Made a stupid mistake and need some help!! (drum brakes)
 

Alright so before I start, let me preface this by saying if this sounds utterly stupid / obvious to avoid to you, it wasn't for me!

I was in the process of diagnosing what a clunk sound was in the rear of my jeep and when I was about to put the drum cover back on, I wasn't able to do so. What I decided to do is to apply some pressure on the brakes to see if it would move anything. Oh what a big mistake, I heard a pop and brake fluid started pouring out (I'd say about 4-5oz total before I fixed the leak). Since I have no idea what every part is named, I took so pics that I posted below in order to show what happened.

On the first pic, you can see the spring that is bent a little with the metal plate it was around. this was still holding onto the brakes but when I started playing around with it, it just fell off.

In the second pic, you can see where I put the marks, that is where the fluid was pouring from. I was able to put the little seal back in place inside and the metal piece with the rubber around like on the other side (no clue if it's the right way to do so, but at least no more fluid is leaking.

Basically what I'm wondering is if I can temporarily drive like this? The way I see it is I have 3 brakes still working so it should be fine, but of course there may be other stuff involved I'm not aware of. Eventually I will fix all this, but since it's my daily, I kinda need it working.

I was able to put the drum brake cover back on finally, but I figured I'd come looking for advice here before starting the jeep and go for a drive, just in case.

Thanks, and again, bare with me if this is stupid, I didn't really think before pushing the pedal :pinch:

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You can absolutely NOT drive like this. You need all the drum brake hardware back against that wheel cylinder or else the next time you put the brakes on the same thing will happen. Those little plunger pieces have to be pushed back in there and then all the parts back in the right spot.


We've all been tempted to do what you've done but there are usually warnings in most manuals not to press the brake pedal with the drums off.

Yep, I should've known better. Since I wasn't planning on playing with the brakes at all at first (only check for a play in the axle), I didn't make my research on brakes. Lesson learned.

I checked a bit online, it seem the piece and the spring are used for the parking brake. Do I have to remove the axle shaft in order to put it back in, or it's possible without removing it?

Thanks for the quick reply!

Everything will go back together like you've got it. Pull the drum off the opposite wheel to see how it goes.

You probably need a new wheel cylinder if that one started gushing

That thing is called a wheel cylinder. Your brake fluid feeds directly into the chamber in there creating pressure and moves two stubby rods out. This action presses your drum brake shoes against the drum providing braking power. The brake system runs under a fair amount of pressure. Your brakes will NOT work like stated above. Your broken cylinder will let out any built pressure and none of the brakes will work.

EDIT: I just saw that it wasn't leaking until you hit the brakes. See if it is able to all work again but be careful. Like stated above you may need a new cylinder.

you gotta get that leading brake shoe back in place up against the top shoe guide. (that's the part right above your red circle with the weird shaped washer where the springs clip around). you can see the trailing shoe in place.

and you still have to put the ebrake strut and spring in place.

once you do that, as long as the diaphragm is back on the wheel cylinder, and not leaking, you should be able to get the drum back on and carry on.

Get 2 wheel cylinders, brake shoes & a hardware kit, if the drums are out of spec you'll need those too. No reason to go cheap when lives are involved.

Thanks for the replies, here's my progress so far.

Turbo XJ, noted, but I still want to try and fix it, at least to get it to the shop so a professional can take a look at it.

As for the progress, here it is.

Note that the e-brake cable is loose and that's because I wasn't sure how to properly put it in place, but now I have a pretty good idea so it going to be in place.

One problem now is that the left part probably has pressure from when I pressed on the brakes and the drum cover won't fit (I was able to get it on with force, but it's reallllly tight). Will this fix itself once I bleed the line? Also, anything I should know before bleeding? Never done this before but watched some videos.

The other is, as you can see in the following video, the adjusting thing at the bottom doesn't seem to fit correctly. I think it's because I didn't mount the e-brake as I said earlier, making it loose, but correct me if I'm wrong. (see pic below)



And here, notice the left part of the break higher than the right side.

Attachment 408467

Not my pic (if you are working on the drivers side just reverse)
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On your wheel cylinder that rubber you see is just a dust boot, you can pop it off. Under that is the bore with sort of a piston, then the rubber part that makes the high pressure seal, it looks a little like a beer cap.

I mention that because since that cap was pressed out, it might take a little finesse to fit back into the bore correctly. Brute force is not it. I might loosen the bleeder, (fill the reservoir), fit that back in right ,and it might even gravity bleed.

Thanks Turbo, I'll print this right now.

Yeah since it popped off a little, making the fluid leak out I could get an idea of what it looked like. The boot with the piston (if that's the piston) popped out a little and the seal inside was in a 45 degree angle. I pressed it back in without force but making sure I couldn't make it go farther and put the rubber boot on. From what you're saying, I'll have to remove the springs and brakes again to access this right? Can I try loosening the bleeder without pressing on it or by pressing on the brake gently with my hands so it forces it in?

You said you lost 4-5oz of fluid. Should be obvious but...after following all of the good advice above, bleed your entire brake system! Thoroughly!

Also, I'd x2 Turbo X_J's recommendation for at least new shoes and hardware kits. When I do shoes, I prefer to just get new drums, too. They're cheap: $20-$30 so why not.

Even with everything on properly the entire setup has movement. Once the E-break line is connected and the adjuster wheel is in there, crank the adjuster wheel as small as it can go. The drum should mount on just fine. After that spin the tire and u open the adjuster wheel back up the tire should only rotate ONCE when you give it a hard turn. This is without using anybrakes. Repeat on other side. Test e brake if you can have someone throw the wheel or pull the e brake when you throw the wheel, see if they stop.

Bleeing- start with wheel furthest from master cylinder. Press pedal all the way down three times, do another press and HOLD. I used a breaker bar between the pedal and the seat to keep it held. Go to the brake and open up the bleeder valve it will be right above the brake line on the drums, an inch or so above line on the front calipers.

Attach a hose (buy the dang kit for 20 bones it has a nifty tool for the drum springs) the kit has a little bottle and hose stuffs. Attach hose to hole in bleeder valve and open it up. Air/fluid will exit into the bottle. Close valve.

Repeat brake bumps and hold/ draining until straight fluid exits. Not little "carbonated" bubbles, straight fluid. Keep an eye on the brake fluid resevoir (master cylinder) and put more in when needed (you will need fluid).

Around here I only have Napa and Carquest, and both are closed on sundays. And this happened around 2 today, after they both closed at noon. So my options are 1- get it towed to a shop and rent a car monday for work, all of this costing much $$, 2- Don't go at all to work monday and get all these parts, again $$ or 3- try to fix this temporarily, while staying safe of course, and go at napa on monday night to get the parts and replace everything.

I'm all for safety, but I don't have many options. If the jeep doesn't brake after I'm done doing this, I won't use it. But if I can drive around the school parking lot next door and braking is fine and not leaking, I will go with that (temporarily)

Thanks for the details, I've seen the bottle trick for when you're alone, so I'll use that. My only concern is, I'm not sure what type of brake fluid was used by my mechanic when he worked on the brakes about a year ago. I read online it's mainly DOT3 and DOT4, but you can't mix. So would I be safe if I extract most of the fluid inside the master cylinder, put in DOT3, then do the bleeding?

It's probably DOT 3. Most (if not all Cherokees are DOT 3). Never hurts to flush the system. If you just leaked out the fluid (didn't disconnect anything) and you still had fluid in the brake reservoir, you didn't get air in the system and should be able to just top it back up with DOT 3. If you lost it all, you would have only lost one of the reservoirs (since that's why there two compartments in the master cylinder (one does the front and one does the back). If one compartment is empty, you will probably have to bleed the back breaks.


Drum brakes are a pain. I've done them quite a few times (Mazda, GMC, Chevy, Jeep, Chryslers) and often there is something slightly different and I don't get it quite right or the kit I got had extra parts (or not enough). Sometimes if time is of the essence, it's not a disgrace to take it in.


I just took my rear springs off my Cherokee. When you get all the bolts off, you have to lower the axle. It was all going great until I noticed that the axle was almost hanging by the flex brake line!! I quickly jacked it back up and hopefully I didn't wreck it. We all do stupid things!!

Earlier I said 4-5 ounces, but that might've been an exaggeration. We use metric here so my conversion rate was probably off. I have about half the container filled, under the 'ADD' line. At least that's a good news.

I'll probably still try to remove as much fluid as possible and put new back in, and only bleed that rear line. The left shoe is in the position it would be if I was pushing the break pedal, so I have to figure out how to get it back further in in order to be able to put the drum back in.
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Yeah we all learn at some point, sometimes the hard way. If it wasn't my DD I'd be less stressed but since I need to drive it on monday I simply hope I can get it fixed.

They master cylinder will say what type of fluid. I'm betting DOT 3. With that entire cylinder cap coming off I'm sure there is air on that side. So you will need to bleed that side.


EMERGENCY BRAKING - DANGEROUS

If everything goes back together, the barking brake can be used to slow your vehicle. It is a hard line, like bicycle brakes. With the e brake connected properly it will effectively cycle your drum brakes. REMEMBER- the E-break only cycles the rear drum brakes. So you are trying to stop an entire vehicle with only 2 brakes vs the normal 4. It is very unsafe and will certainly be hard to control at higher speeds (25mph).

It is a very very last resort option in my opinion. Towing would be better and far safer for the other drivers and yourself. Hazard lights and put it in 1st towing gear if you want to put yourself in that risk.

My issue is on the driver side, so I'll do rear driver, then front driver.

If the main brakes don't work I won't even try to drive it. It could be manageable with a good ebrake, but mine is on its way out (unless it was not setup properly the last time the brakes were done and works fine after I'm done with it, but I don't know if that's possible. the cable seemed loose when I removed it but I can't be 100% sure)

Dot 3 & 4 are compatible,but dot 4 has a higher boiling point.
You need a rebuild kit for both sides.
I don't like the way the "hook" on your spring looks.
I have rebuilt wheel cylinders before,but for what you will spend on the kit,and due to some uncertainty on the outcome,just buy a new cylinder.

I'm glad I read all of these posts and comments. Ive decided to replace the drums to discs as soon as I have the money. Disc brakes are so much simpler to deal with in my opinion.

Like this:
Passenger side rear
Driver side rear
Passenger side front
Driver side front

If the tops won't go "home" to the pin up top, see that that seal/cap isn't keeping the push-rod from going in. (the one I mentioned earlier) DOT 3 from Safeway or the local market will be fine.

With it all together, matching the other side, you may need to pop the shoe assembly right or left with your palm to get it centered for the drum.

Actually in that process is where I tighten the adjuster wheel as tight as I can and still get the drum on. The auto adjusters usually don't work, so adjusting them through the slot is needed to get a high, firm petal.

First of all thanks for the replies.

So far I've put everything back together, but noticed the adjuster doesn't screw/unscrew. I'm pretty sure it was this way when I first pulled the drum cover when I had no issue, so it should still be fine right? I know in an ideal world I'd go and buy a new adjuster, but like I said earlier, auto part stores are closed today around here.

Now that everything is back together (did it 3 times to be sure everything is setup fine) I have kind of a poor fitment, the cover goes back on but not evenly. I feel I could force it completely inside, but I'd like some insight first before doing so. Will it fix itself once I bleed the system?

Here's some pics. As you can see, the middle of the outer axle shaft part is not completely centered with the cover, at the bottom left there's a small gap. (I tried taking a look at the other side, but the brakes are applied, I guess from putting pressure yesterday when all this happened)

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I'm afraid that is not going to work out, you may want to wait and get some parts.

But is it the adjuster that's causing this?

Something is preventing the drum from seating fully on the axle flange. I couldn't say for sure it is the adjuster since you stated that it is seized up. It could also be a ridge on the braking surface on the drum.

ETA:
Is the parking brake strut fully seated in the shoes?

Manuals for XJ's say DOT 3. if youre bleeding the whole system, you're going to get rid of all the fluid that was in there previously anyways. Whether you decide to go with DOT 3 or 4, just make sure its all properly bled. I would go with DOT 3, but if you wanted to go with 4 it won't matter.

Yes-Something isn't right. Did you keep your old shoes? Maybe try putting them back on to see if they fit better. There are 9" and 10" brake shoes -Did you check to make sure you had the right size?

the adjuster piece is threaded in the center, you can unscrew it and clean the threads then lubricate them with a high-temp grease (brake lube or anti-seize will work)

make sure you have the shoes on the correct facing, they are front/rear specific

You might see if there is a mobile mechanic in your area. Short of making sure it's identical to the other side, that frozen adjuster could be your problem. Since it came off OK, maybe not the adjuster though.

Thanks again for the replies, I read everything even though I didn't reply to everyone.

I found a place selling a kit containing the adjuster so I put that in and now it makes more sense. I was able to put the drums back on and it looks even now.

I was about to bleed until I noticed I don't have a wrench small enough to fit on the bleeder valve (these are so small wtf) and was too scared of breaking something again to try with vice grips. At this point I'm pretty tired of all this so I decided to replace as much fluid as possible in the master cylinder and give the rear brakes a go while spinning the tires while still on jack stands. Nothing unusual for now, it brakes but I still need to adjust the adjusting screw because the wheel keeps spinning slowly while applying the brakes (could be a sign of air in the line though right?). I bought some brake lube, should I just cover all the parts and call it a day?

I'll go for a little drive in the parking lot later on and see if it's manageable for now.

Well call it a day when you want but nothing is fixed until it's fixed. The wheels are probably still turning because the rear drum has not been adjusted yet. Even if there isn't any air in the line and the brakes haven't been adjusted, the wheels won't stop. The adjuster pushes the shoes out so that they make the circle instead of an oval. This is paramount to get the correct amount of drag on your drums so that all the brake system needs to do is provide the pressure. Maybe you lucked out and there isn't any air in the system and that cylinder your popped didn't actually brake and everything will work fine. Gotta do that adjustment tho man or else even the e brake won't work.

turn the adjuster until the drum starts to rub on the shoes

then you'll at least have ebrake for when the fluid test fails

I adjusted it to where it was previously (the old stuck one), turned the wheel and adjusted one last time.

I tried it in the parking lot a bit and then went out on small roads. I can definitely tell there is air in the system, the pedal is spongy as they say. I'd say I have 80% of the braking I had before this event. Tomorrow I'll take care of bleeding with the right tools.

Getting a really good grip, with Vice-Grip band vice grip, (not another brand), will first slip on the first crisp pop with your palm. Now you have a little more meat. If clamping on tight again doesn't do it you need to try to bleed at the line in nut, or replace the cylinder.

With the bleeder loose it should gravity bleed. Just let it run and watch the Res.

There use to be other tools made like baby pipe wrenches....last one I had was stolen from me in 1974!

At least they mostly work. Use the e brake to compensate if you need to. I believe it is an 8mm wrench that fits the bleeder valve. Same size as for zerk fitting I think. If youre at the auto store, pick up a brake line wrench as well. It is meant to fit over brake line nuts perfectly, a normal wrench will slip a little and can strip them.

I think I'll got with a bleeder wrench to make sure. My vice grips are working fine but I don't think they're the real ones, so I won't take the risk.

I was born about 20 years later, so it couldn't have been me!

Yep that's what I'll do, hopefully this works out.

Thanks again!

When/if all the correct stuff fails, you have a good excuse to go buy some real vice-grips! Yes maybe muck up the bleeder, but easy enough to screw another in if you care to.

Take doors off and use your foot brake... Who needs drums or discs? ever heard of Fred Flintstone?