SeniorXJ

-So after alot of searching, i cant seem to find a 200 amp alternator cheaper then the $399 Mean Green, & a $363 Powermaster from summit. Im lookin to spend round the $200 mark, & ebay has the only cheaper options. Im just afraid that, "u get what u pay for" will come into affect with a $200 buck, 200amp alt from ebay!!

-I already have a beefed up 140amp alt in the stock location & its just not doin the job!! Im also thinkin of doing this mod, http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthrea...tor+relocation, & was wondering if any type of alt could be used with custom bracketry, so that i can spread out my options??

-I know the WJ's have the alt in my 1995's AC compressor location, so what about usin that bracketry & see what aftermarket alts the WJ's have available??

-FYI, i have the 4.0L HO motor,, i just put in a brand new yellow top,, i swapped in all new 2g wiring,, & installed some heavy duty inline fuse blocks & splitters.

Thanks,
SeniorXJ

SeniorXJ

Heres 2 from ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...d=260632574789

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...d=360297171606

Opinions please & thank you!!

5-90

What all are you running that your 140A isn't up to scratch?

It is entirely possible to run dual alternators - Ford does it with their Ambulance and PD packages (especially the ambulances - netting something like 320-340A total capacity.) You will need a second regulator - either an external regulator to drive the second alternator, or a "one-wire" alternator with an internal regulator (that is wired up to sense system voltage inside the alternator case.) Theoretically, a shop should be able to many any internally-regulated alternator a "one-wire" or "self-exciting" job (the terms are used interchangably by people who know both - not all shops know both...) but a Delco will be easiest (since Delcos are most often used in swaps, conversions, or custom work.)

You should have no trouble getting a shop to build you a one-wire SI or CS series alternator, but the CS series (CS121 in particular) tends to be smaller - unless you go with a CS144.

Most shops can get you a CS144 up around 200A without too much trouble (they're the big later Delcos,) but you'll get a persistent DTC if you switch away from the Nippondenso you now have.

If you're going to adapt bracketry, you can probably go ahead and adapt in a Delco anyhow while you're about it. Looks like the ND units used in most ZJ/WJ with the 6-242 will have a 180* mount, which will simplify adapting to the Delco (most Delcos use a 180* mount.) The Bosch units - while I don't have pictures of both of them - probably do not. Bosch always does do things a bit strange...

This, of course, is from a 2005 catalogue (I have it out while I'm working on conversion notes anyhow. I plan to take better pictures of all of the units in question - once I have a list and a half-day to spend at Rod's with my camera...)

Meantime, feel free to ask if you have any further questions - I'll help you as much as I can. Be wary of your having posted this on so many boards as well - the responses you're going to get in all of these threads will be disjointed (not many people actually check all of the boards that I do, which is how I know you've cross-posted.) Just bear that in mind when you're correlating information. I answered here first because this is where I saw it first...

2Evil4U

That was my thought. The 140A unit equals nearly 1700W at 12V. If it's for a stereo, maybe you need bigger caps as well?

Diesel

Caps arent efficient in car audio systems, even a 2 Farad wont do much justice.

Mind you 200A is advertised, your best bet is to run dual batteries if you arent yet. If thats not sufficient than do the alt upgrade.

Go through Iraggi and ask for Dominic, every car audio buff who knows anything uses Iraggi. I do the same for the offroad world. When he lists it as 200 amps, its 200 amps rms.

5-90

You sure about that? "RMS" means "Root-Mean-Square," and is a mathematical means of measuring the amplitude of a regular waveform (kinda like AC voltage.)

Automotive is DC voltage - save inside the alternator case itself, before the output goes into the rectifier diode pack (and that, as I recall, is a full-wave bridge, so you don't get the "chopped DC" that you'd have with a single diode...)

Do you mean that it puts out 200A at idle? That's incredible! Does it have an absolute output potential of 200A? That makes more sense - what spindle speed do you need to hit before you can reach that potential? OEM alternators are usually only good for 35-45% of max rated at idle speeds, and don't have the ability to give full output until ~1200-1500rpm at the crankshaft (pully ratios, y'know...)

Diesel

Not kind of like AC Voltage, anything that is represented by a Sine/Square/Sawtooth/... waveform.

I inserted the abbreviation RMS to dumb it down per say. When someone with little or no experience sees RMS they dont think the statistical measure of the magnitude of a varying quantity. They think "Oh, that means the actual power I am getting.

So lets say that Alternator is 200 Amperes at 5500 RPM, that .036 amperes for every RPM, or 36ma. Lets average Idle at 600RPM, the output at idle that is advertised would be 21.6 amperes. Now decrease the efficiency by 30% and you end up with 18.2 amperes at idle. Compared to OE at 9.78 at idle, approx. Not worth the money in my opinion, now Iraggi has always been within the 10% range of rated output, much better.

And about 1200rpm is not peak, 6500 RPM for many aftermarket alternators is peak output. I know you said at the CS, but most people would read right over that part.

Now you get where im coming from?

SeniorXJ

-Thanks, nice reply!! Only thing is that id rather try a single 200 amp alt VS running two 140's. I was gonna do a dual battery setup, but since my 10yr old optima finally gave out, i had to buy a new one anyways & there was a noticable difference!! My alt is a stocker thats beefed up & since its kinda small in size, packing it full of copper will eventually fry itself quicker & so this is another reason for needing an aftermarket 200 amp alternator!! Faret caps for the amps are also a good idea!!

-After installing the new yellow top, i ran a load test on the charging system & when i threw on "some" of the accessories, i had a 2 volt drop from 14 down to 12!! Ofcourse this was at idle & power was restored with a steady throttle, but i still need the extra juice as my accessory list is demanding...
-Roof lights, five 150watt sealed beam KC daylighters,
-H4 headlight conversion w/100watt KC driving lights,
-Tripple elecric fan setup w/overide,
-ARB compressor, rigged OBA,
-Stereo: 2 amps rated at 2000rms each, not all is in use, 8 speakers/4 tweeters & a 750rms single sub setup,
-Misc stuff like a GPS, aux rear lights, some blue interior/guage lighting, CB, etc...

Ofcourse im NOT using all of this at once, but the daily use from the stereo, trip elec fans, & the driving lights, is enough to drop the 2 volts alone!!! Any word on those ebay alt's, or am i stuck spending $400 beans on the popular mean green here???

SeniorXJ

-Yes i should deffinately add in a cap as my amps are rated at 2000rms each, but not all is used!! Do u have a link for this Iraggi alternator brand as im havin some trouble finding the exact place to call & order?? Oh & i really hope that these alt's hit peak amps WAY before 6500 rpms cauz the cherokee will NEVER see 6500 rpm's!!

Thanks!!

Diesel

No your not, if you were you would know all about capacitors and car audio systems. Brand, Series, Impedance?

Read up on Caps- http://www.caraudioforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=26


Check out Ebay for Iraggis or email him directly, dominick@tds.net, tell him egg sent you.

mcssls

I got a dakota alternator on ebay (was listed as xj so I had to grind the brackets down) was a rebuilt and the spec sheet with it said it peaked at 500 pulley rpm at 180 amp, I paid 105 shipped. With that and the 4 awg complete wiring kit everything is sooo much better.

SeniorXJ

-Umm..?? What & why are u saying, "no your not" to me for?? Doesnt make any sence, & yes, i do know a good deal on car audio, so id appreciate it if ud refraim from ur negativity & make ur replies in a positive light ok there bud!!

storm101

only input I've got on this topic is on your ebay link to the bnr parts store 200 amp alt, DONT buy it! Well unless you want to spend over 200$ on shipping and 2 busted *** wrong alternators to just video tape the 2nd pos they send you to get your cash back.

just a forewarning to anyone looking at that link. Think I still have my video if anyone wants proof lol

carry on, just wanted to save a headache.

5-90

I see where you're coming from, even if you got what I'd said reversed. OK either way - and I do understand waveforms (radio background - difference between RMS and PEP isn't a total mystery to me, either...)

I suppose - it just seemed like a misuse of the term to me. DC is supposed to be steady-state voltage (even though AC rectified to DC invariably involves a miniscule - but measurable, with the proper instruments - amount of diode ripple. For most automotive applications, it's mechanically insignificant.)

I'm assuming most of the speeds you're referring to (except for the "1200rpm is not peak" bit?) are referring to spindle speeds at the alternator, and not crankshaft RPM, correct? I figure you are, but that's why I tend to denote those varying speeds when I cite them (since just about everything in the engine bay turns at a different - and usually faster - speed than the crankshaft. The sole exception being the camshaft, with turns at one-half of crankshaft speed. Everything else varies by pully ratio...)

I just want to make sure that you and I are on the same page, at least.

Diesel

Its not negativity. Your not running anywhere near that power on one low end alternator and one optima battery.

Yes, I am referring to the spindle speeds, I rarely refer to the RPM of the CS. We're pretty much on the same page, I just try to stay away from technical statements as other users can be confused quite quickly. Not many people are MECP/CCC/HAVIC/Etc. Or even have a slight background in the field.