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Weird Bolt Deformation

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Old 10-10-2017, 04:44 PM   #1
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Default Weird Bolt Deformation

Not a question/problem in the tech sense, but more of a "who else has seen this?" kind of post—I'm curious.

A few years back when I pulled my '96 blown engine, I ran into issues with the top, E12-headed bolts. One came out smooth as silk, the other I ended up having to cut into the ear, which was fine since the short block was hosed.

My curiosity is geared more at what I found when I cut into it:

Here's the original pic I took:


And here's an enhancement of the bolt cross section:


Anyone ever seen something like that? is that the bolt going in all screwy and the factory hand just said, screw it, and kept on impacting till it was flush?

It doesn't seem a bolt could get that kind of deformation without simply shearing…
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Old 10-10-2017, 07:53 PM   #2
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Not a question/problem in the tech sense, but more of a "who else has seen this?" kind of post—I'm curious.

A few years back when I pulled my '96 blown engine, I ran into issues with the top, E12-headed bolts. One came out smooth as silk, the other I ended up having to cut into the ear, which was fine since the short block was hosed.

My curiosity is geared more at what I found when I cut into it:

Here's the original pic I took:


And here's an enhancement of the bolt cross section:


Anyone ever seen something like that? is that the bolt going in all screwy and the factory hand just said, screw it, and kept on impacting till it was flush?

It doesn't seem a bolt could get that kind of deformation without simply shearing…
That is weird. Maybe it did shear along a diagonal line inside the hole and like you say they just kept hammering on it.
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Old 10-10-2017, 08:06 PM   #3
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You cut into the bolt on an angle in the threaded area. Of course it's going to look weird, plus it may have been too long and bottomed in the thread.
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:47 PM   #4
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You cut into the bolt on an angle in the threaded area. Of course it's going to look weird, plus it may have been too long and bottomed in the thread.
Heh. Maybe I did. Still a weird shape.

Iwas trying to avoid nicking the bell housing. That first cut was Dremel induced and I know it wasn't perfectly vertical, and gave up after a whole pack of discs. Don't know why I didn't go angle grinder from the beginning. Oh well, spilled milk.
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Old 10-11-2017, 11:31 AM   #5
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What I'm saying is if it bottomed on the thread, it stretched the cast iron and added to the weirdness. Being a toolmaker, I've seen many weird things like this.
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:05 PM   #6
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What I'm saying is if it bottomed on the thread, it stretched the cast iron and added to the weirdness. Being a toolmaker, I've seen many weird things like this.
Hey toolmaker... My new son in law is a toolmaker. He just converted a real nice and tight old huge manual mill into a CAD with stepmotors. I can't wait to play with this one. lol
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Old 10-12-2017, 06:13 AM   #7
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Yeah, he probably put ball screws in it too. No backlash. The main problem with CNC is the programming. I'm a dinosaur and can run anything with manual controls and electric or hydraulic assist, but not numerical control with a computer. Give me an old Bridgeport and I'll make anything that will fit on the table. I ran a 28X60 Cincinnati Hydrotel for 5 years with a 3D hydraulic tracer. Most of those still being used have been converted to electric power and ball screws.
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:45 AM   #8
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What I'm saying is if it bottomed on the thread, it stretched the cast iron and added to the weirdness. Being a toolmaker, I've seen many weird things like this.
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Yeah, he probably put ball screws in it too. No backlash. The main problem with CNC is the programming. I'm a dinosaur and can run anything with manual controls and electric or hydraulic assist, but not numerical control with a computer. Give me an old Bridgeport and I'll make anything that will fit on the table. I ran a 28X60 Cincinnati Hydrotel for 5 years with a 3D hydraulic tracer. Most of those still being used have been converted to electric power and ball screws.
Sounds like you know your stuff! That's pretty cool you can just look at it and come up o with a plausible explanation.

Is there any way to get around that if it happens again (I'm guessing it's pretty unlikely) on a reusable block?

Would one just cut the head, drill and tap (or take it to someone like you who could do it perfectly straight in their sleep)? Or would you do it another way?
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:22 AM   #9
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Yeah, he probably put ball screws in it too. No backlash. The main problem with CNC is the programming. I'm a dinosaur and can run anything with manual controls and electric or hydraulic assist, but not numerical control with a computer. Give me an old Bridgeport and I'll make anything that will fit on the table. I ran a 28X60 Cincinnati Hydrotel for 5 years with a 3D hydraulic tracer. Most of those still being used have been converted to electric power and ball screws.
Honestly, I am not sure what all it entails to make it work, he is much more on top of mill works than I am. I have done some simple stuff and made a few needed specialty parts but not at all a toolmaker.
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:29 PM   #10
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Sounds like you know your stuff! That's pretty cool you can just look at it and come up o with a plausible explanation.

Is there any way to get around that if it happens again (I'm guessing it's pretty unlikely) on a reusable block?

Would one just cut the head, drill and tap (or take it to someone like you who could do it perfectly straight in their sleep)? Or would you do it another way?
Grind the head off, being careful to not cut into the bellhousing, separate the engine from the trans, weld a nut on the extended bolt, and crank it out. If it doesn't come out, then you'll have to drill and tap.
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:35 PM   #11
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Grind the head off, being careful to not cut into the bellhousing, separate the engine from the trans, weld a nut on the extended bolt, and crank it out. If it doesn't come out, then you'll have to drill and tap.
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:43 PM   #12
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Honestly, I am not sure what all it entails to make it work, he is much more on top of mill works than I am. I have done some simple stuff and made a few needed specialty parts but not at all a toolmaker.
When I started my apprenticeship, I was told the difference between a machinist and a toolmaker. A machinist can do anything on equipment he knows how operate. A toolmaker takes a blueprint, plans the work, and uses whatever material and equipment he needs to make the part. A good toolmaker can be judged by his chips, quantity and color. I had lots of fun making speed parts for friends. I made a 4 bbl manifold for a Dodge slant 6! I also did some modifications to a few Muncie 4-speed cases for a guy who was building competition boxes.
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:11 PM   #13
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When I started my apprenticeship, I was told the difference between a machinist and a toolmaker. A machinist can do anything on equipment he knows how operate. A toolmaker takes a blueprint, plans the work, and uses whatever material and equipment he needs to make the part. A good toolmaker can be judged by his chips, quantity and color. I had lots of fun making speed parts for friends. I made a 4 bbl manifold for a Dodge slant 6! I also did some modifications to a few Muncie 4-speed cases for a guy who was building competition boxes.
I have done a little green sand casting and milling to plane.
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