farmfuel

Ulendo,

Please explain again why there is a balance issue using the GM standard transmissions- the way the guys over at www.4X4labs.com do it? The guy over there says he's got over 500 miles on his OM617/SM465 in his LC, using a custom machined (supposed to be supplied soon in bulk) two piece flywheel that is supposed to be "balanced correctly for the OM617)

I'm totally turned off now to the idea of running a Benz slush box if it doesn't have OD. I need OD. If it's too high geared, then I'll change the rear end gears (for pulling)

I've seen 240D's at the wrecking yard with the OM616 and 4 speed manuals. If that's what it comes down to- not having overdrive, I think I'd rather have a turbo 4 cyl w/ a 4 speed. Any way you can get your hands on a marine turbo 616 manifold? Theses things aren't exactly a dime a dozen.

Fish N Kid

Thanks for the NOVAK link. Their is some really good information on there about gear ratios, conversions, expected MPH, RPMS etc. I'll have to spend some more time researching what I think is going to work best.

jeep210

Sounds like a pretty mean swap. You should definitely post a write up of the swap after you finish it.

ulendo

weight is about the same, and the Toyota case doesnt use slip yokes again, there's a photo of the engine/tranny/case on my photobucket site. overall length from the front of the motor, to face of the rear ouput is ~2" shorter than the OE 4L setup. I do a lot of technical 4 wheeling, mixed with long range trail work, so a twin stick case with ultra low range fits my needs perfectly... if its not what you need, hey, no worries, and I've already listed some of the other options.

not sure the rules on here about posting vs advertising...its a performance truck shop, in kelowna BC. lifts, bumpers, winches, programmers, 2000hp in floor dyno, you name it. the shop and dyno pics on p'bucket are 'work' . we're interested in all makes and models, and I'll be posting a seperate thread about some of the custom stuff we're getting into..just as soon as I find out the rules on here. ( see upcoming photos of my XJ, too...anything on it is through the store...got questions, you can always message, or email me.

ulendo

first off the guys at 4x4 labs DONT do it - they've been working on that kit ( promising dates over and over) for at least 5 years. I asked a few questions about the kit on the forum/bbs they used to operate, which they declined to answer.....their BBS was then conveniently 'hacked', and they shut down the BBS: nice way to get rid of all those pesky educated questions, no? There also used to be a good Benz forum ( mercedes veterans) and those guys were clamoring for manual transmissions solutions...but wouldnt touch the 4x4labs stuff, either. draw your own conclusions.

the issue is dynamic balance on the Benz 5 cylinder configuration: its externally balanced, and uses both the flywheel, and harmonic damper to keep the engine smooth. its critical enough that Mercedes dont even make a direct bolt in flywheel replacement for the 5 - the factory book specifies removing the rotating assembly, and dynamically balancing it with the new flywheel. how bad is it? a few years ago a couple of guys in New england were convinced that since the OM616 4 cylinder came with manual trannies that the 5 could work just as well. took a pair of good 300TD's, had 'balanced' flywheels made, and used GM HD SM465 boxes swapped into early land rovers. Heading N from Syrucase area, they were off to Nova Scotia to try some of the roads there....neither made it to the Canadian border. one trashed the bearings from high impact vibrations, the other put a rod through the side of the block when the guts shook loose. personally, I'll pass on either of those 'results'.

I'll also add that like all engines, there are some fundamental parts of the Benz diesels ( cams, fuel cycle in the injection pump, prechamber flow design,etc) that are designed to operate, and carry load at specific rpms. As found in the various Benz sedans, the OM616 ( aka 240D) had a 70mph cruising rpm in the 2800-3400 rpm range. the OM 617's ( aka 300D/TD/CD/SD ) were aimed for 70 mph @ 2400-3000 rpm. trying to operate them radically outside of those numbers wont allow them to work efficiently, and you would most likley be disappointed in the mileage, power, and possibly durability. 33's, stock 3.54's and no OD would give ~2600@ 70 mph....just about dead on for the 617. As for high end rpm, OM616, and OM617 have 2 specificed redlines...max rpm no-load is 5200 rpm, and max under full load is 4600 rpm. Forced upshift on the Benz autos is right at 5000-5200, which gives some idea of how benz expect the motor to be used.

if you want to build a 300 manual tranny setup..more power to you. I'd love to see it done properly. only reasonable advice I could offer might be to look to the Daimler Marine line, and see how they hook up marine final drives...pirate one of those flywheels, and SAE housings, the use a HD, OD N.American tranny of some kind.

Fish N Kid

Ulendo,

Which did you decide on? AX5 or the Benz transmission and Toyota trans case?

ulendo

I'll be using the Benz auto, and the Toyota case...used them in my last setup very successfully. its my opinion...and nothing more than that...but I think teh OD would drop the revs too much for the oil pump to hold the bearing load. Also, I live in the rockies, and have some reservations about <2000 rpm vs boost levels, even with the modified turbo I plan on running.

was slow at work today, and I actually started stripping the t-case down to build the remote shifter assembly. ( kind of sucks - I work on other peoples toys all day, but rarely have time to play on my own!!)

Fish N Kid

If you dont mind would you take some pics of the t-case tear down and build up so I have something to go buy before I get into mine. It would be really helpful.

Also, when I go to look for a 'Yota T-Case does it matter what transmission I get it off of, Manual or Auto?

I have you done any modifications to the oil pan?? I am wondering if I will have a clearance issue with steering and front end stuff?

BlueRu

This looks like it would be a lot of fun! I am really interested in the end result as far as trailability goes. Sounds like you do quite a bit of this type of stuff though.

ulendo

lol - yah, you might say that: I've been messing around using Benz diesels in small 4x4's for about 12 years now. Built a handful myself, and offered 'tech support' on a number of other builds. got photos of some of them on my photobucket page if you're real curious:
http://s419.photobucket.com/albums/pp276/ulendo/


also a tidbit for anyone with a good military surplus connection: the Mercedes G wagen used a divorced transfer case behind the normal sedan automatic...center rear drop, left front, so it'd almost be a bolt in on the cherokee. 2 things to consider though: a) all the benz (ZF) cases I know of are full time 4x4,(which I dont particularly want) and there are no crawler gearsets available for them ( again, not what I'm heading for) ...other than that, they'd make for a quick clean swap...

Fish N Kid - I'm setting up a bunch of photos for you: bear with me for a day or so, and I'll add an album to photobucket for you with all teh high res images

BlueRu

I spread the word about your build with some guys and instructors at school. They want to drive it when your done. (Not kidding. They tried to find out where you lived.) They also wish you bunches of luck on the fitment!

Fish N Kid

Where are you? Where do you goto school? I'm in south Florida.

Fish N Kid

Thanks. I'm hoping to get the engine and transmission on on a crate this weekend and transport it to my garage. No rush on the pictures.... I have to locate a tx case.

BlueRu

I'm in Arizona and go to school at UTI. Its an automotive school.

Fish N Kid

What type of Toyota transfer case should I be tracking down???

Moving the 'Benz motor and transmission to the house this week. That way I can work on the engine and bolt up the trans. Nothing like getting the engine running on a test stand before putting it in the vehicle.