muckfoot

suspension- i will modify it but keep it low as possible

XJlimitedx99

Cut fenders with 31x10.5 all terrains on factory sized wheels. Worked like a charm.

Charley3

I'm not sure how large tires Bushsmacker can fit without lift. You should research that before making delineate plans.

Why do you want a long-arm kit? You don't need a long-arm suspension until your lift is somewhere well over 3". I'm not sure how high before it needs a long-arm. Other guys here would know.

What happened to your low center of gravity (LCOG) dreams?

Charley3

It worked like a charm using stock 15 x 7 with 5.25 BS wheels. That makes sense with the substantial fender trimming you did. Are you going to put on aftermarket flares?

I'd like to see someone try 31 x 10.5 ATs with stock TJ Wrangler 15 x 8 with 5.5 BS, stock fenders and flares, and low lift or no lift. I think that might all fit with stock fenders and flares. It not, then do a little trimming.

StuckBuck

Long arms have nothing to do with lift height. I mean yes a 6in lift with short arms is going to ride really stiff and long arms will smooth it out but you can run short arms on a big lift, it's just not advised. Long arms definitely don't mean you're not low cog in fact long arms play a huge role in low cog builds. Long arms are all about articulation, they change the geometry of your suspension. You really should go read this thread, there is a ton of really good info on here:

Low cog thread: https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f67/lo...24-12-a-32980/

Also this video explains long arms vs short arms very well:

Charley3

Long-arms are related to lift height because they are only needed for higher lifts. I'm not saying you couldn't install long-arms with stock suspension or low lift, but why would you? It seems unnecessary to me.

How many people do you know who are using long-arms at stock suspension height?

XJlimitedx99

This was on a friend's Jeep that he no longer has. Needless to say, it never got flares.

I always advocate cutting fenders for the wheel well clearance. The factory flares on these are so small that trying to fit big tires without opening them up is a fools errand IMO. I've always like those Notch Custom's flares.

StuckBuck

Did you read that thread and watch that video?!?!?! It answers everything you just said! yes if your building something with wheeling in mind then long arms is the correct way to go but there are many many xjs with 6+ lifts and short arms. In fact I'd bet there's a lot more xjs out there with short arms than long arms because of the fact that it is way cheaper to go short arms. Like I said long arms are all about the geometry of the suspension. Even at stock or close to stock long arms are gunna flex way more than short arms. Please read that thread and watch that video they are very informative.

Charley3

I already knew all that stuff, but I watched it because you asked me to. Then I (painfully) watched it a 2nd time to make sure I didn't miss anything.

There is nothing in that video that contradicts anything I've said. In fact, if anything he made a statement that supports what I said. He said long-arms help with high lift heights. At no time did he recommend them for stock height XJs or low lifts (2" or less is what I consider low).

My XJ has 1.25" lift and Bilstein 5100 shocks (can extend long enough for 3" lift, but work well for 1" to 3" lift) and longer brake lines rated for 3" lifts. The limiting factor for my articulation is shocks extended length, but the Bil shocks extend far enough for plenty of extra suspension droop, and they are able to compress enough to use with stock bumpstops (though I do have 1/2" bumpstops extension). My shocks length are my limit for articulation, but these shocks allow plenty of travel.

Long-arms would NOT increase my suspension travel or articulation since it's my shocks that limit that. I don't want longer shocks (don't want 4" lift rated shocks) because they wouldn't be able to compress far enough for my setup (unless I extended my bumpstops, but then I'd lose uptravel).

Long-arms would NOT improve my ride quality because it's already perfect (better than stock). I'm lifted 1.25" in front (and therefore have 1.25" more uptravel to eat bumps comfortably), but that's not much lift. My front springs are 140 lbs Old Man Emu TJ springs (softer, but longer than stock springs).

Stock LCAs rode well for me, but the castor wasn't quite what I wanted. So I installed JKS adjustable length LCAs and my ride is even better because the arms are adjusted slightly longer than stock arms for slightly better angle than stock arm would give, and JKS uses stock rubber bushings (comfortable ride), and my castor is now adjustable and perfect.

Long-arms would NOT improve my ride comfort because it's already perfect due to only 1.25" lift, adjustable length lower control arms (aka adjustable short-arms), and good choice of shocks.

That's with my 1.25" lifted front-end. WIth a stock height XJ the thought of long-arms seems ridiculous me. No offend intended. I did watch the video twice, and I still think the same.

Also, since long-arm setups are really intended for (and only needed for) higher lifts, how do you know they can adjust short enough for use with no lift, 1" or 2" lift? Please call the manufacturer and ask them. I'd love to hear that conversation. I bet their first question would be why on earth would you want a long-arm with zero lift? OR Why would you want long-arm with 2" or less lift? After they stop scratching their heads, then ask if their long-arms are able to adjust short enough for proper castor and axle position with no lift. They'd probably say they don't know (since they probably never tested that) or they might say no. I seriously doubt they built-in length adjust-ability to accomodate zero lift.

Charley3

Muckfoot, since you're looking at long-arms, let me ask this. How much lift are you considering with long-arms?

Realistically, a long-arm setup would be painfully complicated and expensive for a beginner (or intermediate) Jeeper. If you lift far enough (3"+ or 4"+) to actually need a long-arm, then you'll have a bunch of other complications and expenses may bring you beyond your budget. You might run out of money before you're done and not have a driveable Jeep.

Whatever you think a build involving more than 2" (and certainly more than 3") lift will cost, it will probably cost double after you work out steering, alignment, and drive-line angles problems caused by more than 2" (or certainly more than 2.5") lift. If you aren't lifting above 2" or 3" then a long-arm is unnecessary and might not work because the manufacturers build those long-arms for higher lifts. The long-arms are adjustable length to adjust castor and axle position, but their adjustments are probably for 3"+ or 4"+ lift. i.e. - long-arms might not be able to adjust short enough for 2" or less lift. You'd have to call the manufacturer and ask. Though be prepared for them to ask why you'd want to long-arm with no lift or less than 3" lift.

Charley3

I think it would be a lot more sensible (especially for your first build) to lift between 1 to 2 inches (I prefer 1.25 front, 1.75 rear), or don't lift and use stock suspension as you first planned, or a combination of those.

With stock suspension use stock control arms.

With 1 to 2 inches lift you could use stock control arms, but it works best with adjustable length short arms. They can adjust longer than stock arms (as needed for 1 to 4" lift). They work well with 3" or less lift. They work beautifully with my 1.25" lifted front-end. I prefer JKS LCA short-arms because they have rubber bushings at both ends for a soft ride.

Those options allow 31" tires (along with knowing various ways to fit them) and a good onroad and offroad rig and will fall within your budget, even after you have fixed and adjusted all details. You'd have a good ride with no bumpsteer, good highway steering and tracking, comfortable ride, and good offroad ability too.

===

On the other hand, if you've caught the fever for more lift, I'd say that's unfortunate, but if that's the case keep it to no more than 3". Metalcloak makes the best 3" lifts. Not sure if they're within your budget. With 3" lift you might have to solve several secondary problems, such as drive-line angles, possibly bumpsteer, etc, which adds up in time, money, and frustrations, but can be done. However, I doubt your budget would hold out.

===

Keep in mind, this is your first build. Make goals you can for sure achieve. There's nothing worse than biting off more than you can chew financially or knowledge-wise.

BTW - this is my 3rd Jeep. My first was a 96 XJ that stayed mostly stock. My 2nd was an LJ that I spent a some time and money modifying for 33s, which I liked. Later I modified it a bunch more for 35s and it got painfully expensive and I didn't like the daily driver results much at all. I preferred it with 33s, but had wasted a bunch of money setting up LCOG for 35s (including AEV hood and fenders). But even with 33s I didn't like the LJ as much as my 96 XJ with 235 tires. The 96 XJ with 235s was a way better daily driver and it hauled butt. The big heavy modified LJ was a sluggish pig onroad. So I sold my LJ and bough my 99 XJ. From my prior experiences I had learned that I preferred XJs and low lifts. So I setup my 99 XJ to run 30 x 6.5 or 31 x 9.5 and it works well for both those tire sizes. I don't have a need for 31 x 10.5, but I have curiosity to see if they'd fit with 1.25" lift and no trimming.

I have spent much less money on my 99 XJ than I did my 06 LJ Rubi, but I like my 99 XJ much better. Sometimes less is better, especially in your case since it's your first Jeep build.

5-Speed

You are correct here. Your shocks are your limiting factor. There is a way to change this (not a simple bolt on). Like you said, if you go with a longer shock, you will need a longer bump stop which limits up travel. But at the same time, a 1" longer compressed shock will net you a total of 2" more down travel. So how do you get a longer shock in without needing a longer bump stop? Move the shock mount. Either the lower mount needs to get mounted lower or the top mount needs to mount higher. I will be doing a write up on mine when I try to squeeze a huge shock on a low lift (3.5"). This will net me max up travel (for my current tire, fender bump stop combo) yet will also net me max down travel since the shocks will be a lot longer then your typical 3" lift shock. Best of both worlds.

For the long arm vs short arm deal. You really would not benefit from a long arm kit since you dont have much down travel and not much of a lift. For anyone using longer shocks resulting in a lot more down travel (regardless of lift size), a long arm will help keep the wheels centered when moving down. I was trying to find a picture of someone flexing out a short arm kit to the max. The wheels almost ended up folding under the fender due to the bad angle. A long arm would keep the wheels almost centered and have a lot better angles. So to me, a long arm is better no matter what the lift size is. Just depends on how much down travel you have to be able to justify it.

Martlor13

I don't think it's unfortunate if he caught the fever. A 3 inch lift is the most common and the most used by beginners. All the "issues" you brought up don't happen to a lot of people and are very manageable and very well within his budget as long as he's not planning something that is way out there if they do pop up. I know your trying really hard to only have him lift an inch, but if he wants to lift, I say lift. Start at 3 inches and you can build off of that. Zone, rubicon express, ironrock offroad, and rustys are all great options. He doesn't have to go with Metalcloak.

muckfoot

I think I do have the fever! so many great ideas. I think I just out grew this tread.
I should probably go check out the longarm treads.


im now looking at 33s + longarm + low COG.


but I like what Charley says - it will probably cost double.

thanks again guys! for so much info

StuckBuck

I apologize, I didn't realize your xj was perfect.....

To be clear I was never talking about your xj, I'm talking about low cog xjs in general. If you are building a low cog xj, the general idea is to keep as low of ground clearance as possible while at the same time gaining as much down travel as possible. Most guys are running decent size tires so up travel is kept to a minimum. Therefore a very small lift, long shocks, correct bumps, and long arms is the most successful setup for a low cog xj. If you want to argue that go ahead but it has been proven countless times. I was simply saying that even on a low or even stock height lift, long arms are an upgrade. And yes for your xj (a milder build that you are willing to feel is plenty enough flex with short arms) short arms are fine. BUT.... if you ran longer shocks, long arms would allow your xj to have more articulation....period. That is all I'm trying to say. You said something earlier about "other guys on here might know what lift height is required to run long arms", so I simply answered your question. The answer is plain and simply: There is NO REQUIRED lift height to run long arms. You can run them stock if you wanted to or you could run them on a 90" inch lift. All long arms do is change the geometry of your suspension which in turn will give you more articulation (if control arms are your limiting factor).

And also I'm sorry I didn't make it very clear the only thing I was meaning from the video is to understand what long arms are if you didn't. Everything else I was talking about came from the thread. I didn't mean for you to watch the video twice lol. And as far as talking to lift manufactures, most companies that build higher quality 3 links/long arms will build you whatever length arms you ask for, it may not be on their website but they have the ability to build it for you. And in a low cog build, I think it is a better idea to build it yourself if you have the fab skills required. Mostly for the fact that most manufactures build it as a bolt on for a stock xj and the belly pan hangs low. I think clocking the t-case and having a flat belly pan is important for a low cog build (this was covered in that thread) and most manufactures aren't that flat.