A very dissatisfied Rubicon Express customer
03-23-2010, 03:09 PM
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Year: 1996
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 2.5L I-4
A very dissatisfied Rubicon Express customer
Hey gang.
I haven't been around the forum in QUITE some time, but I thought this warranted a comeback. Long story short - Rubicon Express won't ever get another cent of my money. Now for the reason(s) ... (this is long, but in your best interests, please read)
About a year ago I noticed one of my RE mono-tube shocks (rear) was leaking fluid. I inspected the shock for abnormal wear and saw none, but the seal had clearly deteriorated. I spoke to their customer service who asked that I file the complaint through the vendor (Quadratec). Fair enough - so I contacted Quadratec who is normally very helpful. They spoke to RE for me and came back to inform me that "Rubicon Express will not warranty their shocks if they use salt on the roads where you live." ... Sorry I don't live 20 miles from the Rubicon Trail in sunny California, maybe you should just make your shock seals with better materials.
Clearly companies like Rough Country, Rancho, Skyjacker, et al. understand this principle.
Anywho, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and thought maybe it was a fluke. I'm not hard on my Jeep, in fact I hardly ever get a chance to wheel it, but maybe I was just unlucky enough to get a flawed shock. Afterall if it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all.
So I bought a set of Skyjacker Hydros and called it good (which by the way are still running strong).
But fast forward 9 or 10 months to two weekends ago. After noticing uneven wear on my front tires I had an alignment shop take a look at the front end who deemed that I needed to replace two ball joints. In the interest of not tearing it all apart twice - I replaced all 4. Had I not done so it might have taken me even longer to notice this ...
Yep, that's right ... my driver's side coil spring is literally broken in half.
How long has it been like this? No idea. But in all my years around Jeeps I have never, EVER, seen a coil spring break in half. Not in the mud, not on the rocks, not slamming down off of ledges, and not jumping the front end up and down trying to climb a root-covered hillside. Never. I've seen shocks blow out, I've seen control arm brackets sheered, I've seen tie-rod ends snapped, I've seen driveshafts twisted like a rung-out wash cloth, and I've seen axle shafts break in half and a Jeep left standing there like a three-legged dog. ... But I have NEVER seen coil spring break in half.
Need I remind you that this a DD. It seems at minimum 250 miles a week, but most of time quite a bit more. It's taken off-road maybe 3 or 4 times a year outside of weekend camping trips up old logging roads, in places a stock Jeep could make it but a lift and tires makes it easier. It's babied, because come Monday morning it's got a 20 mile drive to get me to work. So a broken coil spring is the absolute LAST thing I would expect to find next to a broken leaf spring.
Rather than reiterate the entire conversation, here's how the "customer service" transaction went when I contacted RE ...
Again, Rubicon Express WILL NOT receive another cent of my money. They advertise themselves, and forum feedback reiterates their reputation as the "top of the line" suspension provider for Jeep enthusiasts. Perhaps if you live in the deserts of the West, you'll have better luck. But for the rest of us, for them to not once, but TWICE, argue that their products will not stand up to road salt (a shock, maybe, but a coil spring??) - then I would think twice about purchasing anything from Rubicon Express outside of a t-shirt. Although you never know, the California cotton fibers might melt right off your back should you dare to step outside. 
I haven't been around the forum in QUITE some time, but I thought this warranted a comeback. Long story short - Rubicon Express won't ever get another cent of my money. Now for the reason(s) ... (this is long, but in your best interests, please read)
About a year ago I noticed one of my RE mono-tube shocks (rear) was leaking fluid. I inspected the shock for abnormal wear and saw none, but the seal had clearly deteriorated. I spoke to their customer service who asked that I file the complaint through the vendor (Quadratec). Fair enough - so I contacted Quadratec who is normally very helpful. They spoke to RE for me and came back to inform me that "Rubicon Express will not warranty their shocks if they use salt on the roads where you live." ... Sorry I don't live 20 miles from the Rubicon Trail in sunny California, maybe you should just make your shock seals with better materials.
Clearly companies like Rough Country, Rancho, Skyjacker, et al. understand this principle.Anywho, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and thought maybe it was a fluke. I'm not hard on my Jeep, in fact I hardly ever get a chance to wheel it, but maybe I was just unlucky enough to get a flawed shock. Afterall if it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all.
So I bought a set of Skyjacker Hydros and called it good (which by the way are still running strong).
But fast forward 9 or 10 months to two weekends ago. After noticing uneven wear on my front tires I had an alignment shop take a look at the front end who deemed that I needed to replace two ball joints. In the interest of not tearing it all apart twice - I replaced all 4. Had I not done so it might have taken me even longer to notice this ...
Yep, that's right ... my driver's side coil spring is literally broken in half.
How long has it been like this? No idea. But in all my years around Jeeps I have never, EVER, seen a coil spring break in half. Not in the mud, not on the rocks, not slamming down off of ledges, and not jumping the front end up and down trying to climb a root-covered hillside. Never. I've seen shocks blow out, I've seen control arm brackets sheered, I've seen tie-rod ends snapped, I've seen driveshafts twisted like a rung-out wash cloth, and I've seen axle shafts break in half and a Jeep left standing there like a three-legged dog. ... But I have NEVER seen coil spring break in half.Need I remind you that this a DD. It seems at minimum 250 miles a week, but most of time quite a bit more. It's taken off-road maybe 3 or 4 times a year outside of weekend camping trips up old logging roads, in places a stock Jeep could make it but a lift and tires makes it easier. It's babied, because come Monday morning it's got a 20 mile drive to get me to work. So a broken coil spring is the absolute LAST thing I would expect to find next to a broken leaf spring.
Rather than reiterate the entire conversation, here's how the "customer service" transaction went when I contacted RE ...
Mike,
We spoke yesterday about the broken coil spring on my XJ. As I said in our phone conversation, this is a daily driver XJ that sees about 95% pavement. It's seen a few trails but is mostly used for camping trips in areas a stock Jeep could probably make it, but the lift and tires just make it easier. I've seen a lot of Jeeps used and abused to the limits of their capabilities, but I've never seen a coil spring break, even under the most heinous amounts of stress, and my Jeep sees more potholes than rocks. I don't know how long it's been like this, as I just noticed it over the weekend when replacing the still factory ball joints.
What I didn't mention yesterday is that this is actually the second Rubicon Express part that's failed me. Last year I attempted to file a complaint about a broken rear shock (RE mono-tube), that began leaking after about a year and half and eventually seized up under the Jeep. I was told to place the complaint through Quadratec, and after some brief communication I never heard back from them. Being that it's a DD and that it sees quite a few miles in a week, I just bit the bullet and replaced all 4 shocks with Skyjacker Hydros rather than wait it out any longer. At the time I thought maybe it was a fluke - that I just got a bad shock - but now that the coil spring has broken under very little stress (certainly not the amount of stress you advertise your products can stand up to, and I would hope not the amount of stress they were designed to withstand), I'm beginning to hold a poor opinion of RE's products.
From an economic standpoint it would have made more sense for me to go with Rough Country when I decided to modify the Jeep, as I don't make a lot of money, but being that it's a DD and that it sees a lot of miles, I listened to reviews and forum feedback and went with RE. The old adage when comparing RC and RE is that "You get what you pay for." If that's truly the case, then I'm confused on what exactly it is that I paid for ...
Like most Jeep enthusiasts I frequent a lot of online forums and I've shared my experiences with many of them. I don't intend to turn people away from Rubicon Express, but I'm hoping that in the interest of saving face and doing what's right, you'll be willing to rectify this situation.
Thanks Mike. I hope to hear from you soon.
-Kyle
Kyle—I have forwarded your e-mail to the sales manager and production manager.I personally will be out of the office tomorrow so more than likely will not be able to get back with you until Thursday.I am sorry to hear of the issues you had regarding the shock.The dealer who you purchased the product through should have take care of that issue but unfortunately that is not something we are able to control.Thank you for all of the information regarding your purchase however if you have an actual invoice as well that is certainly preferred.Regarding the shock—it is not a run of the mill mainstream type shock.That shock is made by Edelbrock on a private label basis so we do expect to have a good quality It kind of annoys me that they got off so easy.
Mike Koenig
Rubicon Express Sales
916-473-4603 direct line
866-284-7309 direct fax
Thank you Mike. I have the packing list that your warehouse sent with my order. I'll scan it tomorrow at my office and send it to you for verification. Had I known you were relying on someone else for the quality of your shocks (and your name), I would have worked harder to bring that to your attention. I do honestly believe that there was a fault in the shock, as I sold the other three in good working condition to a friend of mine who's still using them on his trail Jeep to this day.
Kyle—we will warranty the one spring but I would probably advise checking the other one more closely.I am somewhat concerned about only one cracking and also if you only replace one it may sit crooked.Let me know
Mike Koenig
Rubicon Express Sales
916-473-4603 direct line
866-284-7309 direct fax
Mike,
I agree with your concerns about the Jeep sitting crooked - a new spring will surely be more stiff than a three year old spring. If you're truly concerned I would hope you would warranty me a new SET of springs. Vehicle inspections in WV are very strict, and if one side of the suspension is within an inch higher or lower, or is even visibly off-kilter, I'll no doubt be red-flagged. Whatever flaw caused the coil spring to crack was no fault of my own, and I stand to gain nothing by getting two new springs except avoiding the headaches that an uneven suspension will cause, both from the inspection station and subsequently the law, not to mention the potential road manners - it's not like I can sell ONE spring.
Your product failed, and giving me one spring will only half-fix the issue and cause several new ones.
-Kyle
Kyle—if only one spring is broken then that is all that gets warrantied.As time goes on springs do settle and that is normal .If you need two springs we will gladly do a pro-ration.
Mike Koenig
Rubicon Express Sales
916-473-4603 direct line
866-284-7309 direct fax
and my most recent response ...
Mike,
I understand that it's normal for a spring to settle -- it's not the other spring I have a problem with. What's not normal is to have a coil spring break in half, putting me in a compromising situation where I have one spring that has faulted and one that has not, meaning that if you were to warranty only that spring, I'd be in a no-less compromising situation because my Jeep would very likely sit crooked. In other words, by fault of your product breaking, and by fault of you only wanting to warranty ONE spring, your company will have caused a chain of compromising situations.
I understand that the other spring has not failed, but sending me ONE new spring doesn't eliminate my problem, it only causes a new one. You have yet to offer me a real solution, which would be to send me a new SET of springs to fully right the wrong. I don't feel this is asking too much.
We spoke yesterday about the broken coil spring on my XJ. As I said in our phone conversation, this is a daily driver XJ that sees about 95% pavement. It's seen a few trails but is mostly used for camping trips in areas a stock Jeep could probably make it, but the lift and tires just make it easier. I've seen a lot of Jeeps used and abused to the limits of their capabilities, but I've never seen a coil spring break, even under the most heinous amounts of stress, and my Jeep sees more potholes than rocks. I don't know how long it's been like this, as I just noticed it over the weekend when replacing the still factory ball joints.
What I didn't mention yesterday is that this is actually the second Rubicon Express part that's failed me. Last year I attempted to file a complaint about a broken rear shock (RE mono-tube), that began leaking after about a year and half and eventually seized up under the Jeep. I was told to place the complaint through Quadratec, and after some brief communication I never heard back from them. Being that it's a DD and that it sees quite a few miles in a week, I just bit the bullet and replaced all 4 shocks with Skyjacker Hydros rather than wait it out any longer. At the time I thought maybe it was a fluke - that I just got a bad shock - but now that the coil spring has broken under very little stress (certainly not the amount of stress you advertise your products can stand up to, and I would hope not the amount of stress they were designed to withstand), I'm beginning to hold a poor opinion of RE's products.
From an economic standpoint it would have made more sense for me to go with Rough Country when I decided to modify the Jeep, as I don't make a lot of money, but being that it's a DD and that it sees a lot of miles, I listened to reviews and forum feedback and went with RE. The old adage when comparing RC and RE is that "You get what you pay for." If that's truly the case, then I'm confused on what exactly it is that I paid for ...
Like most Jeep enthusiasts I frequent a lot of online forums and I've shared my experiences with many of them. I don't intend to turn people away from Rubicon Express, but I'm hoping that in the interest of saving face and doing what's right, you'll be willing to rectify this situation.
Thanks Mike. I hope to hear from you soon.
-Kyle
Kyle—I have forwarded your e-mail to the sales manager and production manager.I personally will be out of the office tomorrow so more than likely will not be able to get back with you until Thursday.I am sorry to hear of the issues you had regarding the shock.The dealer who you purchased the product through should have take care of that issue but unfortunately that is not something we are able to control.Thank you for all of the information regarding your purchase however if you have an actual invoice as well that is certainly preferred.Regarding the shock—it is not a run of the mill mainstream type shock.That shock is made by Edelbrock on a private label basis so we do expect to have a good quality It kind of annoys me that they got off so easy.
Mike Koenig
Rubicon Express Sales
916-473-4603 direct line
866-284-7309 direct fax
Thank you Mike. I have the packing list that your warehouse sent with my order. I'll scan it tomorrow at my office and send it to you for verification. Had I known you were relying on someone else for the quality of your shocks (and your name), I would have worked harder to bring that to your attention. I do honestly believe that there was a fault in the shock, as I sold the other three in good working condition to a friend of mine who's still using them on his trail Jeep to this day.
Kyle—we will warranty the one spring but I would probably advise checking the other one more closely.I am somewhat concerned about only one cracking and also if you only replace one it may sit crooked.Let me know
Mike Koenig
Rubicon Express Sales
916-473-4603 direct line
866-284-7309 direct fax
Mike,
I agree with your concerns about the Jeep sitting crooked - a new spring will surely be more stiff than a three year old spring. If you're truly concerned I would hope you would warranty me a new SET of springs. Vehicle inspections in WV are very strict, and if one side of the suspension is within an inch higher or lower, or is even visibly off-kilter, I'll no doubt be red-flagged. Whatever flaw caused the coil spring to crack was no fault of my own, and I stand to gain nothing by getting two new springs except avoiding the headaches that an uneven suspension will cause, both from the inspection station and subsequently the law, not to mention the potential road manners - it's not like I can sell ONE spring.
Your product failed, and giving me one spring will only half-fix the issue and cause several new ones.
-Kyle
Kyle—if only one spring is broken then that is all that gets warrantied.As time goes on springs do settle and that is normal .If you need two springs we will gladly do a pro-ration.
Mike Koenig
Rubicon Express Sales
916-473-4603 direct line
866-284-7309 direct fax
and my most recent response ...
Mike,
I understand that it's normal for a spring to settle -- it's not the other spring I have a problem with. What's not normal is to have a coil spring break in half, putting me in a compromising situation where I have one spring that has faulted and one that has not, meaning that if you were to warranty only that spring, I'd be in a no-less compromising situation because my Jeep would very likely sit crooked. In other words, by fault of your product breaking, and by fault of you only wanting to warranty ONE spring, your company will have caused a chain of compromising situations.
I understand that the other spring has not failed, but sending me ONE new spring doesn't eliminate my problem, it only causes a new one. You have yet to offer me a real solution, which would be to send me a new SET of springs to fully right the wrong. I don't feel this is asking too much.
03-23-2010, 03:17 PM
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I don't see the issue here. One item broke, and they replaced it. The issue of the remaining spring having settled will be a moot one once the new one settles. Mike didn't seem to be anything but up-front and honest with you about the settling issue, but the fact is the one spring broke...and you got a new one.
Was this really worth making a post on this forum for and potentially causing drama?
Was this really worth making a post on this forum for and potentially causing drama?
03-23-2010, 03:23 PM
#3
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My friend had a RE lift on his TJ and blew the side wall out of his front driver's side shock. Got it replaced and literally his drivers side coil cracked. Didn't break like this one but cracked to where you could stick a flat head screw driver in the crack. I will stick with my Rough Country lifts. Haven't had a prob yet with it
03-23-2010, 04:11 PM
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I don't see the issue here. One item broke, and they replaced it. The issue of the remaining spring having settled will be a moot one once the new one settles. Mike didn't seem to be anything but up-front and honest with you about the settling issue, but the fact is the one spring broke...and you got a new one.
Was this really worth making a post on this forum for and potentially causing drama?
Was this really worth making a post on this forum for and potentially causing drama?
This post wasn't to cause drama, it was to share an experience with a company. Experience = shared.
03-23-2010, 04:29 PM
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That you're upset over a product failure is a valid one, and as I said I agree with you on it. When you pay for a product, you expect it to work 100%. However, there's always that exception. The fact that RE would replace the broken product shows a good commitment to customer service, especially when, from your correspondence, there was no way for them to know whether the product had been mistreated or not. In my opinion, and take it for what it's worth, RE did the right thing in replacing the broken product. They aren't obligated past that point to do anything else about it.
Which I recommend they do post-haste to avoid that altogether.
03-23-2010, 05:12 PM
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He offered to replace the broken spring. I would consider that addressing it.
From reading your post and reading your correspondence with Mike, I get the impression that, besides being upset that a product failed (and I agree with you; having a product fail is certainly disappointing), you weren't happy with the fact that he was only replacing one spring, thereby giving the front of your vehicle and uneven tilt because of the settling of the existing spring. Given enough time, the new spring will settle to match the old one, which does make that particular concern moot.
That you're upset over a product failure is a valid one, and as I said I agree with you on it. When you pay for a product, you expect it to work 100%. However, there's always that exception. The fact that RE would replace the broken product shows a good commitment to customer service, especially when, from your correspondence, there was no way for them to know whether the product had been mistreated or not. In my opinion, and take it for what it's worth, RE did the right thing in replacing the broken product. They aren't obligated past that point to do anything else about it.
By coming onto a public forum like this and sharing your experience, you open the discussion to biased points of view from every single person that reads it. By posting your experience with this company on a public forum as you have done, you have planted the seeds of drama. You may not have intended for that to happen, but I can foresee this thread continuing on for pages and eventually degenerating into a deep flame-fest until the moderators finally decide to lock it.
Which I recommend they do post-haste to avoid that altogether.
From reading your post and reading your correspondence with Mike, I get the impression that, besides being upset that a product failed (and I agree with you; having a product fail is certainly disappointing), you weren't happy with the fact that he was only replacing one spring, thereby giving the front of your vehicle and uneven tilt because of the settling of the existing spring. Given enough time, the new spring will settle to match the old one, which does make that particular concern moot.
That you're upset over a product failure is a valid one, and as I said I agree with you on it. When you pay for a product, you expect it to work 100%. However, there's always that exception. The fact that RE would replace the broken product shows a good commitment to customer service, especially when, from your correspondence, there was no way for them to know whether the product had been mistreated or not. In my opinion, and take it for what it's worth, RE did the right thing in replacing the broken product. They aren't obligated past that point to do anything else about it.
By coming onto a public forum like this and sharing your experience, you open the discussion to biased points of view from every single person that reads it. By posting your experience with this company on a public forum as you have done, you have planted the seeds of drama. You may not have intended for that to happen, but I can foresee this thread continuing on for pages and eventually degenerating into a deep flame-fest until the moderators finally decide to lock it.
Which I recommend they do post-haste to avoid that altogether.
And as most open forums go, we have two people of differing opinions. Shocking, I know ...
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03-23-2010, 05:34 PM
#8
This is a perfect example of what a forum is for. The shared knowledge of a common interest among individuals. Whether they be positive or negative, all opinions are welcome as long as the attitudes are kept in check and the language does get out of control. That being said gentlemen, have at it.
In my opinion on the matter at hand, I would strongly strongly that the coil springs be replaced in a set due to the off camber position of the vehicle with one new, and one used coil spring. In theory, if one was to damage a coil spring by abusing it, and by no fault of the manufacturers quality, the distributor would not sell you a single spring. They would strongly suggest the installation of a full set to keep the vehicle level.
In my opinion on the matter at hand, I would strongly strongly that the coil springs be replaced in a set due to the off camber position of the vehicle with one new, and one used coil spring. In theory, if one was to damage a coil spring by abusing it, and by no fault of the manufacturers quality, the distributor would not sell you a single spring. They would strongly suggest the installation of a full set to keep the vehicle level.
Last edited by winston427; 03-23-2010 at 05:39 PM.
03-23-2010, 05:50 PM
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This is exactly the kind of posting I like to see on forums. Actual customer & company interactions. When I go to buy a lift I want not only a good product, but a company that will really go the extra mile. These products arent cheap.
03-23-2010, 06:09 PM
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I'm certainly glad I read this. Might save alot of us some trouble in the future.
...took the words right out of my mouth.
03-23-2010, 06:38 PM
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Well figured I would toss these few things out there since we are speaking of opinions and experiences
I purchased a RE lift (2" bb) and bought it straight from RE and mike as my rep. He was pretty helpful with EVERYTHING I had questions on and issues with shock backorder. So far the equipment is great, but time will tell right?
Maybe going through a 3rd party when you can go straight to the cow for the milk is a better option if possible (ex. If purchasing re stuff order from re direct) that could be a lesson learned or a good thought to take away from this situation.
Now one question for the op, by chance did you have shock "boots" on the monotubes? Just curious on that...
As for my opinion on the coils, yeah its odd that one busted, and it would have been nice for them to send a set instead of one, but parts are usually replaced/refunded on part to part basis....not in sets. Maybe thats something else most of us can keep in mind to ask when ordering parts, ask even odd case scenarios on the part warranties. Like if one coil fails, will they replace in a set or single.
I agree though one new coil and one broke in coil will sit differently....at least for a while.
Just keep in mind, any NEW part can fail right out of the box. Its just something that happens from time to time. Most things are machine made, sadly not handcrafted if you know what Im saying......
Anyways thanks for sharing your experience, and sorry about the mishaps, it sucks when stuff like that happens when it does.
I purchased a RE lift (2" bb) and bought it straight from RE and mike as my rep. He was pretty helpful with EVERYTHING I had questions on and issues with shock backorder. So far the equipment is great, but time will tell right?
Maybe going through a 3rd party when you can go straight to the cow for the milk is a better option if possible (ex. If purchasing re stuff order from re direct) that could be a lesson learned or a good thought to take away from this situation.
Now one question for the op, by chance did you have shock "boots" on the monotubes? Just curious on that...
As for my opinion on the coils, yeah its odd that one busted, and it would have been nice for them to send a set instead of one, but parts are usually replaced/refunded on part to part basis....not in sets. Maybe thats something else most of us can keep in mind to ask when ordering parts, ask even odd case scenarios on the part warranties. Like if one coil fails, will they replace in a set or single.
I agree though one new coil and one broke in coil will sit differently....at least for a while.
Just keep in mind, any NEW part can fail right out of the box. Its just something that happens from time to time. Most things are machine made, sadly not handcrafted if you know what Im saying......
Anyways thanks for sharing your experience, and sorry about the mishaps, it sucks when stuff like that happens when it does.
03-23-2010, 06:47 PM
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i hate to say it, but this scenario defiantly seems like a company doing the least expensive job they can to attempt to help a customer. it would defiantly make more sense to have both spring replaced, addressing the camber and leveling of the jeep. but, when a company (that, frankly, i think should know better) by replacing only one seems like an attempt to keep cost to the company down. in the long run, let's say you did take the offer for one spring, drive it like that, and it puts other parts of the lift at risk. thus causing them to spend more for parts to help you out. seems more rational to me to go ahead, have them send you both, and attempt to avoid any further issues with your lift.
03-23-2010, 06:51 PM
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As for my opinion on the coils, yeah its odd that one busted, and it would have been nice for them to send a set instead of one, but parts are usually replaced/refunded on part to part basis....not in sets. Maybe thats something else most of us can keep in mind to ask when ordering parts, ask even odd case scenarios on the part warranties. Like if one coil fails, will they replace in a set or single.
Just keep in mind, any NEW part can fail right out of the box. Its just something that happens from time to time. Most things are machine made, sadly not handcrafted if you know what Im saying......
Just keep in mind, any NEW part can fail right out of the box. Its just something that happens from time to time. Most things are machine made, sadly not handcrafted if you know what Im saying......
03-23-2010, 07:38 PM
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Personally, I think that since they are such a large company, they wouldnt loose much by making a customer happy. They have a good reputation already, but it only takes a few situations like these to ruin it.
Also, are you even able to buy a single coil spring? Don't they pretty much always come in pairs? If they come in pairs, then the entire package should be replaced, meaning both springs.
By the way, what is that sticking out of your shock?
Also, are you even able to buy a single coil spring? Don't they pretty much always come in pairs? If they come in pairs, then the entire package should be replaced, meaning both springs.
By the way, what is that sticking out of your shock?