chrisginco

EDIT/UPDATE and spoiler alert: If you want to skip to the probable fix, go to post #32. Other than that, hopefully, the other pix and info (and stupid mistakes) can help you out with any questions...

Used the search function and couldn't find my answer. Sorry if it's been covered.

I've read tons of the threads on the H4 upgrade and had previously done it on my 97 XJ without an issue.

So, I figured I'd do it on a 99 XJ (Country/Limited) that I acquired a while back. I bought the upgrade harness from LMC (p/n 36-3580 if I recall) and a Rampage H4 kit. I installed the kit and checked the lights (just before I had to leave for work). Here's the problem: Problem 1: Turn on lights. Low beam, no problem. High beam, no problem. Turn off light switch, lights don't turn off. Flip high beams back and forth...lights turn off. Hmmm. Problem 2: I'm at work and messing with the lights (on my break). Now, it's doing all sorts of weird stuff. I turned the lights on and off a couple of times and all was well. I spent a bit of time trying to adjust the beams and went to high beams and... high beams won't turn off. Flicking the high beam lever doesn't work. Turn off the light switch and the lights stay on. Turn off key, lights still on. Turn key back to on, and the lights go off. Hard to follow, I know, but the bottom line is "What the heck is going on?" Can anyone lend a hand? Hope I gave all the info needed for a response. Thanks in advance.

I think I installed the harness correctly. I unplugged old lights, ran harness and zip tied it down. Connected harness to old passenger side light socket. Both new sockets on the harness had their own grounds and I sanded down to bare metal before using a self tapper on each ground. I made a bracket for the relays and attached them to the pass. side fenderwell. I attached both hot leads from the relays to the battery. Installed new H4 housings and bulbs and put it back together. Did I miss something during the install?

MirageMobile

Read this post originally made by EZEARL (cruiser54 repost #164):

https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f51/he...1/#post2158730


So far, I've pulled the fog relay and left it at that. My fogs were inoperable at the time so it was the the easiest thing to do.

chrisginco

Thanks, MirageMobile, that's a great explanation by EZEARL. I've got a rough work week ahead, but I'll try to run that wire and report back when I can. It doesn't explain everything that's going on, but it's a start. Thanx.

Brezmer

remove the day time running light module, its located under drivers dash and has a little 4-6 wire harness going into it.

chrisginco

When I bought my XJ, it had been in a crash & (somewhat) repaired, but was missing the fog lamps. So, since I was in the midst of this issue, I figure that I may as well go ahead and put those in the mix. I installed them aannnd... they don't work. I'll check fuses or whatever today.

As far as daytime running lamps... I wasn't aware my XJ has those...

While reading EZEARL's fix on another thread (see link above), it was said to run a wire from the fog lamp relay near the old driver's side socket & run it back to the high beam relay on the 87 terminal. I hate to be an electronically challenged idiot, but which relay is for high beam, and which terminal is 87. I see the relay has 4 terminals...a little help, please? :-)

Another fix mentioned was to cut the previously mentioned wire and place an in line diode. But being an electronically challenged guy, which diode? I assume I can get what I need at Radio Shack. Do I go by voltage, amps? Is there AC and DC types? Help!

chrisginco

OK, so I had a chance to check a few things before work... As far as the fog lights go, I exchanged relays in the power center with the A/C clutch. A/C still works, so relay for fog lamps is good. All fuses seem to be OK on fuse panel. I do note that when I flip the fog lamp switch on, I don't see the LED light up.

Obviously, this doesn't fix my original problem of the brights not going off after doing the H4 harness upgrade, so I still kind of need answers to my above post regarding post 87 of the relay, or whether a diode is a viable fix. I'll do a search regarding relays, etc., but I could sure use a hand here.

Thanks

chrisginco

Just a bump for the morning crew...
Anyone else who might lend a hand? I'm kind of at a standstill until I get some help. I did some searches until my eyeballs crossed about relays, etc., but with all the different layouts, I don't know which terminal is 87. I'm sure I'm overthinking this, but... Thanx

DieselD

From the link posted above:


"1. Don't use your high beams, new lights are bright enough anyways (OK...) 2. If you have to use your high beams, turn your headlights off briefly to get them turn off (PITA) 3. Pull various fuses (lose your fog lights) 4. Pull the fog lamp relay (again, lose your fog lights) 5. Modify the fog lamp relay (fog lights work, but won't cut out when your high beams are on?) 6. Install a jumper in place of the fog light relay (fog lights work, but switch is always hot?)

One post I saw got it right though. lilredxj99 mentioned it in another thread which I didn't find until after the fact. The details were a little fuzzy and I still thought the issue deserved some further explanation so that's why I just wrote this damn novel...

Oh yeah, so the right way to do it... Cut the 20g Red Fog Lamp Relay #1 ground/trigger wire at the back of the driver's side headlight plug. Extend this wire using your preferred method so that it is long enough to reach your new aftermarket high beam relay. Splice it into the 87 pin (output) of your new high beam relay. If you have two 87's (which is ideal), either one is OK. Do not however use 87a if your relay has it!

Yep, that's it... Your high beams will now turn off when they're supposed to, your fog lights will turn on/off when they're supposed to, and your low beams will continue to work as they're supposed to. Sure you could have skipped all the way down to the bottom and found your answer, but you wanted to know how/why it works, right?"


EDIT: missed your last post.

Unplug one of the relays. See if your low beams work. If they do, you pulled the hi-beam relay. If not, then the other one is the hi-beam.

Does it not say which pin is which on the relay itself?

chrisginco

OK, quick update. Went out and found out which relay is high beam by pulling one of the relays as instructed in the above post by DieselD (insert picture of me slapping myself on the forehead...Hard...for not realizing the obvious. See, I said I was electrically challenged).
While the relay was out I looked very carefully, and, no, none of the terminals are marked. Where do I go from here to figure out which terminal is 87 to complete this fix?

I'm still also interested in the other fix that was posited regarding using a simple diode near the fog lamp driver's side relay (see my post above here somewhere)
Thanks in advance.
Chris

sgjii

The Terminal 87 reference comes from the terminal numbers associated to a Bosch Style Automotive Relay and refers to the Normally Open Contact. When the relay is energized it is the output wire.

The relay style used with the Putco Harness, and is pictured, is a Honda style relay and doesn't use the same terminal numbers. Honda Part#39797-SE0-004, BWD Part#R4136, Wells Part#19322, SMP Part#RY314 & Pilot Part#NV-RY1

To describe this relay's terminal configuration, I can reference to the above picture. Right hand terminals are the coil terminals and left hand terminals are the relay's switched contacts. I do not have a Putco Harness in front of me but the equivalent of Terminal 87 with be one of the left hand terminals. If the wiring harness is installed, with the relay plugged in and battery connected, then a voltmeter or test light can tell you which is which. With the headlight switch OFF, one of the left hand terminals will be hot & have 12V on it, this is the direct connection to the battery. The other terminal will have zero volts on it and will be connected to the headlight itself. The zero volt terminal, which goes to the headlight, IS the equivalent of Terminal 87.

I hope that helps,
Stephen

chrisginco

Stephen (SGjii), that's great info. Thanks...

So, based on the info provided by SGjii, I went out to check some of these theories and here's what I found. Those of you guys who already know how all this electrical stuff works will probably find this boring. Guys like me who need a step by step for the complete idiot, might find it useful.


The first picture is of both relays. The low beam relay is on the left. This relay has a red in the lower left. A double yellow in the upper left. A double blue/white in the top right and a white in the lower right.
The high beam relay is on the right. This relay has a red in the lower left. A double blue in the upper left. A single blue/wt in the upper right. A brown in the lower right.

Sooo, using the theory explained by SGjii and using my handy dandy 40 year old Snap-On test light, it was real easy to check which terminal was #87. On both relays the lower left terminal (Red, remember?) was hot with the key off. This would make the top left on both relays terminal 87. All other terminals were off.

Going further (this is where you can tune out if you want), I turned on the low beams. On the low beam relay, the red, double yellow (terminal 87), and white were all hot. The blue/wt (top right terminal) was not. The high beam relay had only the red terminal hot.

I turned on the high beams and on the high beam relay the red, double blue (terminal 87), and brown were all hot. The blue/wt (top right terminal) was not (yes, I'm seeing a pattern here...no, I don't really understand it, but...)

While experimenting with the low/high beams I was messing with the lever and trying to get the lights off bright, which of course I couldn't since I haven't done the fix yet. I did mess around with the test light and I found out that if I had the lever in the low beam position (brights on) and put the test light on the high beam brown lead, the relay clicked off and the high beams went off (no, I don't know what that means, either)

One last thing. After messing with all this a few times, I found that sometimes when I turned the headlight switch off, the lights stayed on until I flicked the lever to brights and back; then the lights turned off. A couple of times, the lights DID turn off with the headlight switch.

The second pic is of the (old) driver's side headlight plug with the slightly smaller red and (apparently) nefarious fog lamp relay wire on the left. Apparently, the fix is to cut into this smaller wire and run a wire to the high beam relay Terminal 87 lead. I haven't done it yet (had to go to work), but I'm hoping someone who has some brains will check my post and confirm this is correct (puhleeezzzee).

chrisginco

Oh yeah, and my OE style fog lamps I just installed still don't work. As I was putzing around with the wiring loom up front, I found this mess. What kind of fresh, new HELL is this?

For info, the fog lamp relay in the PDC is fine. I checked all the fuses in the passenger kick panel, but I didn't see in the "legend" in the 2001 XJ manual (I have a 99 XJ) a place for the fog lamps.

So, besides the cut wires/mess I just found, is there any other reason my fog lamps wouldn't work? I noticed some fuses in the PDC which all seemed to check out OK. Does anyone recognize those mess of wires? The colors? Are they the fog lamp wires which have been messed with, or cut?

Can anyone help, or should I start a new thread on that?

Thanx,
Chris

salad

99 eh? Maybe this will help





Does your XJ have DRLs? They can cause unending amounts of nonsense with the upgrade harness.

chrisginco

Salad, Holy Cats!! Thanks. For a dope like me, those diagrams can get me in trouble... But at least I might be able to figure out which wires in that loom mess up front are for what via color match, or whatever.

But for the record, no daytime running lights.

Thanx!

salad

Heh. Sure. The format for the wiring is run circuit ID, gauge, color. So Z12,16, BK/TN translates into a 16 AWG wire that's black with a tan stripe.

Good luck! Hope you find whatever's malfunctioning. All you need is the diagram and a multimeter