salad

Question for all you manual shifters...

When approaching a stop I usually leave it in gear until it drops to 1000 RPM or less, or until it lugs if I'm not paying attention, unless it's running down a hill and I downshift or I can feel the engine keeping me from stopping.

I read in some thread a while back this guy who wrote that his wife took the Jeep out of gear (into neutral) "dangerously early". What does this mean?

mr white

Shouldn't really coast in a manual, ever.

RememberTheMallamo

If you coast in a manual (I am NOT an expert) you apparently run the risk of damaging syncros (spelling?). Also if your plates are sticky it causes premature wear as if driving half-clutched. If I coast down a hill on my motorcycle in neutral, it SLAMS back into gear afterward. It literally feels like the transmission is trying to escape in that moment lol. That feeling is apparently from the plates sticking and finally breaking free only after being forced. I also always suggest engine braking whenever possible. That way you're not over-using neutral and putting your plates and syncros at risk. Plus you're saving wear on your brakes!

Just never forget that engine braking does NOT illuminate your brake lights! Always at least feather your break pedal to alert those behind you of the slow down.

RememberTheMallamo

And your practice of only pulling out of gear at 1K RPMs or when it starts to lug is in my opinion exactly what you should be doing.

salad

I've heard this. But why? Is it a conspiracy to waste fuel or is there a technical or safety reason?

Yes, I can understand the wear on the synchros bit. Mine are almost gone so I double clutch on every shift. I've seen some people (my boss) that never, ever do this. It's quite alarming what he's doing to his transmission.

I like engine braking very much but I'm not going to go out of my way to do it if I'm not concerned about brake fade (trailer towing, going downhill, etc). The way I see it since I already disconnect the engine from the wheels normally I'm saving brakes vs. an automatic. As well, transmission wear comes from excessive shifting, I don't shift unless I need to. Brakes are a LOT cheaper than transmission and clutch.

Oh indeed. Safe following distance is an alien concept to most people. One of these days someone's going to drive into the rear of my XJ just during a shift.

CrawlerXJ

I took drivers ed a few decades ago. But, I still remember most. I remember this topic as well. Best advice after being on the road for many moons, watch the other driver. Most take their drivers ed at KMart.

As for clutches, and brakes. Buy a good set at Napa, and don't sweat the easy stuff.

TABonifacio

When I see a light turn Red and I'm a distance away, I usually shift out of the gear I'm in and go into neutral. I just let it coast all the way to the light, then right before I come to a stop, I put it into first. Maybe I'm making things more difficult on myself, but that's just the way I drive. Some people I know with Stick Cherokees are above 200,000 on the original clutches...I don't see the harm in throwing it into neutral before coming to a stop...

F1Addict

I've also heard that coasting in neutral is somehow bad for your transmission however, in my experience, it has never adversely affected the longevity of my manual transmission. Even in my fragile Audi Quattro (which had a transfer case), I coasted down hills all the time to conserve fuel. All drive-line components lasted 283,500 miles and were in fine working order when my poor Audi went to the crusher for failure to pass emissions... I loved that car

That said, my XJ owner's manual offers these directions for recreational towing (which is basically the same as coasting for long periods)...

1. Shift transfer case to 2H and check that the PART TIME light goes out.

2. Drive vehicle 10 ft. (3 m) rearward and then 10 ft. (3 m) forward to make sure the axle is disengaged.

3. Shift transmission to Neutral.

4. Turn off the engine with the ignition key in the unlocked OFF position.

5. Shift transfer case lever from 2H to N (Neutral) position.

6. Shift manual transmission into gear or automatic transmission into P (Park).

7. Attach vehicle to the tow vehicle with tow bar.

Obviously, those things are impossible to do while coasting down a hill so there's a possibility (according to Jeep) of damaging the internal components of your transfer case and/or transmission.

salad

Okay, so I'm not the only one who does this. The only transmission I've heard of where coasting in neutral was actually bad is some Eaton RoadRanger video on YouTube from like the 50s or 60s. But I think a 5-speed main + air-operated 3-speed auxiliary heavy duty transmission is a bit different from an Aisin Warner 5-speed synchronized unit with aluminum case lol

Thanks for the first bit F1, that helps. As for the second, I meant "towing", not "being towed" lol

F1Addict

Being towed, as I see it, is analogous to coasting which is why I copied that information from the manual. If you coast down a hill with your transmission in neutral, your transfer case is still engaged and the internal bits still spinning which, I believe, is where the potential for damage occurs.

salad

Thought that was only applicable to automatics, and furthermore only to reduce wear on the transmission? It's not like you put your tcase in neutral when rolling up to a stop, so the transmission is always going to be engaged...

F1Addict

According to the manual, it applies to both. It states that an automatic should be towed with the transmission in Park (P) and a manual gear box should be towed with the transmission IN GEAR, both with the transfer case in Neutral. I'm sure there are some who take this to an extreme and avoid coasting (which is what your XJ is doing when it's being towed) at all cost to avoid damaging the transfer case or transmission internals. Is it really necessary? Read my first response.

Obviously, when coasting with the transfer case engaged like when rolling down a hill or to a stop at an intersection, the internals will be forced to spin due to the rear drive shaft which can't be disengaged. Spinning without a load from the engine/transmission, I suspect, is where damage is possible.

salad

This is what I've been hearing. Anybody have any clue why, though? What difference does it make?

gajeepguy

Not to mention if your coasting in neutral and have to make an evasive maneuver you've got to get into gear first.....etc

salad

What would be an example of that? I can't imagine suddenly needing to speed up to avoid a deer that's leapt out before a red light