Comanche Concept (Redesign) Inputs!
07-28-2016, 05:05 PM
#16
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Is it a marketing thing? Or maybe is your purpose to create a design that isn't meant to be produced but instead merely inspire the production design?
More back on topic...
My random design thoughts are generally:
- You'll certainly want ideas for a proper off-road version with approach/exit/breakover angles, recovery, and suspension well-considered. A version for the urban crowd with air dam, side skirting, etc to give it style and aerodynamic benefits without looking like they're just tacked onto an already finished vehicle. I feel like these two extremes really could each look equally awesome while looking quite dissimilar given their two different purposes.
- VISIBILITY! It's for safety, and offroaders will love it, too. The small window, big/tall door thing (Camaro is a great example but FAR from the only one) is getting pretty tired. Likewise, I loathe undersized rear windows and how often I see modern vehicle with poor lines of sight (blind spots, fat pillars in the way, undersized windows) for the driver. I don't like driving around in an aquarium either, but so many cars recently have laughable visibility (FJ Cruiser comes to mind right now as another great offender).
- The tailgate spare is interesting. It would set the vehicle apart from the rest, and prevents the opportunity for corrosion and other damage to muck up the currently common approach of mounting the spare under the bed. Aesthetically, I like the angled version--it could interfere with bed caps, but who's to say the back of the bed cap can't be similarly angled? Yeah, less space, but it would be an interesting look and probably slightly more aerodynamic.
- I've always wanted to see a comeback of the 2-way tailgate. Can either flip it down or open it to the side on a hinge (e.g. Chevy/Buick Caprice/Roadmaster wagons of the 90's). Heck, let's get MORE extreme: flip it down or open it barn/french door style--I have no idea how such a tailgate would maintain its rigidity when flipped down, but we're dreaming, right?
- If you're at all capable of creating a design that can in any way influence how the nuts and bolts are done, please, do what you can to create a design that is as mechanic-friendly as possible. Sooooo many cars have so many utterly stupid designs in their assembly, engine, transmission, suspension....I know engineers can't think of everything, but my mom's 04 Tracker comes to mind as a vehicle, as neat a compact SUV as it is, that is infuriating to work on at almost every turn--it's like they were trying to make as many tasks as difficult as possible. Even changing oil on that thing is a minor nightmare. Basically having to pull the engine out of my girlfriend's old 98 Outback just to change spark plugs was another design situation that just about gave me a stroke.
- I like how your version (in comparison to your teacher's) generally has straighter lines and is slightly more angular rather than being so slopey/curvy. I think the straight lines and the overall simplicity of the original XJ/MJ design was an important part of its success and, as a result, is an important part of its lasting appeal/nostalgia.
Competition is stiff right now with how great both the newest Tacos and Colo/Canyons look. While I know that you can't visually design reliability, time will tell if they'll actually be a reliable as they are promising. Jeepers love reliability. I know it's not flashy and really isn't that important to many consumers today (heck, most of them don't even know what REAL reliability in a car is), but I think, especially in the truck market and double-especially when targeting people like "us," reliability is super important.
BONUS: Here's a fun and remotely-related link! http://autosofinterest.com/2013/03/2...jeep-cherokee/
Last edited by mschi772; 07-28-2016 at 05:42 PM.
07-28-2016, 09:51 PM
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07-29-2016, 08:15 AM
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It will be hard to make it not look like the upcoming Hyundai Santa Cruz.
http://autoweek.com/article/car-news...lit-production
https://www.google.com/search?q=Hyun...w=1920&bih=984
07-29-2016, 04:18 PM
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Not to derail this, but I'd be interested in hearing why. I'm sure you're not unaware of how much production models get mocked for so often looking next-to-nothing like the concepts they were born from. I find it strange that the lesson being taught and the status quo is to create designs that are deliberately unrealistic.
Is it a marketing thing? Or maybe is your purpose to create a design that isn't meant to be produced but instead merely inspire the production design?
It is just to emphasize the design of the wheel and other various key features that are meant to stand out when presented to the board of an automaker that decides if they will put it into production or not. Plus a car rendering that is traced from an actual picture of a car looks very out of proportion and therefore wont be as appealing to the board I mentioned. The exaggerated wheel size actually has a name, Donk. Some designs are for inspiration and to have a peak at what the future of the automobile will look like (I.E. autonomous cars) but most are concepts that are intended to be produced within the next 3-5 years. Hope that helps.
More back on topic...
My random design thoughts are generally:
It sounds like you're talking about the third image. That would be my teachers design. He does this thing where he'll take a concept done by a student and trace it on another piece of paper and yet somehow it will look amazing compared to the design he traced over.
I would love to do straighter lines but when incorporating futuristic design aspect to a concept, it ends up being hard to have a futuristic concept without having more rounded edges. For example, compare the 1984 Cherokee to the 2001 Cherokee. As small of a change it is, the 2001 Cherokee was rounded off. I hope that example shows the kind of funk I'm in with trying to find the balance between curved and straight edges. The front will have to be more curved do make it slightly more aerodynamic and comply with safety laws.
Competition is stiff right now with how great both the newest Tacos and Colo/Canyons look. While I know that you can't visually design reliability, time will tell if they'll actually be a reliable as they are promising. Jeepers love reliability. I know it's not flashy and really isn't that important to many consumers today (heck, most of them don't even know what REAL reliability in a car is), but I think, especially in the truck market and double-especially when targeting people like "us," reliability is super important.
Yeah, the Colorado is the biggest competitor for a pickup in the mid-sized pickup category. I went onto the Chevy website to do the Build and Price for the Colorado to see what kind of options are available and let me tell you, there are a lot, so I need to design something that has room for multiple package choices, something that is [mostly] easy to customize (I.E. flares, bumpers, rock sliders, lift kits, etc), and appeals to more than just the mid-sized pickup market because from what I've read, it seems like the reason the Comanche was discontinued was due to the lack of an appeal to more than one market other than, of course, the mid-sized pickup category.
BONUS: Here's a fun and remotely-related link! http://autosofinterest.com/2013/03/2...jeep-cherokee/
Is it a marketing thing? Or maybe is your purpose to create a design that isn't meant to be produced but instead merely inspire the production design?
It is just to emphasize the design of the wheel and other various key features that are meant to stand out when presented to the board of an automaker that decides if they will put it into production or not. Plus a car rendering that is traced from an actual picture of a car looks very out of proportion and therefore wont be as appealing to the board I mentioned. The exaggerated wheel size actually has a name, Donk. Some designs are for inspiration and to have a peak at what the future of the automobile will look like (I.E. autonomous cars) but most are concepts that are intended to be produced within the next 3-5 years. Hope that helps.
More back on topic...
My random design thoughts are generally:
- You'll certainly want ideas for a proper off-road version with approach/exit/breakover angles, recovery, and suspension well-considered. A version for the urban crowd with air dam, side skirting, etc to give it style and aerodynamic benefits without looking like they're just tacked onto an already finished vehicle. I feel like these two extremes really could each look equally awesome while looking quite dissimilar given their two different purposes.
Good idea. I'll experiment with that, too. - VISIBILITY! It's for safety, and offroaders will love it, too. The small window, big/tall door thing (Camaro is a great example but FAR from the only one) is getting pretty tired. Likewise, I loathe undersized rear windows and how often I see modern vehicle with poor lines of sight (blind spots, fat pillars in the way, undersized windows) for the driver. I don't like driving around in an aquarium either, but so many cars recently have laughable visibility (FJ Cruiser comes to mind right now as another great offender).
Yeah, I definitally agree. The only blind-spot in the XJ was the spare. With technology advancing at faster and faster rates (E.g. the camera in the iPhone 6s compared to the one in the 5s), smaller A, B, and C pillars will be able to be just as rigid and still have the airbags that the current thicker pillars have. How about the off road package have thinner pillars for more visibility and the street package have slightly thicker ones? I was thinking of an extended cab style with no B pillars and the doors would be sort of like the F-150 Regular Cab with the rear accessible doors but there would be back seats instead.
Attachment 292198
- The tailgate spare is interesting. It would set the vehicle apart from the rest, and prevents the opportunity for corrosion and other damage to muck up the currently common approach of mounting the spare under the bed. Aesthetically, I like the angled version--it could interfere with bed caps, but who's to say the back of the bed cap can't be similarly angled? Yeah, less space, but it would be an interesting look and probably slightly more aerodynamic.
I understand what you're saying. I am trying to make this design stand out from the other mid sized pickups like the Colorado, Tacoma, etc. My reasoning to the placement of the spare is; better departure angle because the spare doesn't hang so low, and to appeal to JK owners because the JK market is booming and I'm sure that will last a very long time so a side swinging tailgate mounted spare is a feature recognized by even non-Jeep owners.
The angled version is just me trying to add a design aspect that is unique to this Comanche redesign, and pickups in general. Also based off of the sloping backs of a military Humvee (the Humvee was based off of the Cherokee and that way it will also have a nostalgic appeal to the vets who served along side of the Humvee). Or the Starwood Motors JK's for those who hate Humvee's.
Attachment 292202
Fun Fact: the Renegade taillights are based off of the WWII Jerry cans.
Attachment 292200
Attachment 292201 - I've always wanted to see a comeback of the 2-way tailgate. Can either flip it down or open it to the side on a hinge (e.g. Chevy/Buick Caprice/Roadmaster wagons of the 90's). Heck, let's get MORE extreme: flip it down or open it barn/french door style--I have no idea how such a tailgate would maintain its rigidity when flipped down, but we're dreaming, right?
I'm no engineer but if I'm picturing your fold down idea correctly, it sounds like it would have to be very heavy to retain any useful strength to support a person or two sitting on it. Like I mentioned, I'm going for the JK tailgate that swings to the side to appeal towards the people who would buy a JK. Also, I saw this tailgate design that is like the barn/French door style you mentioned:
Attachment 292197 - If you're at all capable of creating a design that can in any way influence how the nuts and bolts are done, please, do what you can to create a design that is as mechanic-friendly as possible. Sooooo many cars have so many utterly stupid designs in their assembly, engine, transmission, suspension....I know engineers can't think of everything, but my mom's 04 Tracker comes to mind as a vehicle, as neat a compact SUV as it is, that is infuriating to work on at almost every turn--it's like they were trying to make as many tasks as difficult as possible. Even changing oil on that thing is a minor nightmare. Basically having to pull the engine out of my girlfriend's old 98 Outback just to change spark plugs was another design situation that just about gave me a stroke.
I feel you on that 100%. I can't even change the bulb on my Grandma's IS250 because the whole enclosure needs to be removed from the car and taken apart. The first thing that pops to my mind when you say "mechanically-friendly" is a clam-shell style hood that includes the grill (for easier radiator access) and that extends down the side front quarter panels to the wheel lip (the outer edge of the flare) so the sides of the engine can be accessed more easily also sort of like the Dodge Viper (Dodge and Jeep are both part of Chrysler so why not lol
)
Attachment 292203
For rear accessibility, the bed can be removed (as a single piece or panel by panel for those who don't have help for repairs/maintenance). This feature is quite common already among pickups but it doesn't look like a popular pickup feature for future designs.
- I like how your version (in comparison to your teacher's) generally has straighter lines and is slightly more angular rather than being so slopey/curvy. I think the straight lines and the overall simplicity of the original XJ/MJ design was an important part of its success and, as a result, is an important part of its lasting appeal/nostalgia.
It sounds like you're talking about the third image. That would be my teachers design. He does this thing where he'll take a concept done by a student and trace it on another piece of paper and yet somehow it will look amazing compared to the design he traced over.
I would love to do straighter lines but when incorporating futuristic design aspect to a concept, it ends up being hard to have a futuristic concept without having more rounded edges. For example, compare the 1984 Cherokee to the 2001 Cherokee. As small of a change it is, the 2001 Cherokee was rounded off. I hope that example shows the kind of funk I'm in with trying to find the balance between curved and straight edges. The front will have to be more curved do make it slightly more aerodynamic and comply with safety laws.Competition is stiff right now with how great both the newest Tacos and Colo/Canyons look. While I know that you can't visually design reliability, time will tell if they'll actually be a reliable as they are promising. Jeepers love reliability. I know it's not flashy and really isn't that important to many consumers today (heck, most of them don't even know what REAL reliability in a car is), but I think, especially in the truck market and double-especially when targeting people like "us," reliability is super important.
Yeah, the Colorado is the biggest competitor for a pickup in the mid-sized pickup category. I went onto the Chevy website to do the Build and Price for the Colorado to see what kind of options are available and let me tell you, there are a lot, so I need to design something that has room for multiple package choices, something that is [mostly] easy to customize (I.E. flares, bumpers, rock sliders, lift kits, etc), and appeals to more than just the mid-sized pickup market because from what I've read, it seems like the reason the Comanche was discontinued was due to the lack of an appeal to more than one market other than, of course, the mid-sized pickup category.
BONUS: Here's a fun and remotely-related link! http://autosofinterest.com/2013/03/2...jeep-cherokee/
I am experimenting with these kinds of headdlights because they are unique, futuristic, and from the front they are square. What do you think?
Attachment 292215
'Exaggerated wheel/rim size' and 'chopped roof line' is cheating in the design.
Yes it is, but it's changed once the engineers start working on it to make it practical. The roof line wont be as short as it is, I'm about to sketch a few other versions with higher roof lines. For example, if my design were to end up on the streets, the wheels for the off-road version would have a thick tire and the rim would be about 15" like the stock Cherokee did (at least that's how it is for my 89 Limited).
It will be hard to make it not look like the upcoming Hyundai Santa Cruz.
http://autoweek.com/article/car-news...lit-production
https://www.google.com/search?q=Hyun...w=1920&bih=984
Yes it is, but it's changed once the engineers start working on it to make it practical. The roof line wont be as short as it is, I'm about to sketch a few other versions with higher roof lines. For example, if my design were to end up on the streets, the wheels for the off-road version would have a thick tire and the rim would be about 15" like the stock Cherokee did (at least that's how it is for my 89 Limited).
It will be hard to make it not look like the upcoming Hyundai Santa Cruz.
http://autoweek.com/article/car-news...lit-production
https://www.google.com/search?q=Hyun...w=1920&bih=984
I am going to try to avoid a design like that...thing... as much as possible!!Last edited by LiamLikeNeeson; 07-29-2016 at 04:27 PM. Reason: Pictures didn't load
07-29-2016, 04:30 PM
#21
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It seems like the images I attached aren't showing up where I wanted them to. If you guys are having the same issue, it looks like the images were posted separately from my quotes but it should be fairly easy to figure out which picture goes with which quote of mine.
07-29-2016, 06:12 PM
#23
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Speaking of tailgates and how they open. The side-swung ones so often hinge on the passenger side. As the largest portion of the market drives and parks on the right side of the road, I've always thought putting the hinge on the driver side would make more sense for better access when parked curbside--the open door wouldn't be blocking you as you come and go if you're loading up a bunch of stuff.
07-29-2016, 06:34 PM
#24
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Speaking of tailgates and how they open. The side-swung ones so often hinge on the passenger side. As the largest portion of the market drives and parks on the right side of the road, I've always thought putting the hinge on the driver side would make more sense for better access when parked curbside--the open door wouldn't be blocking you as you come and go if you're loading up a bunch of stuff.
07-30-2016, 07:14 AM
#25
edit
I'm playing with............learning..............windows 10........sorry for the edits.
I have something to say regarding image posted below............later today.
I'm playing with............learning..............windows 10........sorry for the edits.
I have something to say regarding image posted below............later today.
Last edited by Jeep Driver; 07-30-2016 at 08:57 AM.
07-31-2016, 07:31 AM
#27
The '69 Camaro, iconic American design.
If GM's engineers/designers/marketers collectively possessed more than 3 active brain cells, they would bring back the '69, IOWs, build the '17 Camaro with with modern drive train/suspension/electronics in such a way that they two could not be discerned at a glance. But, they won't.
I guarantee you they would pre-sell 110% of them before they stamped they first trunk lid, the Jay Lenos and David Freiburgers of the world would buy them by the dozen.
But, they won't.
Just as the Concept Comanche has no semblance to the Comanche as does the KL to the Cherokee.
Concept designs are used to prod the buying public into accepting, over time, something they would not accept today. And, unfortunately, to move the brand away from it's original intended use.
They only vehicle that Jeep produces today that resembles Jeep at all is the Wrangler, ten years from now that won't exist either.
If GM's engineers/designers/marketers collectively possessed more than 3 active brain cells, they would bring back the '69, IOWs, build the '17 Camaro with with modern drive train/suspension/electronics in such a way that they two could not be discerned at a glance. But, they won't.
I guarantee you they would pre-sell 110% of them before they stamped they first trunk lid, the Jay Lenos and David Freiburgers of the world would buy them by the dozen.
But, they won't.
Just as the Concept Comanche has no semblance to the Comanche as does the KL to the Cherokee.
Concept designs are used to prod the buying public into accepting, over time, something they would not accept today. And, unfortunately, to move the brand away from it's original intended use.
They only vehicle that Jeep produces today that resembles Jeep at all is the Wrangler, ten years from now that won't exist either.
07-31-2016, 07:24 PM
#28
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Wow this drawings are amazing!
But they look more of a Cherokee than a Comanche...
The orange one add a bed in the back I think would look good...although it does look like the latest Cherokee...
But they look more of a Cherokee than a Comanche...
The orange one add a bed in the back I think would look good...although it does look like the latest Cherokee...
08-01-2016, 11:12 AM
#30
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Year: 1989 Limited
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The '69 Camaro, iconic American design.
If GM's engineers/designers/marketers collectively possessed more than 3 active brain cells, they would bring back the '69, IOWs, build the '17 Camaro with with modern drive train/suspension/electronics in such a way that they two could not be discerned at a glance. But, they won't.
I guarantee you they would pre-sell 110% of them before they stamped they first trunk lid, the Jay Lenos and David Freiburgers of the world would buy them by the dozen.
But, they won't.
Just as the Concept Comanche has no semblance to the Comanche as does the KL to the Cherokee.
Concept designs are used to prod the buying public into accepting, over time, something they would not accept today. And, unfortunately, to move the brand away from it's original intended use.
They only vehicle that Jeep produces today that resembles Jeep at all is the Wrangler, ten years from now that won't exist either.
If GM's engineers/designers/marketers collectively possessed more than 3 active brain cells, they would bring back the '69, IOWs, build the '17 Camaro with with modern drive train/suspension/electronics in such a way that they two could not be discerned at a glance. But, they won't.
I guarantee you they would pre-sell 110% of them before they stamped they first trunk lid, the Jay Lenos and David Freiburgers of the world would buy them by the dozen.
But, they won't.
Just as the Concept Comanche has no semblance to the Comanche as does the KL to the Cherokee.
Concept designs are used to prod the buying public into accepting, over time, something they would not accept today. And, unfortunately, to move the brand away from it's original intended use.
They only vehicle that Jeep produces today that resembles Jeep at all is the Wrangler, ten years from now that won't exist either.