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Stock Grand Cherokee Tech. All ZJ/WJ/WK Non-modified/stock questions go here!ZJ (93-98), WJ (99-04), WK (05+)
All ZJ/WJ/WK specific tech questions asked here!
Yeah I doubt you would need an all aluminum radiator such as a Griffin. After searching on the Griffin's website I was only able to find an exact fit for a 99 Wranger TJ and YJ with automatic transmission Suggested Retail Price $350.33 can be found on eBay for $280.00 with free shipping.
Searching on a site such as Summit Racing I did find two Griffins for a 99 and 99-04 Grand Cherokee for $743.00
This type of all aluminum radiator may be called for where heavy duty cooling is required such as off-road, racing, towing, etc. environments.
There are advantages and disadvantages of having an all aluminum radiator such as e.g. repair work may be more expensive as someone proficient in welding aluminum is required.
I was wrong about the Grand Cherokee radiator being a downflow as I see the description of the Griffin rad shows it's a crossflow. I thought the Grand Cherokee used a downflow rad same as the TJ and YJ.
Champion manufactures all aluminum radiators that would be in your price range and less than an all metal Mopar OEM
Found on eBay for 1999 - 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee 3 Row Champion WR All Aluminum Radiator $209.89 and $204.00
As previously stated I installed in my XJ for about $35.00 a Napa coolant filter that fit's on one the heater hoses to or from the heater core. Which I find beneficial too keep the coolant alive longer and to clean out the cooling system including the engine block. When you replace the radiator it's a good idea to flush the engine block without any radiator connected and at the same time flush out the heater core. You can with the radiator connected run a cleaning solution to try to remove sediment build up in the engine block and heater core. What's important if doing yourself is to run only plain water though your cooling system to scour out sediment, do this at least several times. You want to clean and scour out the engine block and heater core the best you can, Overtime sediment becomes stuck in the engine block coolant passages
Adding a filter over time will help filter the coolant, cooling system and engine block. It also helps to prolong the life or your radiator. Alot of junk becomes stuck in the lower part of the rad that doesn't really get removed during a radiator flush. Coolant filter helps to prevent sediment, gunk and crud from ever getting built up inside the cooling system.
There are two types of coolant filters an inline such as Champions that filters coolant directly and another kind that you install on a heater hose that filters more slowly over time as water flows in and out of the heater core. This type the filters may be need to be only changed every 25,000 mile or longer periods. I found replacement filters for $8.00 each on eBay. This type of coolant filter uses a spin-on where once full it's replaced with a new one similar to an oil filter.
Note: AFAIK the later model Jeeps with a heater value allows the coolant to always run through the heater core. Heat is then controlled using it's blend door. The type of filter installed on the heater core's heater hoses may filter finer particles than such as the Champion inline.
Heater hose coolant filter kit with clamps and hoses.
It sounds like you know much more about the 4.0 than I do. That engine has been around for many years. I believe it was first designed by AMC and they used it in so many vehicles through out the years, I'm asking if making the comparison to a 4.0 in an XJ as far as longevity and durability is concerned to a 4.0 in a WJ is valid. Its my understand all 4.0's are not created equally. My experience with them is limited to the ones I had in an 84 and 86 CJ-7 I owned. The 4.0's made by Chrysler/Jeep and used in the WJ's have some pretty consistent weak points. Piston skirt failures are common in all years and specific years have weak heads in them that fail consistently when overheated. Its also my understanding that the transmission used in the 4.0 WJ is also prone to failure. I read about that all the time and the trans behind the 4.7 is considered a much better and more reliable design. I owned those 2 CJ's while living in Hawaii and I would overheat them on occasion because we drove them in deep sand a lot. I never had a problem with head gaskets and they seemed unphased from driving around at low speeds and relatively high rpms in the sand. I don't spend any time on XJ or ZJ forums since I have never owned one. I don't know if they had the piston skit issues and thats why I am asking. I was torn when I was shopping for my WJ knowing that the 4.7 has it's own issues that seem to be chronic, but thats what I ended up with. I know there are high mileage versions of both engines and which is better has been hotly debated by loyalists to both side over the years. I would advise against flushing the heater core myself unless he is having issues with poor circulation or lack of heat. If its working I'd just leave it alone especially before a long road trip. I have flushed them before but not in older vehicles like these that need to have the dash removed to change them out. When they were inside the cab, under the dash and easy to get too, I didn't mind risking it because they were easy and cheap to get to.
I'm not certain how much I know about the 4.0L. I haven't yet rebuilt one. I picked up a 98 XJ back in 07 and flushed the engine block and heater core several times without any problems. Imo it's something that needs to be done as part of maintenance and when changing to new coolant.
I've worked other engines that are more complicated, but to actually know the 4.0L I would need to rebuild one. It was my first OBD2 automobile which I had to check books out of the library because I knew next to nothing about obd. The first auto I worked on was a 52 Ford and use to own a 56 chev. and many other vehicles over the years. But this obd was complete new to me. my previous vehicle before the XJ was an 86 chev which I never bothered to take a look at it's obd and computer, etc. I'm more old school, before they started installing computers in vehicles.
You need to remember the primary function and purpose of a vehicle OBD computer is for emissions, of which it's designed to actual sacrifice a vehicle runabilty in order decrease pollution.
On my XJ I did install a coolant filter on the return heater hose, with a spin on filter that filters down to around 25 microns. It was kit from Wix I picked up for $35.00. Since there is no heater valve on the 98 XJ coolant is always flowing through the heater core where a blend door controls heat. A percentage of the coolant is filtered over time where eventuality 100 percent of the coolant is filtered. (I think it's considered to be a bypass filter, similar to a bypass engine oil filter, of which I have one from Amsoil but haven't ever installed. With an engine oil bypass filer you can significantly extend the time periods between oil and filter changes)
I'm thinking of installing a coolant filter on my ZJ with a 4.0L. I'm uncertain why my 95 ZJ with 227,000 miles achieves better fuel economy than my XJ with 203,000 miles. I think it may have something to do with axle ratio of my ZJ is 3.73 where the XJ is 3.55. Imo the 95 ZJ has at least a few significant fundamental design improvements over the XJ which is better suited to modify for off-road use.
The ZJ has a NP249 which takes some getting use to. I'm thinking of swapping in a NP242. Which wouldn't be that difficult if you can find one that compatible otherwise requires changing parts, etc. to fit a NP242. I think unless you want to spend some bucks for a compatible rebuilt NP242 one needs to hunt through the JYs or try to find one online. Certain year Jeep NP242's are more compatibility than others. So you need to know different details and what to look for. I've just been busy with other stuff, but may take time to look around in the local JY's to see what they have in the way of NP242s.
I use the ZJ mainly for on road travel. Going to the grocery, hardware stores, to pick up stuff, etc. It's a Limited version and has passive security, working AC and heater, other features referred to as luxury items that the XJ doesn't have, also ABS brakes, overhead console, VIC (vehicle information center) that doesn't work so I've removed it, when working it monitored external lighting, doors, hood, lift gate, locks, coolant level, etc. From what I was told, the VIC manufacture used a lead free solder, which overtime and age developed microcracks in the two circuit boards that effects how the VIC functions. Possibly the traces can be resoldered using solder with lead. I have Weller soldering station and Ungar soldering iron but don't know if I want to mess with it trying to repair. I think I may replace it with a switch box and cig lighter sockets, so I can plug things in.
I'm uncertain of the micron level of filerting these are capable. A person from Champion told me he didn't have the specs but made a request for them and get back with me. He told me his guess is that cleanable filtering screen is approx. 1/32 in.
1/32 in. is equal to .0312 in. = .793 mm, 0.0311 inches = US Mesh 20 = 840 microns
So if 1/32 in. it's screen filters approx. 840 microns full flow and full time.
As you can see from the pic there's potentially alot of junk that floats around in the coolant that can become stuck in radiator core, engine block and heater core. So imo it's really a necessity to flush them out at least once in a while. I'm not really part of a train of thought just to leave it alone due to it's going to create some work.
I started working when I was 10 years old digging ditches, yard work, etc. My first full time job I was ~13 and where I had to punch a clock, if you were late they docked your pay which was .99 cents an hour and a fourty hour work week. I've been working all my life various jobs including driving semis, working in the shipyards as shipfitter (that was good pay years ago, equivalent to 2018/2019 dollars of ~$45 to ~$50.00 per hour. Replacing a heater core for myself wouldn't be that big of a deal. Yes you got to remove a bunch of the dash, etc. but for myself it's just something to do, to past the time. I've been working on cars since I was around 14 and do some automobile repair work for relaxation, as it calms my nerves ,etc.
I know what you mean. I like working on my vehicles. I am 41 y/o now, but since my early teens I have done all the work I could and was able to do on them.. I've torn down my motorcycles to do valve work and all the maintenance. It is satisfying.
I am liking the coolant filter off of the heater outlet hose a lot! That's a great idea!
Let me think about this out loud. Aluminium blocks, aluminum radiator core, aluminum heater cores. I'm thinking coolant filters were intended for cast iron block vehicles? If everything is aluminum, what is there to filter out? Water pumps are still iron but very small and typically not in service for the life of the engine.
I don't know. Coolant filters are often used on commercial trucks, semis, etc. I think for some vehicles it's regular maintenance to have a coolant filter.
My 4.0L in the XJ and ZJ have a cast iron block, and the radiator in my XJ is a HD three row CSF copper brass. The heater cores afaik in both the XJ and ZJ are copper brass. The ZJ radiator may be either copper brass or an alum core with metal tank.
Years ago I remember when most radiator were copper brass you could bring your rad into a radiator shop to be repaired and they would have you out of the shop in 30 mins or so after either flushing your rad in a hot bath or replace your core with a new or clean one. The entire service cost was around $30.00. Today shops sometimes perform repairs but often replace the entire radiator with a new one with plastic tank and alum core. Because they become so inexpensive, often costing from around ~$75.00 to $125.00. Many aftermarkets that use to cost over a $100.00 are now going for under a $100.00. OEMs have started to use plastic tanks and alum cores, Mopar has an oem for the XJ for around $125.00. It also manufactures an OEM for the XJ with metal tanks and aluminum core for around $350.00 (possibly may find a new one for around ~$300.00.) The OEM with metal tanks and alum. core is a good radiator and made to last a long time. There was a dual and single row versions, classified as sever or heavy duty. I'm trying to remember some oem rads for the automatic transmissions didn't have a transmission cooler installed it was similar to the one for the manual transmission. I believe it was or still is called "Max Cooling" where the radiator designed for an automatic tranny didn't have a built-in transmission cooler and they installed an external transmission cooler to cool the transmission allowing the radiator to better cool down the engine.
From Google search
Copper-brass conducts heat considerably better than aluminum does. Bigger tubes and more fins increase surface area. ... The compromise comes from building the tubes out of aluminum. An aluminum radiator using 1-inch-wide tubes with 0.016-inch wall thickness is 60 percent lighter than the same copper-brass radiator.
So even though alum. isn't as a good of a conductor as copper brass, the tubing can be made larger and lighter creating a more efficient heat exchange and at the same time less prone to corrosion.
If you take a look at my 98 XJ parts manual the a bunch of different types of OEM radiators that were installed at on time back around 98
RELATED PARTS 4.0L ENGINE (ER0)
Note: Sales Code DG0 = All Auto Trans
Note: Sales Code DGB = Manual Trans
1 RADIATOR, Engine Cooling
05012883AA 1 J, T ER0 DG0 w/o Max Cooling
05012884AA 1 J, T ER0 DBB w/o Max Cooling
52028133 1 J, T ER0 DBB Copper Brass Middle East
1 J, T ER0 DG0 Copper Brass Middle East
52028537 1 B, U ER0 DG0
52028544 1 B, U ER0 DBB
52079682AA 1 J, T ER0 DG0 w/o Max. Cooling Aluminum
52079693AB 1 J, T ER0 DBB w/o Max. Cooling Aluminum
52080104AC 1 J, T ER0 DG0 w/Max. Cooling Alumium
52080115AC 1 J, T ER0 DBB w/Max. Cooling Alumium
For my 95 ZJ the radiator was either Auto or Manual there's nothing about max cooling, aluminum, etc. So I'm uncertain if you order an after market rad for a 95 ZJ based on it's oem part number if the tanks are going to be metal or plastic.
RADIATOR AND RELATED PARTS SIX CYLINDER ENGINE ZJ, ZG BODY
Auto. Trans. 52028379 1 1995-96
Manual Trans. 5202 8378 1 1995-96
Today plastic tank with aluminum cores are the most popular radiator. I think it getting difficult to find all metal, copper brass and alum core with metal sides tanks. When you do find one they often cost at least two or three times more than a plastic tank with alum. core.
If you want to go all aluminum those start at around $200.00. I recently priced a Griffin All aluminum radiator of a 99 WJ cost = $735.00
On RockAuto most all the radiators for the 95 ZJ are plastic with alum core. However there's an all aluminum $148.00 with shipping LILAND GLOBAL 1396AA All Aluminum w/o Engine Oil Cooler .. there's no transmission oil cooler included.
The rest of the radiator are plastic. Which isn't really wanted for off-road and more extreme environments.
The average price radiator selection seems to be dwindling down to almost nothing. All you can find these days are plastic radiator which they claim to be improving but tend to crack under more extreme conditions.
For off road and more extreme environments all metal radiators whether the copper / brass or all aluminum are still preferred.
Anyway I'll have to take a closer look to see if my 95 ZJ is a copper brass or a metal tank with alum. core. I'm fairly certain it's an older radiator, installed before the plastic radiators with alum. cores became popular.
Personally, not a big fan of aluminum/plastic radiators. They are cheap to buy and lighter but they don't hold up even under normal driving. The plastic cracks in high stress places such as necks and where the hoses attach. I'd much rather have the better made and heaver brass and copper versions.The big issues for those are high first cost because brass and copper are more expensive than plastic and aluminum, and repair and maintenance issues. Up until lately almost every town that I lived in had more than enough Radiator Shops. Now there are none. Its a dirty business to run. Very polluting and the government tightly regulated them for "environmental reasons". Most of the shops that I am aware of had been in business since the beginning of time and eventually became managed by second generation. Nobody wants to do that work anymore and with the government breathing down you back it's a tough go, especially with the auto industry going with the cheaper alternative. I lived on Kauai and I was having some overheating issues with one of my CJ-7 that we drove on the beach. I had to send my 2 core radiator by mail to Oahu 300 miles away to get a 4 core put in. Total cost $400. But after I put that in I could drive around in computed low in deep dry sand all day long without concern. I still have a old radiator in my garage hoping someday I can get it re cored. The core is shot but the tanks are good. It weighs a ton. If I knew where to get a good brass/copper radiator locally I'd install one in my WJ and 88 K1500 in a heartbeat.
02-12-2019, 01:04 PM
