fishnchipz

Hey guys.. seeking some advice before I start trouble shooting tomorrow.. did as much as I could in a hot parking lot @ dusk, she's still there... here's what I got...

1997 XJ SE, 4.0, 2WD
Driving just as fine as she always does, came off a 25mile drive, stopped in the parking lot.. Came out, key in ign, got all the normal illumination, turned key, start relay clicked once then lost all power.. Waited, tried several times & had the same result.. one click then totally dead..

Checked battery - 12.80v [therefore I am presuming the alt is good]

All fuses intact, relays do not appear to be bad on visual inspection

1. If the starter had busted a winding inside the case & was shorting out would that cause the vehicle to experience a complete power loss..?

2. Checked the visible ground straps under the hood, any hidden ground straps I need to look for, a bad ground would cause a complete power loss..?

3. Presuming the starter is good, the ECM module if burnt out would also cause a total loss of power..?


I left her totally dead, not responding to anything.. Also noticed that the past couple of weeks it has taken longer & longer to start on occasions, up to I'd said at least a 6-10 sec start, plus a foot full of gas..?

Anything you guys got would be great, new Jeep owner here [about a month].. I am thinking that this has to be a loose/open ground somewhere, best case scenario..


Thanks guys..

sthon

Sounds like a loose ground to me. I've had the same problem with a few different vehicles. Most recently my 92 XJ. Pulled off the interstate to get gas and tried to start it and nothing. On crank I would lose all power in the cab, checked my grounds and sure enough had a ground cable in the battery terminal come out just enough to screw up the contact.

fishnchipz

Hey there sthon..

Yes I am thinking/hoping the same.. I checked the battery terminals & the ground to the body right by the battery.. All seemed good with the ol' tug test.. Also note 2 weeks ago I replaced the terminals, cut wires back, cleaned up terminals on the battery & finished off with a coat of die-electric..

Any chassis grounding points I should look for, or motor ground, something underneath hiding away..? I'm going back to the parking lot @ 6am with my tools.. Should buy me a couple of hrs 'til the shoppers arrive..

Thank you

RTorrez1

Did you try getting a jump? Just because you have 12 volt doesn't mean you have enough amps for it to start. It can be many things. It could be as simple as sthon said. Bad ground, Bad battery, bad alternator, starter. The list can go on. But you do want to start with the simple thing. Start by having the battery checked with a load tester also check ALL the grounding points.

fishnchipz

If any other newbies are reading in the future refer to the info in the quote from a member called TJWALKER.. Thanks for this man.. [Relates to Ground locations]..


Hey RTorrez1,

If the battery is holding a strong 12.8v charge after a 25mile drive then I'm pretty sure the alt is not the issue.. Otherwise I would have a close to dead, or drained battery surely, due to the fact I have nothing charging it..?

I can see the starter going bad due to the bad location they are in, not ruling out the starter but what explains the total loss of power at the console..? First Jeep not first car & I have not seen a starter go bad & cause these same symptoms.. [Total continuous loss of power]

Ground straps def would cause the issues I am having..

Did not try a jump yet no.. just as it happens my cell fone dies about the same time my XJ did... lol

No load tester, no bs.. this is 6am parking lot guerrilla mechanics here.. Got a field piece meter & a bag full of tools.. Maybe a flashlight too.. lol

fishnchipz

UPDATE -

Headed out this morning, 6:30am, armed with wrenches & wet/dry paper.. Ground fault as suspected.. Drove her home & now I am going to upgrade them as the quote in my previous reply describes..

Thanks for the help guys..!

Muaddib420

Cool can you tell us which ground was faulty?

fishnchipz

Hey there...

The ground that was bad was the one from the negative battery terminal to the body right next to the battery.. I was 99% sure I had a ground fault by the symptoms, so I started with the closest one to the battery, justso happens that I got it first try..

The Fix -

Remove hex head sheet metal screw from body, disconnecting ground strap.

Sand area on body where the 'o-ring' connector touched the body.. This will give you a nice clean contact.

Sand the 'o-ring' connector, where contact is made with the body.

Reconnect to ground point.

Smear some die-electric to prevent corrosion in the future etc...

Drive home with a big smile cuz you just fixed your own ****... again...

PRICELESS..!

Muaddib420

Nice. Cheap fixes are the best fixes.

mike mike

Another happy ending!!!
I run a tow truck and about 1/3 of the no starts I deal with everyday are bad battery connections and cables.

fishnchipz

So went outside to leave earlier, no start, same symptoms...

Removed & cleaned the ground I repaired in the parking lot, sanded more & finished with a brass brush, reconnected, die-electric for protection, nothing..

Removed & cleaned the ground connector & stud that is on the passenger side of the block.. Same treatment as above..

Already replaced the battery terminals with new a couple of weeks ago, stripped back new copper etc etc... Found the torque on the clamps holding the wires down was a bit wimpy, re-torqued, die-electric, starts every time..

Since I'm off & pretty much solved my problem, I'm gonna go ahead & rebuild the starter, clean those connections & strip clean the motor..

http://jeep-xj.info/HowtoStarterClean.htm

The braided ground strap seems to be in good shape.. Regardless I'm gonna upgrade to #2 stranded, gas/oil resistant [freebie] wire..

sthon

Glad you got it figured out, and it was as easy as the grounds.

Firestorm500

If you still have a long crank time, your fuel pump may be getting weak.

fishnchipz

The crank time has improved & is back to just a couple of seconds.. Fuel pump is on the list, I was gonna rebuild the one I have but I have found them online for $80 new, claims OEM or better quality.. I have used off brand parts before with great success & I research what I buy heavily..

Putting parts together right now to re-do the who front end tie rods/ball joints/painted knuckles/bearings/slotted & drilled rotors/control arms/Moog trac bar/all poly bushings etc etc..

Muaddib420

I had similar symptoms and took apart and degreased the starter. Works like a charm. The key is cleaning the underside of the cap where the electrodes come in. Good luck.