politics

Old 07-06-2010, 07:14 PM
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why do people hide their political views?
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Old 07-06-2010, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Tural View Post
why do people hide their political views?
I don't. It causes me grief on a daily basis (I'm a Libertarian in California - the whole damned state has gone unabashedly Statist Democrat!) but I'm not going to hide what I think and who I think it about.

And, sometimes, I manage to encourage individual thought. So, why break a pattern? I figure if I can get people to think for themselves and not "hold to the Party line," I must be doing something right...
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Old 07-06-2010, 08:15 PM
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People hide their political views for the same reason that the guy smiles and nods even though he hates ya. B/c people are cowards, lazy, and dumb. They don't even know why they are a Democrat or Republican. People know nothing about politics or worldly issues. They just nod their bobble heads and agree with whatever sounds good.
The messed up thing is. It doesn't even take a party title (repub or demo). It takes humanity and common sense to know what to do. Who gives a rip what party it is. Do they do what we need and want them to do?
One of my friends made a statement on how we should be a socialist country. I damn near punched em in the throat. I can't stand unions or lazy union workers (MUNI) or people that can't think for themselves.
that's why I support independent businesses. They had the forethought to get of their @$$ and do it them self.
If you want to live in a socialist country move to freakin canada, eh! Where the hard working can't get ahead and the lazy prosper.

When are the people of the U.S going to get together and over throw this F*ed up government? How is it that a President gets better protection over the guy that has ground breaking theories? Einstein didn't get secrete service.

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Old 07-06-2010, 08:55 PM
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coward... lazy.... so, fear.
i can accept that. fear. that word gets thrown around so much lately. i actually think it has lost its meaning. i think nowadays when people say fear, they mean embarrassment.
my favorite subject in college was sociology. specifically group dynamics. it's very intriguing how people change their views based on the social environment. people refuse to see that their pattern of thought follows an exact trajectory of a textbook defined variable group. many like to follow the political choices of their family. others change to be rebellious. and some, choose politics as a style. the camillion people. the two faced ones...
politics originally implies social order. social order requires social commitment.
i look around. people trying to beat the system. and they do, you know. they do beat the system, while you and me are working that 1 hour overtime every day to save up for that new bumper, or locker, or maybe just save up.
i think about lazy people a lot. because, i think they are the main cause of all political conflicts. i define laziness as a lack of commitment to discipline and social responsibility. it's a disease. most people that catch it, never get cured. it plays with people's minds. changes their pattern of though. not very soon, these people realize that their ideology of life as it should be is absurd to others.
so, they say, we will hide our ideology. our political standing. because people might not ACCEPT it.
it's like a growth of a bacteria or a virus. it creates a silent war. the one that eye cannot see, but it takes many casualties...
i sometimes wonder, what a flawless social ideology would be. anyone open for debate?
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Old 07-06-2010, 09:03 PM
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Don't forget the media that helps these "cameleons" feed into thoughts that they don't own themselves.
I'm tuned into this. I dig the way you think. I've gotta leave work right now. Be logged on in a few.
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Old 07-06-2010, 09:13 PM
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that's a big limitation. as long as entertainment makes money, media will never pursue social interest or function in a civilized manner.
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Old 07-07-2010, 12:08 AM
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Touching back on your comment of, "fear." I have to agree with you all the way. I also think that some people hold back b/c of loud mouths that push their opinions and words so strongly. Like how I've noticed republicans will speak over whom ever they are debating with. However, I find there is no room for the meek in a place of debate. People change their views in a group b/c they don't want to stand out. To be judge and disregarded from the group. Until you manage to get a rebel and that rebel finds other rebels.
People not caring is what I think has been taking place as each year goes on. And each generation keeps breading. Caring about things that actually matter have taken a seat on the back burner in lue of mindless entertainment. Whereas home cooked meals, reading to your child, paying attention to world and local events, politics, and the such. Should have a front row seat in everyone's life.
I have this friend that's a hip hop artist, "Jacewon." He has this line, "*** keepin it real. Try keepin it right." That's line in its self is so applicable to so many avenues in life. I apply to what your thread is about in my life.
While people have their pay checks dangling from their rims and necks. When we should be knowing how we're getting f*ed in the anus so "leaders" can send their kids to private school.
Speaking of Sociology. One interesting fact I learned while taking that course. Most people haven't even read 25% of the books they have on their book shelf. How weak is that? It this fake persona to make them look well read and whatnot. Sorry that was off topic.
Each selection of media is intended to instill fear into the public. But how is it that a person of political debate only listens to one side of the radio dial? I don't claim either popular party. But I listen to them both. Even though I can't stand certain Liberals and Republicans. I still do it b/c they both have something to say. And some times it makes sense.

Another thing I don't get are Unions. Those damn things kill me. Especially the ones here in California. I trash talk union workers all the time, so sorry fella's if I offend you. I'm generalizing. But mainly speaking from my local experiences. They biotch moan and groan all the time. MUNI bus drivers in San francisco make 80K a yr not including over time. Best bennefits and pention plans. Not a damn one has a freakin AA or BA. I have 2 college degrees! And hardly make that much. So they sit around complaining about their work while the city is hurtin like no other for money but yet they still get paid bank! These liberal wing nuts let that mess fly. That's killin tax payers and on top of it public transit isn't even worth taking.
And yet no one speaks up. All these muni drivers are black folk. They have **** poor attitudes and simply don't care. And not that its a color thing. Its a mentality thing. A entitlement thing.

I can take this politcal topic into so many off topic, but yet still related topics. And go crazy with it.

Last edited by 07Negative; 07-07-2010 at 12:13 AM.
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Old 07-07-2010, 03:16 AM
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"Fear" = "Don't want to stand up for myself."

"If you don't stand for something, you'll stand for anything." I don't recall who said it, but I see it every damned day.

@07Negative - I've read all but about four books I own. Considering my wife and I could probably open a branch of the City library in our house, and I'm also checking books out from the library, I figure that's going some. The only books I haven't read through are references - The Oxford English Dictionary, Roget's Thesaurus, Bartlett's Popular Quotations, and the like. They show signs of serious thumbing over the years, tho.

Julius Henry "Groucho" Marx never finished primary school. He considered it his one failing. He was highly intelligent - and a voracious reader. Largely autodidactic, Marx read books that most college students of the time had only heard about.

Erich von Daniken is largely autodidactic as well - although I believe he finished high school.

I am primarily autodidactic - I got several years ahead of the system in primary school and stayed there. I've been to college twice (didn't graduate either time - had decent reasons for not doing so...) but I am also a voracious reader of fact and fiction. Read maps? Hell, I'm better considered an amateur cartographer. I'm at least semi-skilled in a number of labour trades. I've instructed various skills - that I learned the hard way myself! And now, with my memory trouble, I can no longer really learn in a classroom environment to someone else's timetable. Ergo, I set my own pace, beat facts, figures, and equations through my own skull, and have compiled (and written!) a number of reference works that I use fairly regularly. One need not go to school to be learned - I think I've proven that.

But, I digress.

Why is the media the way it is? Think of the publisher's/network exec's dictum - "Sh** Sells." No-one ever got good ratings by announcing the good things that have happened in the world that day. Moreover, as people become overexposed to the bad, the media has to get worse in order to punch through to people! Think about the devolution in the news - or in "entertainment" - merely in the last ten years. For those of you who are old enough to do so, extend that to the last thirty or forty.

Sociology - I think the "sociological ideal" would make for an interesting debate. Would someone please start it? I might be a bit slow in the beginning - my last SOC course was in 1985...

Unions. I'm fourth-generation Union, and I don't get them either. They had their time of significant usefulness (read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle if you want to see the conditions that brought about trade unions.) But, they've gotten entirely too greedy to be useful anymore. I've been involved in contract negotiations - Hell, I walked my first picket line when I was three years old! The difference? I was never greedy when negotiating a contract. I didn't try to get us an exhorbitant amount of money. What I tried to do instead was to empower the workers (us) to make sure we had good conditions, and get the company to make one useful concession to us - just to keep the precedent set. That's it.

Many trade unions are represented in my family - United Steel Workers, Teamsters, International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, Pipefitters & Steamfitters, Carpenter's Union, United Automotive Workers, and the like. So yeah, I can see how unions have been getting greedy - and that's what's moved so much of US production and manufacturing capability offshore - they don't have unions in the Western Pacific Rim, in Eastern Europe, South America, Central America, or (probably) Canada. So, labour costs are lower there - and we're suffering for it (the dollar is worth less, because tradesmen kept demanding more of them for an hour's work. If they'd not done so, we'd still have a powerful dollar...)

Politics? I'm registered NPA - the party I most identify with is the Libertarians (but I'm probably too hardcore Libertarian for even their liking. The purpose of government is to protect the body politic against threats from without, and the body politic should not require protection from the government. When it does, government has gotten too big. The powers of government must be limited, and subservient to, the rights of the individual. The only acts that should be illegal should be those that are malum in se.)

I'm not going to hide who I am and what I think - I never have, and I don't really know how to. I don't care if you might not "accept" it - that's not my problem. Perhaps I will jar you into having an independent thought - God save the Republic! - and then my mission will have been done. Time to move on and make someone else think for themselves.

If you disagree with me, I'll probably ask you why. I want to know what you're thinking. If you agree with me, I'll probably ask you why. How'd you come to that conclusion? In either case, remember that "just because" hasn't worked on me as a reason since I was six years old...
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Old 07-07-2010, 04:19 AM
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you know what i love about politics threads? the posts just keep getting longer, and longer, and longer....
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Old 07-07-2010, 05:06 AM
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they say change arises from a need. i wonder what people consider a need.
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Old 07-07-2010, 07:25 AM
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Not to rain on your parade, but this thread will eventually get closed due to the conflict that always erupts from a political conversation. Plus it is against forum rules.

Read #2

https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f9/rules-off-topic-18900/
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Old 07-07-2010, 12:30 PM
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Rules. There's always rules. I guess typing isn't quite freedom of speech is it?
Oh well. Moderator, Shut em down! Did North Korea make that rule?
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Old 07-07-2010, 01:06 PM
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I dont, **** that ****...

Originally Posted by XJs-R-us View Post
Hes just like everyone other politician...dont care who it is...Saying only what the people want to hear, to give them some sort of hope of better things, and get into office.... but its always bull****....

I dont vote.
I dont care.
F*** POLITICS!
I do my own thing, whether its allowed or not.
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Old 07-07-2010, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 5-90 View Post
"Fear" = "Don't want to stand up for myself."



Unions. I'm fourth-generation Union, and I don't get them either. They had their time of significant usefulness (read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle if you want to see the conditions that brought about trade unions.) But, they've gotten entirely too greedy to be useful anymore. I've been involved in contract negotiations - Hell, I walked my first picket line when I was three years old! The difference? I was never greedy when negotiating a contract. I didn't try to get us an exhorbitant amount of money. What I tried to do instead was to empower the workers (us) to make sure we had good conditions, and get the company to make one useful concession to us - just to keep the precedent set. That's it.

Many trade unions are represented in my family - United Steel Workers, Teamsters, International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, Pipefitters & Steamfitters, Carpenter's Union, United Automotive Workers, and the like. So yeah, I can see how unions have been getting greedy - and that's what's moved so much of US production and manufacturing capability offshore - they don't have unions in the Western Pacific Rim, in Eastern Europe, South America, Central America, or (probably) Canada. So, labour costs are lower there - and we're suffering for it (the dollar is worth less, because tradesmen kept demanding more of them for an hour's work. If they'd not done so, we'd still have a powerful dollar...)
I remember in my troubled teen aged years. I wanted to be an electrician and work in a Union. I had a good taste in my mouth from a neighbor guy in the Union as a Electrician. I listened to him talk and it made sense (for a 13year old) and watched him build his Nova. When apprenticing, I got electrocuted and that was the end of that dream. Became a painter. That Union was full of candy @$$ whiners. My point is. I think b/c of greed of Unions is why every thing got sent off shore. That's a damn shame too. B/c now those whiners are working at 10 Minute Oil change places and the such. Still complaining. Again, entitlement. If they had the forethought to think about what the greed would lead too. Perhaps our bridges wouldn't be imported Chinese steel (the bay bridge that is being built in the bay area is being constructed of steel from China). And not just bridges but everything. I remember the bottom of my hotwheels cars saying made in U.S.A.
I do believe in working conditions. Good ones. Granted someone came up with a idea. But they can't construct everything. Therefore they hire talented workers. There should be a respect thing for that work/labor/life. To rape and pillage everything you can out of any one human is b.s.
Which spins off into a new thought (A.D.D maybe?). With our current economical times. I'm finding businesses are not giving the same quality as when money was plentiful and everyone was smiling and skipping. I know you have to cut corners, but I don't think you should necessarily do it on your customers. I've been witnessing this with my 2 employers. Same prices for products but skimping on things. If I'm around to catch it I don't let it happen. But I can't catch everything. People being even slightly duked of their money and its value really pisses me off. Not much pisses me off either.
My first degree was in business econ. Me and my professors didn't see eye to eye so well.
I like the saying, "pass the buck around."
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Old 07-07-2010, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Tural View Post
they say change arises from a need. i wonder what people consider a need.
I was thinking a related question last night. "What do people value in their lives?"
When do the wants ever come second or third in priority? Where "Needs" always come first and are taking care of in such fashion.
I guess people will consider a need until beatin to the point of fed up. Then the irrational behavior takes over. Like going postal or suicide. People will continue to adjust their lives around their limits. Become complacent with their misfortunes and follow as someone leads. They work around the "System" whereas the "System" should have a common interest with it's people.
I don't understand how the common man got taken out of government. If it weren't for such high living expenses. I'd love to be more involved in local government. About the only thing I can do is work through churches, though I'm not a religious individual. But local churches do allow me to help service people that want to be serviced. I clean up about a 1 square mile of my neighborhood b/c the people have a poor mentality and the Waste Management employees that pick up trash on trash day. Don't take a few seconds to pick up what they let spill out.
I've started a Urban garden, recycling, and worm composting in my backyard. Using that as a test bed to promote my abilities to take over the vacant lot across the street from my house. Which use to be a drug ridden apartment complex. In hopes to have an out reach program to the kids on the street in East Oakland.
Needs are of self assessment. Just like values or morals. Can we apply needs of our own to another man? You certainly can't with values.

Last edited by 07Negative; 07-07-2010 at 01:48 PM.
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