Yeah, I have heard about the 15% ethanol proposal too. I have NO idea what it will do to the beloved 4.0 unless some fiddling with the ECU/o2 sensor/fuel pressure is done.

Pretty much ALL U.S. vehicles since 1982ish can easily handle ethanol as far as the hoses and such. The problem is the AGE of the hoses. The ethanol collects water and will cause metals to rust where the water is sitting. Older vehicles, while able to originally deal with greater than 10% ethanol will have some age on the tanks and the rubber will be cracked by now anyway.

I had an '84 XJ with the 2.5 and was going to replace the carb anyways so I was gonna re-jet it for running E30 gas. As long as the carb can be adjusted for MORE fuel flow, higher alcohol levels are possible. Of course I changed all my original rubber fuel lines. Sold it though..

Don't get me started on Methanol that was used in the mid-late 70's/80's. Many an outboard motor has died a firey death due to the rubber hoses actually melting. ugh.

 

It Minnesota they have been doing tests on ethanol, as that state is the king when it comes to ethanol.
They are finding that E20 and even E30 have no affects on engines designed to run E10.
I'd just imagine with 20% and 30% ethanol that economy would start to down grade some as 10% really doesn't significantly mess with fuel economy.

 

I don't believe we should be putting our food supply in our gas tanks.

We have plenty of oil in the ground, we just need to get it out >>>>>

Not only oil but a massive surplus of natural gas! SO much natural gas in fact that companies began sealing off wells because it was driving the price down too far.

Imagine the savings if ALL government(state/fed/local) were required to switch to natural gas vehicles?

It's my understanding there is more oil under the Colorado plateau then all of Saudi Arabia?

The mechanic at a local ATV shop said that the reformulated gas in CA eats up small carbeurators, he said he's never seen so many carb. related problems as he has in the past 10+ years.

I think he's right, everything I own with a small engine has developed fuel delivery problems. Small engines that used to last many years without problems.

When I was a kid we found a lawn mower in the garage of the place we rented, thing was prob. made in the 60's(this was late 70's) my grandpa pulled the plug and cleaned it, squirted some gas in the carb and it fired right up. We used it for a few years before moving.

 

yeah, they estimate 1 trillion barrels in the Colorado plateau, which is 3 times the amount of reserves in Saudi Arabia.

I'm with you on the food supply into fuel. Doesn't really help gas prices, and it just increases the price of a majority of food. Anything that has corn in it, and all meat supplies other than fish.
Shoot, they could be at least using Switch Grass or something. Corn yields 3times less amount of ethanol per acre then what they use down in Brazil, Sugar Cane. Switch Grass yields even more ethanol than sugar cane and switch grass grows pretty much anywhere.

Half the price of crude though is due to speculators and America already produces half our oil consumption which doesn't seem to help prices.

 

It Minnesota they have been doing tests on ethanol, as that state is the king when it comes to ethanol.
They are finding that E20 and even E30 have no affects on engines designed to run E10.
>>>>>>>>

What about ALL the other engines that aren't? How long term are these studies? What is the trade off in MPG?

Like I said corn based ethanol is a JOKE, totally subsidized by the federal government to give the impression of being more "green". Switch to sugar beets and cut the cost of ethanol in half. I doubt the lobbiest for ADM would go for that though and instead will fight to keep the price of corn artifically inflated to line their pockets.

Brazil produces ethanol from sugar cane and their operations are 100% self sufficient on ethanol including processing facilities. In the meantime we're using gasoline and diesel to produce corn ethanol to a negative net sum gain. Look at the price of a bushel of corn compared to 10 years ago.

 

Look at the price of everything from 10 years ago. It just isn't corn that is going up.
Blender pumps are becoming popular so it won't be like you will be forced to use higher ethanol blends, but if you do you will benefit from slightly cheaper fuel.
I haven't really looked too much into their research though because I think that it is a joke that they are pushing so hard. e85fuel.com has a newsletter that comes out often that talks about all the ethanol news in America.

Ethanol has one of the strongest lobbyist their in Washington.



I'd like ethanol a little more if car companies also increased a engines output. Turbo engines would heavily benefit and even N/A engines can see decent power improvements, but all the E85 engines out there see no power gains other than like the 5.4L Triton.

Interesting. E85 in small lawn mower motor.

 

Actually reading that news letter EPA says 2001 and newer engines are ok with E15. A company is making a case that 1994 to 2000 is ok with E15.


It sucks cause as gasoline gets more expensive, it encourages ethanol as it becomes much cheaper. Easier for them to push on the public when the price is a lot cheaper.

 

Its not far off. Gas here in WI is $3.50 per regular gallon, not even premium.

Why not? If its cleaner and renewable, why waste time drilling?

Yeah, it happens to everything everywhere. Its called inflation.

I'm pretty sure no one is completely immune if I remember economics correctly.

 

I would like to at least fill up once on E15, E20 and E30 just to see what kind of economy I would get and how it would run in my engine.
Would be very interesting to see what the results say.

These studies that I am seeing only give the "we find its ok to run" and don't do any economy results.
See the economy difference and if the potential loss in economy is worth the reduced fuel price.

 

My exerience with ethanol has been a ton of carb buildup, replacing fuel lines, and clogged filters. This is not as serious in autos due to the rapid consumption, but my boats, mowers, and cycles do not like ethanol. I believe we have not used enough to make a sound decision as to how economically feasible ethanol is.

 

Ethanol is the biggest joke that has been shoved down our throats for a long, long time! It was pushed as being a cost effective, green energy gas replacement.
First, it isn't cost effective. Second, it isn't green, as a matter of fact it pollutes the environment more than gasoline, the extra chemicals used to grow the corn and process it in to fuel produce more CO2 than burning the same amount of gas. ( The Sierra club is the one stating this. ) Third, it screws up fuel filters and lines and just about any plastic or rubber parts that it touches.

 

Look at the price of everything from 10 years ago. It just isn't corn that is going up. >>>>>

That depends, the price of corn has risen disproportionaly compared to some other crops and ethanol production is why. IF they switched to sugar beets the MN corn farmers would scream bloody murder and the price of a bushel of corn would drop dramatically.

A 19" color TV cost $500 in 1976, I paid almost half that for a 32" this year.

 

People who are complaining about ethanol in gasoline were probably also complaining when lead was taken out of gasoline, and if not them, their parents were for sure.

Some companies are converting ethanol plants into butanol plants which they will make from algae. Butanol is a lot more like gasoline is then ethanol so should net near the same exact economy if you were to run 100% butanol. 10% ethanol is ok to run in gasoline engines, near 20% butanol would be ok to run in engines. Main problem with butanol is that it is toxic at a certain level so needs to go through EPA testing to see if it will be safe to put into vehicles.
Has a lower octane rating as well, but still higher than premium in 100% form. I think like 96 octane, and ethanol in 100% form is like 113 octane.

 

Oh really?

Try buying a NEW car today for half the price of a NEW car in 1976.

 

You better have a money tree to get set up for it than.