Dead Spot In Steering, Dangerous At High Speed
02-28-2017, 07:18 AM
#1
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Tulsa, OK
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Year: 1996
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Dead Spot In Steering, Dangerous At High Speed
OK, 96 XJ Up_Country
158,000 miles
Last Summer, out of nowhere the steering went crazy. Was first diagnosed as a bad steering box. Put in a NAPA stock replacement box.
Turns out, the problem was the KOR track bar. Put in a Rugged Ridge track bar and bracket: http://www.ruggedridge.com/hd-adj-fr...-18205-05.html
Also put in a Moog HD steering damper with a lifetime warranty: http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...2894&ppt=C0203
Problem solved.
Was going to sell the Jeep, waiting for some money to come in. Tires had 59,000 miles on them. I'd hoped to sell the Jeep without having to put tires on it, but they were nearly bald, dry-rotted, and one of them was starting to separate. I put a set of Yokahama Geolander AT GO15s on it in 255/60-16.
https://www.yokohamatire.com/tires/geolandar-a-t-g015
They said they couldn't align it because the ball joints and a tie rod end were bad.
Sigh .... guess I'll be keeping her for awhile.
So we replaced all 4 ball joints, and both tie rod ends. The control arm bushings looked a little sketchy, so we replaced the control arms with Moog Problem Solvers.
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo....1180314&jsn=25
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo....1180314&jsn=26
Replaced the sway bar end links, too.
The power steering pump had been giving me problems, too. In really cold weather, It was really jerky, and sometimes didn't work at all for the first 1/10th of a mile, or so. We replaced it with a stocker from NAPA.
When I was driving it to be aligned, it felt all darty and janky, but I thought that was because of the alignment being out. No such luck. It's been aligned, but it drives like a completely different vehicle. There's a noticeable dead spot in the wheel that appears to me to be worse at some times than others.
That's not all, though. I bought this Jeep new in 1996, and I've always loved the way it drove; almost like a sports coupe. Solid, tight steering, even at 90-95 mph. Now, it feels mushy and sloppy. The faster you go, the worse it gets. I took it up to 85 today, and nearly lost control.
I thought the dead spot in the wheel might be tie rod end roll, but we got up under it this evening and turned the wheel back and forth; couldn't see anything that looked wrong.
Does anyone have any ideas?
158,000 miles
Last Summer, out of nowhere the steering went crazy. Was first diagnosed as a bad steering box. Put in a NAPA stock replacement box.
Turns out, the problem was the KOR track bar. Put in a Rugged Ridge track bar and bracket: http://www.ruggedridge.com/hd-adj-fr...-18205-05.html
Also put in a Moog HD steering damper with a lifetime warranty: http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...2894&ppt=C0203
Problem solved.
Was going to sell the Jeep, waiting for some money to come in. Tires had 59,000 miles on them. I'd hoped to sell the Jeep without having to put tires on it, but they were nearly bald, dry-rotted, and one of them was starting to separate. I put a set of Yokahama Geolander AT GO15s on it in 255/60-16.
https://www.yokohamatire.com/tires/geolandar-a-t-g015
They said they couldn't align it because the ball joints and a tie rod end were bad.
Sigh .... guess I'll be keeping her for awhile.
So we replaced all 4 ball joints, and both tie rod ends. The control arm bushings looked a little sketchy, so we replaced the control arms with Moog Problem Solvers.
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo....1180314&jsn=25
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo....1180314&jsn=26
Replaced the sway bar end links, too.
The power steering pump had been giving me problems, too. In really cold weather, It was really jerky, and sometimes didn't work at all for the first 1/10th of a mile, or so. We replaced it with a stocker from NAPA.
When I was driving it to be aligned, it felt all darty and janky, but I thought that was because of the alignment being out. No such luck. It's been aligned, but it drives like a completely different vehicle. There's a noticeable dead spot in the wheel that appears to me to be worse at some times than others.
That's not all, though. I bought this Jeep new in 1996, and I've always loved the way it drove; almost like a sports coupe. Solid, tight steering, even at 90-95 mph. Now, it feels mushy and sloppy. The faster you go, the worse it gets. I took it up to 85 today, and nearly lost control.
I thought the dead spot in the wheel might be tie rod end roll, but we got up under it this evening and turned the wheel back and forth; couldn't see anything that looked wrong.
Does anyone have any ideas?
02-28-2017, 01:16 PM
#2
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Tarpon Springs, FL / Denver, CO
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Year: '98
Engine: 4.0 I6
Well, my dead spot was 100% the steering gear but that may not be the case for you.
The rest of my suspension is basically new - new ball joints, axle and driveshaft u joints, wheel bearings, power steering pump and lines, brand new ZJ steering, etc.
The first power steering pump I got was bad out of the box. Almost no pressure at idle and it would whine really really bad. Second reman'd pump I got from Lares was fine.
I had the steering gear swapped out with a Durango box that a local rebuilder had fully rebuilt (only $100), and that made my Jeep feel like a new vehicle. He adjusted it twice, and once more when I went to pick it up to make sure it was 100% dialed in.
My dead spot went from +- 20 degrees of play to about 3-5 degrees of play. Huge improvement and now I can hit potholes on the highway and the wheel doesnt jerk left or right (other than "normal" bumpsteer on a lifted XJ).
Are you 100% sure your steering gear is not the cause of the play? You should have minimal play from the steering input shaft (steering wheel side) till the pitman arm shows movement. My old box was REALLY bad in that regard and I had adjusted it until well beyond its "squealing" point.
Also check the frame and steering spacer for cracks.
The rest of my suspension is basically new - new ball joints, axle and driveshaft u joints, wheel bearings, power steering pump and lines, brand new ZJ steering, etc.
The first power steering pump I got was bad out of the box. Almost no pressure at idle and it would whine really really bad. Second reman'd pump I got from Lares was fine.
I had the steering gear swapped out with a Durango box that a local rebuilder had fully rebuilt (only $100), and that made my Jeep feel like a new vehicle. He adjusted it twice, and once more when I went to pick it up to make sure it was 100% dialed in.
My dead spot went from +- 20 degrees of play to about 3-5 degrees of play. Huge improvement and now I can hit potholes on the highway and the wheel doesnt jerk left or right (other than "normal" bumpsteer on a lifted XJ).
Are you 100% sure your steering gear is not the cause of the play? You should have minimal play from the steering input shaft (steering wheel side) till the pitman arm shows movement. My old box was REALLY bad in that regard and I had adjusted it until well beyond its "squealing" point.
Also check the frame and steering spacer for cracks.
02-28-2017, 02:44 PM
#3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
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2 Posts
Year: 1996
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Well, my dead spot was 100% the steering gear but that may not be the case for you.
The rest of my suspension is basically new - new ball joints, axle and driveshaft u joints, wheel bearings, power steering pump and lines, brand new ZJ steering, etc.
The first power steering pump I got was bad out of the box. Almost no pressure at idle and it would whine really really bad. Second reman'd pump I got from Lares was fine.
I had the steering gear swapped out with a Durango box that a local rebuilder had fully rebuilt (only $100), and that made my Jeep feel like a new vehicle. He adjusted it twice, and once more when I went to pick it up to make sure it was 100% dialed in.
My dead spot went from +- 20 degrees of play to about 3-5 degrees of play. Huge improvement and now I can hit potholes on the highway and the wheel doesnt jerk left or right (other than "normal" bumpsteer on a lifted XJ).
Are you 100% sure your steering gear is not the cause of the play? You should have minimal play from the steering input shaft (steering wheel side) till the pitman arm shows movement. My old box was REALLY bad in that regard and I had adjusted it until well beyond its "squealing" point.
Also check the frame and steering spacer for cracks.
The rest of my suspension is basically new - new ball joints, axle and driveshaft u joints, wheel bearings, power steering pump and lines, brand new ZJ steering, etc.
The first power steering pump I got was bad out of the box. Almost no pressure at idle and it would whine really really bad. Second reman'd pump I got from Lares was fine.
I had the steering gear swapped out with a Durango box that a local rebuilder had fully rebuilt (only $100), and that made my Jeep feel like a new vehicle. He adjusted it twice, and once more when I went to pick it up to make sure it was 100% dialed in.
My dead spot went from +- 20 degrees of play to about 3-5 degrees of play. Huge improvement and now I can hit potholes on the highway and the wheel doesnt jerk left or right (other than "normal" bumpsteer on a lifted XJ).
Are you 100% sure your steering gear is not the cause of the play? You should have minimal play from the steering input shaft (steering wheel side) till the pitman arm shows movement. My old box was REALLY bad in that regard and I had adjusted it until well beyond its "squealing" point.
Also check the frame and steering spacer for cracks.
It's also more than just a dead spot. It drives like a completely different vehicle. Once you get out of the dead spot, it's really twitchy. At 65 mph, swinging the wheel back and forth in the dead spot can grow into an oscillation that would eventually spin the Jeep out if I didn't back off. Road feel is terrible. It's like going from driving a BMW to a 75 Caprice.
02-28-2017, 05:54 PM
#4
CF Veteran
Sounds like your axle is still failing to locate properly left/right. Time to take another very careful look at the track bar. Its possible that putting in the new one temporarily solved the problem when it was nice an tight, but something might still be allowing play there. Have you had someone exercise the steering while you get your hands and eyes on the track bar to see if anything is moving in an undesired way?
If there is "play" between the steering wheel and the tires, it usually can be observed by having someone gently exercise the steering (about 1-2" back and forth), doesn't even require the motor running. Then check each component on down the line, ensuring that the input to the component matches the output in movement. Wheel to intermediate steering shaft, intermediate steering shaft to steering gear, steering gear to pitman arm, pitman arm to draglink, and draglink to knuckle.
Have you inspected the 2 small u-joints on the intermediate steering shaft for play?
If there is "play" between the steering wheel and the tires, it usually can be observed by having someone gently exercise the steering (about 1-2" back and forth), doesn't even require the motor running. Then check each component on down the line, ensuring that the input to the component matches the output in movement. Wheel to intermediate steering shaft, intermediate steering shaft to steering gear, steering gear to pitman arm, pitman arm to draglink, and draglink to knuckle.
Have you inspected the 2 small u-joints on the intermediate steering shaft for play?