Hey everyone,

First time posting, I have a 99 XJ Sport, with a Chrysler 8.25 rear diff, no ABS. I recently failed the EU control here in Norway, as my hard brake pipes are too rusty.

My question concerns how the original factory connection is made between the short pipe coming from the proportioning valve block, to the long pipe which runs under the body to the rear hose.

I purchased a Dorman 919236 kit from Rockauto, and have discovered there is no fitting between the short pipe and the long pipe, which would result in a direct flare to flare contact with NO union fitting, which does not seem correct. Someone has already replaced the long pipe on my XJ with a copper pipe, the original must have rusted through, and so I do not know if the current connection is still the same as the original factory connection. As such I am hoping someone can enlighten me on what the original factory connection looks like between the short and long pipes? Surely it could not be a direct flare to flare connection.

In the Dorman kit, there is a female fitting on the short pipe, and a male fitting on the long pipe. The flares are also different in the Dorman kit, a bubble on the long pipe, and a double on the short pipe. Every other fitting in the Dorman kit is using inverted double flares which I assume are standard SAE 45 degrees, so this seems odd to me. See photos below.

Hopefully someone has some experience with this Dorman kit and can help me figure this out!

Many thanks from Norway

Best

Mark

 

 

Adapter fitting is your answer. Take the parts with you to the store and get the correct adapter and be on your way bro. No sweat, easy fix

 

Hey,

Unfortunately that is not so simple in Norway! In Norway most stores and mechanical workshops do not carry parts for old American cars. Normally we have to order them from Amazon or Rockauto if it is a non standard part, which is always the case with brake parts.

I would still like to know what the original adapter looks like between that short and long pipe if anyone can take a photo, or knows exactly what the adapter should be!

Thanks again!

Mark

 

Dang, I just threw out my old OEM brake lines... Or I could have taken that picture for you..

When I replaced my OEM lines, I bought a kit from Inlinetube.com - Every line and connection was the same as OEM with the exception of one of the front lines that goes along the fire wall behind the engine. That one had a union in the middle to make install easier..

This is what I have now for that rear line.

 

This IS NOT THE EXACT PART YOU NEED... But just a picture of what it would look like.

 

Hey,

Thanks heaps for taking those photos!

It also appears the inlinetube kit also uses a direct flare to flare connection for the rear feed line. The Dorman kit is also squishing a bubble into a double.

I wonder if this is simply what Mopar made back in the day, and after market has just copied the original design? I looked at the images in the parts file, and there is no union listed, and the connection in the image looks too generic and fuzzy to make out exactly what it is.

I don't believe there is any brake line expert who would think a direct flare to flare join is appropriate. It should of course have a proper union there with 42deg cone seats to take 45deg SAE double inverted flares.

This leads to the interesting fitting you found, which appears to be able to take a bubble on one side, and a double on the other side. Note the bubble uses a bowl type seat, and the double inverted uses a cone seat. It would almost work in my case, but the sexes are the wrong way around.

Hopefully I can soon see what the original factory connection looks like!

Thanks again!

Best

Mark

 

Look VERY closely at the ends of each line. The end of the left line might be considered a "flare cone", and the mating end of the short line might be considered the "seat". The picture is not clear enough to tell. When tightly compressed in between connectors...it might make a leakproof connection...not positive, but maybe

 

Hey,

Apologies for my crappy photo, but you are right, it definitely looks like a bubble flare that's been shaped into a cone, but as regards long term leak proofing, I've got my doubts! Why would you go to the trouble of making such an exotic coned flare, when it should be just a normal SAE 45deg union connecting them? To save a few bucks on a union? ....and then have a dodgy flare to flare connection? I could imagine if this is the same as the original factory connection, that this might be a leak source for spongy brakes on the XJ.

Best

Mark

 

 

Slightly better photos, and you can also see the bubble/cone type flare looks rough as guts, so I doubt it will seal long term.

 

I do not remember how my 2 lines joined. But I don't think that the 2 lines were like what you have... and like yourself, I have my doubts about if your 2 lines will seal properly if just screwed together as shown in the picture.

I'm a little cautious when it comes to brakes. Maybe overly cautious. But I would be buying new lines that are made to work together. Lines that when you look at them, make sense and obviously work together. Or you could buy a kit and just run 1 line from the valve to the rear and flare the ends yourself. Not sure what the purpose of having the 2 lines is, other than maybe to facilitate installation.

 

Hey,

Yup I agree, caution counts with brakes! I don't wish to use that connection flare to flare like that, so I will make a new line with Cu-Ni until I can get some 3/16 stainless pipe from Amazon.

I can't be sure, but I think the rest of the flares on the stainless pipes in the Dorman kit are perhaps only single flares. I will test this once I get some stainless tube and make some double flares. Is there anyone here on the forum making their own stainless lines? Would be nice to know if you're using single or double flares, and what unions you use!

I have tried to find unions here in Norway, but they sell typically only bubble flare unions for European cars, and the one union I could find for 3/16 double inverted flares used a 37deg AN cone, so not useful for the typical SAE 45deg double flares used in the Cherokee.

Best

Mark

 

 

Hey all,

The photo above is the original factory connection in case anyone is wondering. I'm amazed that Mopar did this, steel on steel, direct flare to flare, no softer union material for the steel to deform into a reasonable pressure rated fitting. This to me is undoubtedly the source of spongy XJ brakes, as there is no chance this type of connection will seal long term.

Best

Mark