if I can get that centered back up I think I will be good to go.
You are making good progress, and this problem *WILL* get solved. You just have to have more energy than the problem.
Senior Member
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How do I adjust each tie rod end to get the wheel back straight? I thought the coupling between the drag link and tie rod end attached to the pitman arm was adjusted to straighten the wheel up.
I did test drive it and it seemed a little better. If I held the steering wheel centered it drove straight. So if I can get that centered back up I think I will be good to go.
Glad to see you are working out the problems. Question... Where did you measure from? Hopefully not from the sidewalls. You should measure on the rim since the tires can have imperfections. Granted we are only taking a few 1/8's of an inch but sometimes you need to be critical.Originally Posted by Marks2000XJ
Alright. With a little PB blaster and some heat I managed to break the tie rod loose. Got the front wheels adjusted. Front of tires now measure 58-1/16" and rear measure 58-1/8". I called it close enough. So just as you said, the steering wheel is now slightly turned to the right. It seems if I adjust this back to center then the steering will completely straighten out as in no pull to the right.How do I adjust each tie rod end to get the wheel back straight? I thought the coupling between the drag link and tie rod end attached to the pitman arm was adjusted to straighten the wheel up.
I did test drive it and it seemed a little better. If I held the steering wheel centered it drove straight. So if I can get that centered back up I think I will be good to go.
Once you get the toe in adjusted properly, you can straighten the wheel buy loosening the 2 15mm nuts on the adjuster and turn it in the opposite direction you need the steering wheel to go. It won't turn the wheels, you'll see the position of the pitman arm at the steering box itself change.
You can't make one tire turn more than the other with the stock steering unless you drop the drivers side tie rod end and spin it out a few threads and reinstall it. Problem is, your toe in will need to be adjusted again and putting you right back where you were. This is due to how the tie rod connects to the drag link.
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Good point ... I didn't mean to imply he would see the wheels moving while he was doing the adjustment. I just meant that lengthening the drag link will "in effect" move the wheels to the right, causing the steering wheel to compensate while driving by moving to the left.Originally Posted by Lyon
It won't turn the wheels, you'll see the position of the pitman arm at the steering box itself change.
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Yes, that's true ... another good point. I got my VW Beetle tie rods mixed up in my head with the XJ. Long day.Originally Posted by Lyon
You can't make one tire turn more than the other with the stock steering unless you drop the drivers side tie rod end and spin it out a few threads and reinstall it.
Senior Member
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Yes, that's true ... another good point. I got my VW Beetle tie rods mixed up in my head with the XJ. Long day.
Cool man! We're all here to help. Originally Posted by montanaman
Good point ... I didn't mean to imply he would see the wheels moving while he was doing the adjustment. I just meant that lengthening the drag link will "in effect" move the wheels to the right, causing the steering wheel to compensate while driving by moving to the left.Yes, that's true ... another good point. I got my VW Beetle tie rods mixed up in my head with the XJ. Long day.
Junior Member
Since you have that tie rod free now, I would get it aligned at a shop on a rack. They can be more accurate than your tape measure. If your steering wheel is not centered, adjust the drag link only. This will keep your toe values. An actual rack alignment will use both the drag link and the tie rod to adjust the toe of each wheel independantly because they will lock the steering wheel in the center position.
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I don't think adjusting the drag link length will affect your pull much. Give it a try, but if you are still experiencing some pull, you should look into the track bar placement issue.
You are making good progress, and this problem *WILL* get solved. You just have to have more energy than the problem.
Will try adjusting the sleeve on the drag link tonight and see what happens. If that does not cure it I will throw the new track bar on this weekend. Probably will do that anyway regardless.Originally Posted by montanaman
Yes ... you are right about that. When you raise the vehicle, it effectively shortens the drag link a little. Adjust the sleeve to lengthen the drag link, and it will move both wheels to the right a little, which will move the steering wheel back to the left.I don't think adjusting the drag link length will affect your pull much. Give it a try, but if you are still experiencing some pull, you should look into the track bar placement issue.
You are making good progress, and this problem *WILL* get solved. You just have to have more energy than the problem.
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Once you get the toe in adjusted properly, you can straighten the wheel buy loosening the 2 15mm nuts on the adjuster and turn it in the opposite direction you need the steering wheel to go. It won't turn the wheels, you'll see the position of the pitman arm at the steering box itself change.
You can't make one tire turn more than the other with the stock steering unless you drop the drivers side tie rod end and spin it out a few threads and reinstall it. Problem is, your toe in will need to be adjusted again and putting you right back where you were. This is due to how the tie rod connects to the drag link.
I put some reference marks on the center of the tires front and rear and measured that. I got it a lot better than it was. I did not think you could adjust the tie rod ends without taking one side loose. I am not going to worry about that just yet.Originally Posted by Lyon
Glad to see you are working out the problems. Question... Where did you measure from? Hopefully not from the sidewalls. You should measure on the rim since the tires can have imperfections. Granted we are only taking a few 1/8's of an inch but sometimes you need to be critical.Once you get the toe in adjusted properly, you can straighten the wheel buy loosening the 2 15mm nuts on the adjuster and turn it in the opposite direction you need the steering wheel to go. It won't turn the wheels, you'll see the position of the pitman arm at the steering box itself change.
You can't make one tire turn more than the other with the stock steering unless you drop the drivers side tie rod end and spin it out a few threads and reinstall it. Problem is, your toe in will need to be adjusted again and putting you right back where you were. This is due to how the tie rod connects to the drag link.
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I plan on doing that after I lift it more. I just wanted to get it close so it will quit pulling to the right when I drive it now. It did improve getting the toe adjusted. When I drove it to work this morning it is not near as bad as it was.Originally Posted by classicxj2000
Since you have that tie rod free now, I would get it aligned at a shop on a rack. They can be more accurate than your tape measure. If your steering wheel is not centered, adjust the drag link only. This will keep your toe values. An actual rack alignment will use both the drag link and the tie rod to adjust the toe of each wheel independantly because they will lock the steering wheel in the center position.
Thanks to everyone for your input so far. I will keep you updated as I go along on this. Maybe this will help others in the future.
Okay. All went well tonight as far as getting the steering wheel straightened back out. The sleeve was not stuck like the tie rod so all I had to do is loosen the clamps and turn the sleeve. Test drove it and still a slight pull to the right. I was hoping I was done.
On to my next theory. So the vehicle is pulling right. When the steering wheel is lined up straight and you go to the front of the vehicle, it appears the passenger front wheel is turned out slightly. The drivers side lines up with the driver side rear wheel pretty good.
So I thought to myself, why don't I turn the steering to the left and get the passenger side wheel lined up with the rear? Then the drivers side will be pointed out. Undo the tie rod end on the drivers side, run it in a thread or two, pull the wheel back in straight with the rear tire and bolt the tie rod end back up. Then, theoretically both front wheels should be lined up with the rear wheels. Adjust the toe again, re-align the steering wheel and all should be good?
If you are wondering why I am going through all this trouble, it's because I have nothing better to do and I am learning some stuff in the process. Yeah I could take it to an alignment shop, and I will after it gets lifted more, but for now I am just having fun.
On to my next theory. So the vehicle is pulling right. When the steering wheel is lined up straight and you go to the front of the vehicle, it appears the passenger front wheel is turned out slightly. The drivers side lines up with the driver side rear wheel pretty good.
So I thought to myself, why don't I turn the steering to the left and get the passenger side wheel lined up with the rear? Then the drivers side will be pointed out. Undo the tie rod end on the drivers side, run it in a thread or two, pull the wheel back in straight with the rear tire and bolt the tie rod end back up. Then, theoretically both front wheels should be lined up with the rear wheels. Adjust the toe again, re-align the steering wheel and all should be good?
If you are wondering why I am going through all this trouble, it's because I have nothing better to do and I am learning some stuff in the process. Yeah I could take it to an alignment shop, and I will after it gets lifted more, but for now I am just having fun.
Senior Member
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On to my next theory. So the vehicle is pulling right. When the steering wheel is lined up straight and you go to the front of the vehicle, it appears the passenger front wheel is turned out slightly. The drivers side lines up with the driver side rear wheel pretty good.
So I thought to myself, why don't I turn the steering to the left and get the passenger side wheel lined up with the rear? Then the drivers side will be pointed out. Undo the tie rod end on the drivers side, run it in a thread or two, pull the wheel back in straight with the rear tire and bolt the tie rod end back up. Then, theoretically both front wheels should be lined up with the rear wheels. Adjust the toe again, re-align the steering wheel and all should be good?
If you are wondering why I am going through all this trouble, it's because I have nothing better to do and I am learning some stuff in the process. Yeah I could take it to an alignment shop, and I will after it gets lifted more, but for now I am just having fun.
Mark, it's got to be an illusion. If your toe is set correctly (within 1/8-1/4 inch) then the tire can't be turned more than the other. If you were to pull the tie rod end off the drivers side and turned it in a few turns, then your toe in will be toed in too much. You'll then adjust the tie rod again to reset it and the wheels will be back in the same position again. Originally Posted by Marks2000XJ
Okay. All went well tonight as far as getting the steering wheel straightened back out. The sleeve was not stuck like the tie rod so all I had to do is loosen the clamps and turn the sleeve. Test drove it and still a slight pull to the right. I was hoping I was done.On to my next theory. So the vehicle is pulling right. When the steering wheel is lined up straight and you go to the front of the vehicle, it appears the passenger front wheel is turned out slightly. The drivers side lines up with the driver side rear wheel pretty good.
So I thought to myself, why don't I turn the steering to the left and get the passenger side wheel lined up with the rear? Then the drivers side will be pointed out. Undo the tie rod end on the drivers side, run it in a thread or two, pull the wheel back in straight with the rear tire and bolt the tie rod end back up. Then, theoretically both front wheels should be lined up with the rear wheels. Adjust the toe again, re-align the steering wheel and all should be good?
If you are wondering why I am going through all this trouble, it's because I have nothing better to do and I am learning some stuff in the process. Yeah I could take it to an alignment shop, and I will after it gets lifted more, but for now I am just having fun.
I would really look in to a cross caster problem. Meaning, get an angle finder and take caster degree readings on both sides and make sure they are the same. Which ever side has the least amount of caster, it will pull to that side. Just double check that all your control arm bushings and track bar bushing are all good.