thenag

Ok so here we go;

We had an 87 Bronco with a 460, np 435, np 203/205, d-60 lock rite, 4.10’s, gm 14 bolt Detroit, 4.10’s, and 37x12.5x15 Gen 1 mtr’s (pile of parts right now)

We also have a bone stock 4 door 1999 Jeep Cherokee that has never really been wheeled and except for a few minor dings in really good condition. It has an AX-15 and the 4.0L. It really doesn’t have much rust on it considering we live in Salt Lake City.

So what’s wrong with the Bronco?

Well It has been wheeled pretty hard for the last 9 years, it has held up well and is extremely solid, except for the body which is really banged up and has some pretty good cracks in the roof, etc. We have talked about buying another bronco for the body or putting a pick-up cab on this frame. However the bronco is 6500 lbs. trail weight. I could try to lighten it up while adding a roll cage but it is still leaf sprung which has been annoying me lately. Also we are getting to the point that we want a trail rig we can trailer. I don’t want to have to buy a huge tow rig, and a huge trailer to tow a 6500lb rig.

So lets do something different. We kicked around many ideas and kept coming back to building up our xj. I don’t want any “build up a tj” or anything else in this thread we have decided to do an xj, it is what we have and it is what we are doing. So I would like useful ideas to make a badass xj, not that we should have started with something different.

One of my problems with the bronco is that it is starting feel hacked together. So much of it works really well but having to remove the York to change a fan belt, having to get the #1 battery in there just right so it doesn’t hit the York… I could go on and on. It was a badass bronco but it is time to move on… Another thing is that leafs are really bugging me. Axle wrap, Axle walk, I see other rigs on trails and links just work better.

So with this project we want to build up a bad *** well thought out xj. We are going to use quite a bit of bolt on (weld on) type stuff. There are so many good bolt-ons for jeeps it just makes sense to use a product that is available rather than fab one up myself. This project is going to be expensive, budget is a consideration, this is not a “spend as much money as possible” build but we are not going to shy away from spending. I have seen too many rigs that people cheap out on and too many that are more dollars than cents.

We plan on using the transfer case, axles, tires and wheels (although the tires and wheels will be swapped out some time down the road for 37x12.5x17 new mtr’s) The front axle will be narrowed. I will actually have the driver side tube lengthened to the size of a GM short side d-60. This will allow me to use an OEM shaft and give me more axle tube to weld suspension on and put the diff about right where it needs to be. The passenger side will be a custom shaft to get the WMS-WMS to 61.5 inches. The rear axle will also be narrowed, I will have the passenger side axle tube shortened 6 inches, this will mean that an OEM 14 bolt driver side shaft will fit both sides and the width will be 61.5 inches WMS-WMS. We are keeping the body intact except for some fender trimming; we are willing to give up a little suspension travel to save the body. We will probably cut and fold the rear quarter panels.

Advanced 4 Wheel Drive will shorten the passenger side 14 bolt, lengthen drive side d-60, and shorten pass side d-60 for about $500-600. Please post positive info about shops that do this type of work, if you have had some really bad service from shops that do this, a PM is probably the appropriate way to let me know about that.

So we want to clear 37-inch tires on an xj with minor trimming. So that puts at 8-10 inches of lift.

First things first; we need a frame! The three frame stiffeners that look the best to me are the Ruff Stuff, HD off road, and the TNT. The Ruff Stuff go up onto the bottom of the floor which sounds good but I read a thread that says the upper part extends too far onto very thin sheet metal of the floor. HD sells the parts that plate the sides of rails all the way up to the bumpers so as of now I am leaning toward the HD off road full kit. I have in my head what I think is a really cool way to tie in cross members, more on that in a bit. Any thoughts on which one frame stiffener is the best?

I need thoughts on steering box reinforcements, I think a plate would be enough or a bumper that had an integrated plate (c-rok’s is like that I think) I would think that a brace to the other frame rail would not be required when tying the frame rails together with a stout front bumper. I read somewhere that you could use a beefier box, out of a Durango? Or out of an older full size jeep? What is the best alternative steering box to put in?

Since we are talking Chrysler parts is there a Dodge truck brake booster that bolts in that is a good upgrade?

I am planning on installing a 160amp Alt from a Durango. I will do all the recommended wiring upgrades at that time too.

Still on the Dodge stuff. The t-case from our bronco is a Ford np203 range box with a Ford np 205 (Ford 203/205 doubler). So I am going to pick up an input shaft from a dodge np203 install it on the np 203 and it will mate up to the ax-15. I will have to drill and tap some holes in the face of the np 203 to make it bolt up but it is cast iron and should hold up fine. As for the speedometer gear does anyone know if the jeep gear will go into a dodge np 205? If so I can probably make that work somehow… One of the great money and time saving things about using this case is that I have spare front and rear drive shafts. The drive shafts hook up to the axles we are using. The front shaft may be fine at the length it is, so this will save time and money on drive shafts and yokes. I know this case is 200lbs and there are a bunch of good lighter cases out there. Going this route will give us a 4:1 case for a couple hundred bucks that hooks up to the existing drive shafts. This time cost wins over weight. Plus if you are going to add weight the t-case is best place to do it. Also I have ran the 205 into rocks with the weight of the bronco on it so I know that this case will take anything we can throw at it, and parts are cheap. We are kicking around the idea of replacing the np205 with a Early Bronco Dana 20, but by the time I actually get it hooked up to the drive shafts an Atlas isn’t THAT much more. Of course I am assuming the 203/205 will fit under the floor of the jeep without cutting…

Next; Front suspension. I really want a true 3 or 4 link, not a glorified radius arm setup that the upper link ties into the lower link. I don’t have a real good reason for this I know that the radius arm setups like the TNT work extremely well but I want a 4 link. As of now I am leaning toward the xj long arm kit from Poly Performance. (http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/Poly-Performance-Jeep-XJ-Front-4-Link-Long-Arm-Kit-Bolt-On-p-25563.html) The frame brackets look really nice, bolt and weld in. I will have to cut the frame stiffeners around the brackets and weld them together. I like an off the shelf kit for this since the arms are bent to clear the tires. I have a hi-steer arm on the d-60 so I will be able to raise up the pan hard bar a bit. I also plan on using a pan hard bar drop bracket welded into the frame stiffener etc. I should be able to get a reasonably flat drag link and pan hard bar with this setup even at 8-10 inches of lift.

Rear suspension, like I said leafs are annoying me, we want links. Axle wrap and Axle walk can be minimized with bars but with an xj there is another thing to consider. A lot of people talk about when they do a coil conversion on the rear all of the body creaking and binding go away. All this binding will cause the metal to fatigue and eventually fail. We will be ahead of the game since we will have frame stiffeners and an exo cage from the beginning of it’s wheeling life but those leaf spring forces will still be at work, so add that to axle wrap and axle walk and we are going links. I have considered the Clayton kit, the problem is that with the length of the t-case the cross member will probably be in the way, or at least have to be removable. So Poly Performance has this Universal kit; (http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/Poly-Performance-Universal-4-Link-Weld-On-Rear-Kit-p-16802.html) Or the basic Ballistic Tabs; (http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Dual-frame-link-mount_p_1164.html) I will need a goofy axle truss since the diff is going to be off center 6 inches. I would like to use TJ front coils, what length of spring will get us 8-10 inches of lift? Any other thoughts on doing a 4 link on an xj?

I want to find some stiffer than stock springs, I can’t help building a heavy rig we will need some stiff springs, is there a manufacture that makes stiffer springs?

I will do at least one $anti-rock$ sway bar, I may try to keep the stock front one with disconnects and extensions for on road.

I haven’t completely ruled out coil-overs on all 4 corners but I have yet to see a setup in the rear that doesn’t involve mounting the top of the coil over in the cargo area. And the top of the front coil over mounts don’t look real easy either…

Ok so I will have 2 cross members, one behind the transmission, and one between the 203 and 205. Before I weld in the frame stiffeners I will figure out where the cross members are going to go. I will make the “L” shape frame stiffener into a “U” so it goes up the inside of the frame rail. I will do this a few inches on each side of where the cross member will go. I will weld some nuts on the inside of the bottom of the “U” and cut the bottom of the uni-body so the nuts will be inside the uni-body rail. The cross members will have a “L” shape plate that goes on the inside of the frame rail and onto the bottom of the frame rail. On the bottom I will be able to bolt the cross member into the nuts that are now on the inside of the bottom of the “U” of the frame stiffener. On the side of the frame rail I will install a crush sleeve kind of thing. (using ¾ DOM .120 wall the ID is .510) So I can drill a ¾ inch hole through the frame stiffener, through the unibody and through the other side of the “U” of the frame stiffener. I can then weld the tubing to both sides of the frame stiffener, grind it flat and I have some nice ½ inch holes that I can bolt the inside of the cross member plate to going all the way through the “frame”. The driver side of the transmission cross member will probably have to go over the drive shaft. I am also going to try to use stock xj/tj 4.0L motor mounts for bushings on the cross members. If we need something stiffer we can get some Brown Dog poly mounts that will bolt right in, of course 2 sets of Brown Dog poly mounts are $$$$.

As for bumpers etc, I really like the C-rok stuff does anybody know if he still makes everything? If he does we will be getting one of everything, front and rear bumper, sliders, cage, etc. I do want to add an “H” that goes through the cab right behind the front seats of his cage. If he is not still making stuff is there a good exo-cage kit available. I really don’t want to learn how to bend tube. Are there any shops around that do exo cages? An RME member has said he could do the work for us too.

What is the best way fit 2 batteries in an xj?

Does anyone have a good DIY gas prop setup for the hood? (that prop rod is already pissing me off…)

What about an air tank? Are there any good locations to put an air tank under an xj? (with a rear 4 link… lol)

What about fender flares, We intend to keep this street legal in Utah and should be pretty close but We will need fender flares. Are there any good bolt-on ones that have provisions to cut some of the fender out? I am leaning toward using rear OEM TJ flares at all 4 corners. What about the Rusty’s flexible ones?



After we get all that done, we will do some upgrades. If things hold up and work well these may not be done for a while, maybe years.

Re-gear the axles, I am skeptical that the 4.10’s will be low enough, at that time we will probably put an ARB in front axle and do 35 spline outer shafts with chromo shafts and $$$$$ u-joints.

Shave the 14 bolt, I mean go nuts on it to point of machining the ring gear, so yeah we will wait until we re-gear that axle to do that. (http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/14-Bolt-Shave-Kit_p_1728.html)
Oh yeah add a pair of disk brakes to the 14 bolt, it should be done sooner but I would rather put the money into other things on the rig to get it off road.

Thanks for your input, this project won’t really start until February so I want all your experience so we can have a bad *** xj from the start.

Nathan
No wheeling rig for now…

Iant333

Firstly you dont need 8-10 inches of lift, Maybe half that would be a good setup, Unless you are planning on making like some big mud dragster it is gonna be way too top heavy. And you aren't going to fit 37's properly without trimming so plan on more like alot of trimming.

Also the Durango steering box isnt any beefier, just has a more favorable steering gear ratio. It would make it turn easier.

I would plate the "frame" first off. There are a handful of companies out there that make full length frame stiffeners. That ought to give you a good platform to work with.

For the long arm if you are really dead set againt a radius arm, Rockrawler makes a good kit for both 3 and 4 links. Just minor welding required. They also make a rear link kit as well.

For springs if you want stiffer you again arent going to want 8-10 inches of lift, everything at that kind of lift height is usually pretty soft.

You can chop an 8" coil down to about 5-6 and have something reasonably stiff.

Rusty's flex flares are ok, if you live in an area with alot of tree's you are gonna break any flare off though.

I have never heard good things about any of the selectable lockers. I'd say detriot or spool. And 4.10 is not going to be low enough at all, try 5.13/5.38.

Cant comment on much more than that.