Are all long arms created equally
Seasoned Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 279
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From: Leesburg GA
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L
i know what all linked suspensions are, but not to hijack a thread, but have also wanted to know why people say not to go with 3 link for daily driver or high speed. Full tractions 4 link kit is jeep speed ready and i think RK makes one. my understanding is that IF you do have a failure with a 3 link it is BAD - but with a 4 link there are still other links to help control the axle. I have been really looking at a FT lift but like the idea of a 3link, but my ride is a daily driver and when we do go offroad we do more of exploring and long road trips to get there, no hardcore rocks.
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CF Veteran
Joined: Feb 2012
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From: Boone, NC
Year: 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L
Hijack away, that was a good question. Im getting a pretty good grasp but keep posting more descriptions. Like ive seen a reversed 3 link. Dont know wat thats about
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CF Veteran
Joined: Feb 2012
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From: Boone, NC
Year: 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L
Originally Posted by Lead Foot
Haha! Why no PVC you ask? Ill be sure to touch on that in the description!
Yep, no problem down the highway, I have actually driven my jeep lifted 6.5" on 35s over a winding mountain pass hitting speeds of 90 mph. No problems, and dare I say no sway bars either?...
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From: Michigan
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Thread Starter
CF Veteran
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,424
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From: Boone, NC
Year: 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L
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i never had a sole comp rig, just some rigs that i entered in a couple comps here and there. but no, I built my own.
Thread Starter
CF Veteran
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,424
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From: Boone, NC
Year: 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L
Seasoned Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 279
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From: Leesburg GA
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L
i cant afford multiple offroad rigs thats why my DD is my offroad rig and i want the most reliable and safe setup even if it cost me more $. i will sacrifice some flex for durability and saftey. i know all bushings and such need to be replaced every now and then but some like RC tear up quick. i like the idea of BDS no fine print warranty and they also make a 4-link with track bar. i have been really looking at FST also but there really isnt a good disc of his 4link. i would love to have a very reliable low center of gravity kit (i know it will require lots of fender trimming, not scared of that, thats why im getting Hoolagin fenders) to fit 35's or even 37's, have the front a triangulated TRUE 4link with no pan hard or track bar, 10% up travel and 90% down travel. the front arms could have a bend in them for tire clearance to prevent scrub, the rear have buggy springs and a center mounted traction bar that ran beside the drive shaft to protect the yoke and drive shaft. iv seen this set up on plenty of TJ's running LCG 4" kits and 42's and sams offroad makes a traction bar like that for YJ's, TJ's and CJ's so why cant someone step up and make one for the XJ's?
Last edited by blue dog; Dec 5, 2012 at 06:24 AM.
Cherokee Forum Vendor
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,448
Likes: 2
From: Lynden, WA
Year: 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Our 4 link has a description... https://froehlichsuspension.3dcartst...rade_p_10.html Just didnt want to write a book on the website, readers eyes tend to glaze over. lol
I like talking to my customers anyways, so what kind of questions do you have? Feel free to ask.
Kris Froehlich
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 279
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From: Leesburg GA
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L
thanks for posting that - i must have missed it - i was looking in the other section.
but my question for your company is
- is your 4link fully bolt on?
- if so would you consider it great for a daily driver that will see 90% roads and mild offroad with gear and kids in the back? - i see a lot of mt roads so lots of twist and turns.
does this kit nose dive?
-how reliable are the links? rebuildable?
-is the rear buggy spring an option?
last question is not suspension related - but how many mounting points does your rear bumper have? im lovin the looks but just curious if thats a gas tank sort of skid built in?
and this is to all companys -
- why not a true 4 link up front with no track bar?
-and why no traction bar bassed in the middle of the axle that also protects the rear shaft?
but my question for your company is
- is your 4link fully bolt on?
- if so would you consider it great for a daily driver that will see 90% roads and mild offroad with gear and kids in the back? - i see a lot of mt roads so lots of twist and turns.
does this kit nose dive?
-how reliable are the links? rebuildable?
-is the rear buggy spring an option?
last question is not suspension related - but how many mounting points does your rear bumper have? im lovin the looks but just curious if thats a gas tank sort of skid built in?
and this is to all companys -
- why not a true 4 link up front with no track bar?
-and why no traction bar bassed in the middle of the axle that also protects the rear shaft?
Last edited by blue dog; Dec 5, 2012 at 06:44 PM.
CF Veteran
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Model: Cherokee
Given the space constraints under an XJ, a true 4-link front that would allow the deletion of a track-bar is extremely difficult to engineer, much less install.
If there was a cost effective way to do it and there was a large enough market (demand) it would have been done a long time ago. Bottom line, the vast majority XJ owners aren't willing to pony up the cash for something like this.
If there was a cost effective way to do it and there was a large enough market (demand) it would have been done a long time ago. Bottom line, the vast majority XJ owners aren't willing to pony up the cash for something like this.
Cherokee Forum Vendor
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,448
Likes: 2
From: Lynden, WA
Year: 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
k
thanks for posting that - i must have missed it - i was looking in the other section.
but my question for your company is
- is your 4link fully bolt on?
Our kit is bolt on just as much as most other manufacturers. You will need to cut off the stock LCA frame mounts as well as trim the pinch seam a tad where the new frame mounts sit. You will also need to drill 2 holes through both frame rails for additional mounting bolts and drill the LCA axle mounts out to 5/8s. Then bolt everything on.
- if so would you consider it great for a daily driver that will see 90% roads and mild offroad with gear and kids in the back? - i see a lot of mt roads so lots of twist and turns.
All of our kits have great streetable manners. Me and many others have daily driven our rigs running our 3 links and 4 links over mountain passes at freeway speeds with no problems. Then wheeled some trails and cruised the 90 miles home.
does this kit nose dive?
Nose diving is an effect of weight transfer upon hard braking as well as link geometry. Because our kits are not radius arms but instead true 3 and 4 link kits with calculated link seperation at the axle and frame; we have been able to produce kits with better anti-squat/anti-dive numbers. We have never had a customer complain about the nose of their rig diving more then normal upon hard braking.
-how reliable are the links? rebuildable?
Our lower links are made from 1-3/4" SOLID hex steel drilled and tapped for left and right hand 1-1/4" Heim joints from Ruffstuff Specialties. These are heat and cryo treated chromoly joint with nylon injected races for longer life and smoother operation. Our upper links are made from 1-1/4" solid hex steel and equipped with the same great left hand heims in 7/8" on the frame side and a right hand threaded "female adapter" in a "U" shape that will bolt onto the existing UCA axle mounts. This way you dont have to unbolt the control arm to adjust the length. We dont know of another company that offers this option on a 4 link or radius arm setup. You can buy replacement joints from Ruffstuff or us with a 10 percent discount.
-is the rear buggy spring an option?
The buggy spring I had on my second jeep was a fun and interesting experiment but we dont plan to offer it as a standard product on our site. We will be offering shackle relocation brackets and you will find you can get as much flex out of your leaf springs as you need when setup with a proper shackle angle.
last question is not suspension related - but how many mounting points does your rear bumper have? im lovin the looks but just curious if thats a gas tank sort of skid built in?
Our rear bumper mounts to the same bolt locations as the stock tow packages do, just like most other companies. The mounts are made from press broken 1/4" while the rest of the bumper is 3/16. The departure skid flows down right to the back of where the gas tank and gas tank skid are. This offers a smooth transition. You would need to purchase a gas tank skid seperately if you wanted one.
and this is to all companys -
- why not a true 4 link up front with no track bar?
I briefly touched on this in the descriptions I need to finish. With a properly set up track bar and draglink; your front axle actually travels in a slight arc side to side when the axle cycles through travel. That is why it is so important that your draglink and track bar compliment each other. You want these arcs to be consistent with eachother and actually line up perfectly if possible. With a triangulated link suspension and no track bar, your axle travels strait up and down with no side to side movement. If you still use the standard mechanical steering setup equipped with a draglink then you will induce a ton of bump steer as the suspension travels. Does that make sense? In order to run a triangulated 4 link system on a steering axle, you would need to run hydraulic steering.
-and why no traction bar bassed in the middle of the axle that also protects the rear shaft?
That doesnt look like such a bad idea. I prefer a rear link suspension which gets rid of axle wrap issues all together. Maybe we will look into designing a rear traction bar for you guys.
but my question for your company is
- is your 4link fully bolt on?
Our kit is bolt on just as much as most other manufacturers. You will need to cut off the stock LCA frame mounts as well as trim the pinch seam a tad where the new frame mounts sit. You will also need to drill 2 holes through both frame rails for additional mounting bolts and drill the LCA axle mounts out to 5/8s. Then bolt everything on.
- if so would you consider it great for a daily driver that will see 90% roads and mild offroad with gear and kids in the back? - i see a lot of mt roads so lots of twist and turns.
All of our kits have great streetable manners. Me and many others have daily driven our rigs running our 3 links and 4 links over mountain passes at freeway speeds with no problems. Then wheeled some trails and cruised the 90 miles home.
does this kit nose dive?
Nose diving is an effect of weight transfer upon hard braking as well as link geometry. Because our kits are not radius arms but instead true 3 and 4 link kits with calculated link seperation at the axle and frame; we have been able to produce kits with better anti-squat/anti-dive numbers. We have never had a customer complain about the nose of their rig diving more then normal upon hard braking.
-how reliable are the links? rebuildable?
Our lower links are made from 1-3/4" SOLID hex steel drilled and tapped for left and right hand 1-1/4" Heim joints from Ruffstuff Specialties. These are heat and cryo treated chromoly joint with nylon injected races for longer life and smoother operation. Our upper links are made from 1-1/4" solid hex steel and equipped with the same great left hand heims in 7/8" on the frame side and a right hand threaded "female adapter" in a "U" shape that will bolt onto the existing UCA axle mounts. This way you dont have to unbolt the control arm to adjust the length. We dont know of another company that offers this option on a 4 link or radius arm setup. You can buy replacement joints from Ruffstuff or us with a 10 percent discount.
-is the rear buggy spring an option?
The buggy spring I had on my second jeep was a fun and interesting experiment but we dont plan to offer it as a standard product on our site. We will be offering shackle relocation brackets and you will find you can get as much flex out of your leaf springs as you need when setup with a proper shackle angle.
last question is not suspension related - but how many mounting points does your rear bumper have? im lovin the looks but just curious if thats a gas tank sort of skid built in?
Our rear bumper mounts to the same bolt locations as the stock tow packages do, just like most other companies. The mounts are made from press broken 1/4" while the rest of the bumper is 3/16. The departure skid flows down right to the back of where the gas tank and gas tank skid are. This offers a smooth transition. You would need to purchase a gas tank skid seperately if you wanted one.
and this is to all companys -
- why not a true 4 link up front with no track bar?
I briefly touched on this in the descriptions I need to finish. With a properly set up track bar and draglink; your front axle actually travels in a slight arc side to side when the axle cycles through travel. That is why it is so important that your draglink and track bar compliment each other. You want these arcs to be consistent with eachother and actually line up perfectly if possible. With a triangulated link suspension and no track bar, your axle travels strait up and down with no side to side movement. If you still use the standard mechanical steering setup equipped with a draglink then you will induce a ton of bump steer as the suspension travels. Does that make sense? In order to run a triangulated 4 link system on a steering axle, you would need to run hydraulic steering.
-and why no traction bar bassed in the middle of the axle that also protects the rear shaft?
That doesnt look like such a bad idea. I prefer a rear link suspension which gets rid of axle wrap issues all together. Maybe we will look into designing a rear traction bar for you guys.
Last edited by Lead Foot; Dec 5, 2012 at 07:27 PM.