A/C questions - Novice part 3

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Aug 9, 2018 | 07:50 PM
  #16  
Sounds like you're on the right track! Here's something you might want to look at, while checking out AC tools on Amazon I found an electronic sniffer for like $22. I have to wonder how good it really is but FWIW the reviews are mostly good. If it works at all it's tough to go wrong at that price. (I have an old Mac unit inherited from a deceased friend who was a master AC technician.)



Amazon Amazon
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Aug 9, 2018 | 11:16 PM
  #17  
Well, unfortunately my system did not hold vacuum after 24 hours. It was down to -10-ish.

I tightened up the connections extremely tight and re-vacuumed and will check again in the morning.

In the meanwhile, I ordered a new condenser and the high pressure hose that I couldn't disconnect, so barring the off-chance that I just needed to tighten up the connections, I'll have to wait a few days to put the new parts on and re-try.

I think I'll definitely have to pick up a leak tester regardless since it seems like an invaluable tool that I could use on all my vehicles.
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Aug 9, 2018 | 11:57 PM
  #18  
Quote: Well, unfortunately my system did not hold vacuum after 24 hours. It was down to -10-ish.

I tightened up the connections extremely tight and re-vacuumed and will check again in the morning.
I hate when that happens. At least it doesn't seem to be a large leak, hopefully it was just a loose fitting. Did you lube up the O-rings before putting them in and make sure they're seated OK? (Once when working on another vehicle I completely forgot to put an O-ring in a connector. Surprisingly this only resulted in a slow leak.)

Just to make things more interesting, remember that it's possible for a leak to be somewhere in your gauge set with its hoses, fittings, and connectors as well as the AC system itself.

If you get an electronic detector something to be aware of is they tend to be sensitive to air currents as well as actual refrigerant leaks. (At least that's been the case with the ones I've used.) I'll generally shield the tip on mine until the unit quiets down, then sniff for leaks. Engine should be off when you do this.
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Aug 10, 2018 | 12:24 AM
  #19  
Put dye in, charge, and wait until it blows warm. Get UV light and look for dye.

You've wasted enough time...
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Aug 10, 2018 | 10:48 AM
  #20  
Quote: I hate when that happens. At least it doesn't seem to be a large leak, hopefully it was just a loose fitting. Did you lube up the O-rings before putting them in and make sure they're seated OK? (Once when working on another vehicle I completely forgot to put an O-ring in a connector. Surprisingly this only resulted in a slow leak.)

Just to make things more interesting, remember that it's possible for a leak to be somewhere in your gauge set with its hoses, fittings, and connectors as well as the AC system itself.

If you get an electronic detector something to be aware of is they tend to be sensitive to air currents as well as actual refrigerant leaks. (At least that's been the case with the ones I've used.) I'll generally shield the tip on mine until the unit quiets down, then sniff for leaks. Engine should be off when you do this.
I used nylog on the o-rings and fitting threads. I definitely took care to make sure the fittings went together well. If anything, the only ones I'd worry about were the evap to expansion valve ones since they were a total PITA to get in place.

I ordered the new condenser and hose and will put those on as soon as they arrive. The condenser looks a little beat up anyway, so we'll see.

My plan at that point is to vacuum the system down again, put the front grill back on so that I can run the engine and then go ahead with the charge and check for leaks strategy as XJThrottle suggests.
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Aug 10, 2018 | 11:03 AM
  #21  
Leaks can be a real PITA to track down. Another possible problem area is the compressor shaft. You can get a leak there from a worn seal. Also the schrader valves where you hook up your gauge set can leak, though that leak would manifest itself when the gauge set hoses are disconnected. (The dust caps will not contain a large schrader valve leak.)

My XJ has a slow leak that I know is in the evaporator. Until it gets worse I'm just living with it. It's easier to top the AC system up once a year than to rip out the dashboard to replace the evaporator. Will replace if and when it gets real bad or the heater core starts leaking.
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Aug 10, 2018 | 12:22 PM
  #22  
Quote: Leaks can be a real PITA to track down. Another possible problem area is the compressor shaft. You can get a leak there from a worn seal. Also the schrader valves where you hook up your gauge set can leak, though that leak would manifest itself when the gauge set hoses are disconnected. (The dust caps will not contain a large schrader valve leak.)

My XJ has a slow leak that I know is in the evaporator. Until it gets worse I'm just living with it. It's easier to top the AC system up once a year than to rip out the dashboard to replace the evaporator. Will replace if and when it gets real bad or the heater core starts leaking.
Well, one of the thoughts on the hose replacement is that I'll have a new schrader valve as well as be certain that the o-ring between the condenser and hose is in good shape.

I would be definitely count this project as a success if I get working A/C that needs a top-off once a year. Since I'm doing it myself and don't have access to any recovery equipment, at least for my situation (being that I can take my time with it) I'm choosing to make sure that all the easy stuff is accounted for before putting refrigerant in. At that point, I'd be pissed if it was leaking at the one fitting I couldn't get off and had to pay for an evac and then had to pull the grille apart a second time because I was too lazy or cheap to just replace the hose and condenser. At least if it turns out to be a compressor or evaporator leak, I can go from that point and decide if/what I'm willing to do to get the A/C working.

If it turns out to be a leak in the evaporator that requires imminent replacement, I'm almost certainly going to put the A/C fix project on hold and see where I'm at next spring.
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Aug 10, 2018 | 12:30 PM
  #23  
Make sure you resist the temptation to put any kind of "sealer" in the system. That is asking for more trouble. The way those work is when exposed to atmospheric moisture, presumably at a leak site, the sealer hardens at that spot to "seal" the leak. Guess what happens if the entire AC system is exposed to atmosphere later for repairs? Of course the stuff hardens up wherever it happens to be in your air conditioner. A friend of mine did this several years ago on his Toyota Highlander and wound up having to replace pretty much the entire system including the compressor.
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Aug 10, 2018 | 03:21 PM
  #24  
Quote: Make sure you resist the temptation to put any kind of "sealer" in the system. That is asking for more trouble. The way those work is when exposed to atmospheric moisture, presumably at a leak site, the sealer hardens at that spot to "seal" the leak. Guess what happens if the entire AC system is exposed to atmosphere later for repairs? Of course the stuff hardens up wherever it happens to be in your air conditioner. A friend of mine did this several years ago on his Toyota Highlander and wound up having to replace pretty much the entire system including the compressor.
There's zero temptation to put that garbage in. In fact I'm always wary of any product that has any sort of "Stops leaks" claim on the label.

I am of the firm belief that they make all those "magic stop leak" products for sleazy people that are trying to hide a major problem in a car they're trying to sell to hapless buyers and extremely naive people that are trying to save money. In my experience, both the hapless buyer and naive person always end up (like your friend) spending more money in the end.

Hopefully I didn't have a P.O. that was foolish enough to do something like that.
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Aug 12, 2018 | 08:51 PM
  #25  
So an update.

As it turn out, my slow leak WAS in the gauge set!

Yesterday I was frustrated at the fact that the new hose and condenser were "scheduled for delivery" yesterday, but only the hose came in (despite them both coming from the same warehouse) and went to vacuum the system (thinking that I'd close the valves at the Schrader valve and check today. The vacuum only went down to -22 and I could hear a hissing.

Lo and behold there is a third connection that I was unaware of on the quick connector parts. I must have inadvertently loosened it when I put a wrench on it to tighten the hose. I tightened up that connection and left it overnight.
When I checked it earlier today -- ** -30 **!!!!!!!!!!!
My system IS holding vacuum!!

I'm about to put the grill on and put refrigerant in and see how it goes!

​​​​​​​I'll report back with results!
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Aug 12, 2018 | 10:17 PM
  #26  
I'd charge it and run it for a few days before putting it back together. As someone mentioned earlier, it may hold vacuum but not pressure. Unlikely, but possible.

You did put dye in it, right?
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Aug 12, 2018 | 10:24 PM
  #27  
I've been battling my own A/C demons lately. My '87 was converted to 134 w/ and aftermarket compressor. This system now has the charge ports on the back of the compressor, which is fine. But, they are too close together to be able to get both hoses from my gauge set on at the same time...


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Aug 13, 2018 | 09:43 AM
  #28  
Wow, I guess they designed it thinking "We need to get the Autozone can with the hose on it" and forgot about folks trying to actually diagnose the system.
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Aug 13, 2018 | 09:55 AM
  #29  
So I put the grill stuff back on (I'm not sure how I'd run it without putting it back together. I need the radiator cross-member to keep the radiator attached, then the e-fan and fan shroud attach to the cross-member.)

I charged the system, with the first can being the one with dye in it, and at one point the compresser and aux fan kicked on, but as I approached the "full" 2lb point, the compresser didn't kick on.

I looked into it a bit and it seems that the possible problems are:
1 - Fuse -Does anyone know which fuses/where the A/C clutch fuse is on a 95?
2 - Low pressure switch. Can I test this by jumping the switch - assuming if it kicks on that the switch is bad? Can I replace this switch without evac'ing the system? There was an O-ring on it when I installed it on the new R/D.
3 - Clutch thermal failure. There were a lot of mentions of shims and air gap. Can someone explain this clearly and how to check adjust?

​​​​​​​Thanks guys!
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Aug 13, 2018 | 07:06 PM
  #30  
You can jumper the low pressure switch as a test. At least on the later XJs there's a schrader valve under the switch so it can be replaced without discharging the system. (Not sure about '95.) You can also hot-wire the compressor clutch briefly to see if the clutch engages properly.

Such tests should only be done for a few seconds unless one is absolutely certain there is sufficient refrigerant and oil in the system to lubricate the compressor.
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