Hello everyone, I've been a long time lurker and your guys have helped me a great deal, so thanks. Just finished rebuilding the head, and replacing the entire exhaust system on my 1992 XJ. Also replaced the AW4 rear main seal and transfer case front main seal. After that, I was tired, and I just wanted to be done with it and have a usable vehicle again so I took it to the local offroad shop to have the rear leaf springs changed.

When I dropped it off we went through the procedure in detail. I told them to cut the old spring out until they had a bare bolt and then use penetrating oil and heat to make sure they didn't break the nut on the back side loose. A few hours later, I get a call saying "we're gonna need to modify the frame, so it's gonna take a few more hours than the estimate."

I go down there, and meet a guy who states "I've never done this before, but I talked to the guy who usually does them and he says not to worry, they break off 90% of the time." They did not attempt to cut the spring, no penetrating oil, no heat, just stuck a big ole break over bar on there and broke the nut right off.

Now they tell me they want to move the brake and fuel lines out of the way so they can cut a hole in the (inside) side of the frame rail to weld a new nut on (I am only familiar with coming from above through the floor). Cutting through structural steel seems like a bad idea. I told them they were only allowed to put parts back on so that I could take it home.

These guys want me to pay full price for the time it was in the shop. Would you pay them? What's the best way to fix this now that I'm stuck in the worst of all possible situations? Anyone know someone in Wichita, KS (or within a couple hours) who can fix this? I have other projects and just need to be done with this.

 

Oh yeah, one more thing. Is it safe to drive with that nut broken off but still tight? My thought is that its safe at least to drive it home.

 

is it a big shop or a small little repair shop ? Tell them you will not pay for there mistake...if its a big shop move up the ladder ,manager,dist manager corporate ...you get the picture.

 

Way I see it is they didn't do what you asked. You shouldn't pay them if they didn't do what you wanted. Isn't that how shops work? You tell them what you want done, they do it (right), then you pay them?

 

No one touches my Jeeps but me.


You knew better.


Tired is no excuse.


I won't side with you on this.

 

That's not the way it works, if you take it in you are putting your trust in that business. They said they'll fix it and they certainly deserve to be paid for their time & materials. I'm amazed how many just openly slam a business and think peeps should just volunteer their time, equipment and facilites. I can't afford to work for free as I have bills to pay just like everyone else.
If it would have been that easy you would have just DIY.

 

Small local shop.

I think you'd have a point if they had said "no, we do service however our techs see fit." In which case, I'd have gone on down the road. Or if they hadn't said "we do these all the time" and then assigned it to a tech who had never done it before. Or if they'd recommended any number of appropriate fixes instead of cutting a hole in the frame rail.

When a doctor does this, we call it malpractice, and you don't just get your money back, you get paid for the **** storm they caused. I can tell you one thing, in hindsight I'd have paid them a grand to just say "No, we're incompetent, we can't do this and we shouldn't even try."

 

Well put, and spot on.
You do realize, they can hold your vehicle until payment is made, and even file a lien against your title if you don't pay, right? I would negotiate with them, and get it down as low as you can, walk, do it yourself, and consider it a hard lesson learned.

 

So , what business are you in that you get the costumer to pay for your mistakes?

If your Jeep was painted the wrong color would YOU pay twice to have it done right ?

Were it not for explicit instructions , which shop agreed to , I would say he's stuck.
As to paying, you MAYBE owe them about 1/2 - 1 hr shop rate : lift it up, break bolt, done.

Seems I've seen small hole cut on bottom of the rail to install new nut.

I see no problem with driving it home.

Best thing I see about this mess is that you can put the shop on BLAST !!
If they have a site, post negative feedback. Tell everyone you know or meet your negative experience. If you sway one person from doing business with them, you're even. !!

 

Great advice, I would do the same, though I'm not sure they can hold his vehicle hostage. I know laws differ state to state, but I had to deal with a similar situation a few months ago in CA, and was told by the local police that the car was my property and I had the right to collect it.

Stay calm, negotiate a price, get your Jeep, and put your efforts into constructive activities.

 

Sure you can get your car, but they file a lien against your TITLE. Meaning if you ever go to sell it, guess who gets their money first?

 

I've used a small 4x4 Shop in business for over 25 yes for about all my work and have never had a single issue, plus their prices are very fair. Just research who you have do the work "Before" you take it somewhere.


The posters above are correct who told you to work with them on a final price. I have been in service business for the last 45 yrs and my people have made mistakes, I work with people when that happenes or if they get crappy I can as well and it ends costing them more.

 

If they think they need to dig a hole through the back of the frame rail to reach that nut, these folks should not be working on your Jeep. They are going to plasma cut the first hole, and then realize that the nut is NOT where they thought it was, then they are going to plasma cut the first wrong hole even BIGGER so that they can fit their cutter into the first hole to cut ANOTHER hole on the other wall of the frame rail.

When all the while they missed the very obvious fact that the nut sits in a little pouch that is actually on the OUTSIDE of the frame rail, and can be opened up from the bottom with a die grinder or angle grinder to access the nut.

Do NOT let them go through your frame rail.

Negotiate, get your Jeep back, and either do it yourself or find a shop that can describe accessing the nut properly without butchering your vehicle.

 

Please describe the "mistake" that was made.
You have this in writing somewhere? post it. It's all just hearsay from where I'm sitting so far.
We are not discussing paint color, we are however discussing an old rustbucket Jeep. If you possess some type of a magic wand that you can just wave and cause that front leaf spring bolt to just back itself on out lets see a video. You and your magic wand are sure to be in demand and can make a lot of money.

 

Good news. The owner called me in today once his suspension guy got there. We went over the problem together and the guy agreed that their tech had used a bad approach, even saying "this is what happens when you let the wrong guy handle a job." He talked to the owner and they are going to put it back together and give it back to me.

I know a lot of people think of these as "old rust bucket jeeps" and just go around busting off bolts and drilling them out, but if you take a little time you can get better results (plus its actually quicker than having to drill and tap everything). If you don't exceed the original torque specs by more than 10-20%, they won't break very often. At any rate, you shouldn't be running a business where you break "90% of them."

After 275,000 miles Mine had the original shock bolts rust-welded in place and I got them out without breaking a single one because I gave a **** and was a little more patient. There are quite a few forum posts that advise simply snapping them all off and getting out the drill.