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CCW using deadly force to defend yourself? and the repercusions

CCW using deadly force to defend yourself? and the repercusions

Old 11-02-2012, 05:05 PM
  #31  
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in tn you can only use deadly force with carry permit if you 100% feel your life is threatened and your responsible for everything around you and if force used you should expect to have to completely justify your actions and i carry everyday in case that what if situation happens and damn straight im going to pull the trigger if i feel my life is in jeapordy
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Old 11-02-2012, 05:07 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by bullettooth2008 View Post
Well in this country I can't legally have a gun.
So to defend myself would be myself, bat, cs spray (alledgedly) (also not legal) 2 rotweillers, Rifle (not legal one) (Alledgedly) my 6 ft 6" me, and if all else failed- The Girlfriend, just hope it's the right time of the month I get burgled
Forgot to say- Whatever necessary force needed
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Old 11-02-2012, 05:07 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by 77olds View Post
This is wrong, by LAW you are supposed to immediately inform the officer that you are lawfully carrying. I suppose maybe the law is different wherever you live, but here in Michigan, you have to tell them up front.

In fact, if they run your license, they WILL see that you are licensed to carry concealed and will return to your vehicle with their gun drawn on you.
Not required in every state. As I said, in va its not required. So make sure before you tell somebody what is and is not law that you know for sure what their state law is.


Originally Posted by zkeifer View Post
Now in reference to the original topic what about the castle doctrine? I know some states versions are different but my understanding of it that if you have to defend yourself in a lethal manner your protected under this law as long as its under the right criteria (different states have different versions)
Yeah certain states have great great castle doctrine. Texas for.example allowed a neighbor who was asked to watch the house.next door while the home owner was on vacation to shoot a robber. The judge extended castle.doctrine to the property he was watching ad well. Each state is a little different so make sure to read up on it. VA looks at each shooting as an individual so we.don't.exactly.have castle doctrine. But we aren't required to retreat if we didn't escalate the situation amongst other concerns.
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Old 11-02-2012, 06:51 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by bullettooth2008
The Girlfriend, just hope it's the right time of the month I get burgled
Hahahahahaha
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by zkeifer View Post
Now in reference to the original topic what about the castle doctrine? I know some states versions are different but my understanding of it that if you have to defend yourself in a lethal manner your protected under this law as long as its under the right criteria (different states have different versions)
that can go two ways - you are either subject to the "Castle Doctrine," or you're not.

States that uphold the "Castle Doctrine" believe (under law) that "a man's home is his castle," and he therefore has no duty to retreat before a threat when such option is available to him. This is relatively common in the soutwest (except CA,) middle north, midwest, and south.

States that do not uphold the Castle Doctrine believe (under law) that if you have the opportunity to retreat before a threat, you have a duty to retreat. Yes, that means if you are attacked in your home and can escape, you are required to attempt escape rather than fight back. Find this attitude in CA and New England.

The Castle Doctrine idea has been gaining ground under popular pressure - and there are exceptions to non-Castle Doctrine states (for instance, my wife and I are both at least marginally disabled. An "opportunity to retreat" doesn't really exist, because running isn't going to happen. This changes the rules - we don't have to try to run, and we may defend our home and persons - even here in CA, under CA law. If I were to try to flee, and she were to get killed, I would be tried for "murder by depraved indifference" - we can't retreat, which entitles us to fight back.

(This was more prevalent when her mother was still alive and living with us - she couldn't do a 40-yard dash if you gave her a week to finish!)

This being CA, I still require a great deal of justification for direct lethal force - oddly, I'd get in less trouble for braining an invader with my 80-year-old cast iron skillet than I would for shooting him - but this state also makes carrying a knife with a blade over four inches long in my pocket a felony, while dropping my M1991A1 in my pocket and going out the front door is a misdemeanour.

I never said Sacramento made any damned sense...
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Old 11-03-2012, 07:08 AM
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5-90 I need to get my friend in contact with you. He just got his carry permit in Sacramento. Id love for you to do some training with him. Do you have a company you do it through/with?
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Red82 View Post
5-90 I need to get my friend in contact with you. He just got his carry permit in Sacramento. Id love for you to do some training with him. Do you have a company you do it through/with?
Not anymore - it was getting to be problematic.

What sort of training do they want?
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:34 PM
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Learning to draw, moving off the x, reloading, malfunction drills etc etc. He doesn't really haveuch trainingother than some.basic stuff.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Red82
Learning to draw, moving off the x, reloading, malfunction drills etc etc. He doesn't really haveuch trainingother than some.basic stuff.
can teach yourself at an outdoor range and sign up for some classes
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:30 PM
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Teaching yourself is never the same as having instruction from a professional. Teaching yourself only gets you so far.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 5-90 View Post
that can go two ways - you are either subject to the "Castle Doctrine," or you're not.

States that uphold the "Castle Doctrine" believe (under law) that "a man's home is his castle," and he therefore has no duty to retreat before a threat when such option is available to him. This is relatively common in the soutwest (except CA,) middle north, midwest, and south.

States that do not uphold the Castle Doctrine believe (under law) that if you have the opportunity to retreat before a threat, you have a duty to retreat. Yes, that means if you are attacked in your home and can escape, you are required to attempt escape rather than fight back. Find this attitude in CA and New England.

The Castle Doctrine idea has been gaining ground under popular pressure - and there are exceptions to non-Castle Doctrine states (for instance, my wife and I are both at least marginally disabled. An "opportunity to retreat" doesn't really exist, because running isn't going to happen. This changes the rules - we don't have to try to run, and we may defend our home and persons - even here in CA, under CA law. If I were to try to flee, and she were to get killed, I would be tried for "murder by depraved indifference" - we can't retreat, which entitles us to fight back.

(This was more prevalent when her mother was still alive and living with us - she couldn't do a 40-yard dash if you gave her a week to finish!)

This being CA, I still require a great deal of justification for direct lethal force - oddly, I'd get in less trouble for braining an invader with my 80-year-old cast iron skillet than I would for shooting him - but this state also makes carrying a knife with a blade over four inches long in my pocket a felony, while dropping my M1991A1 in my pocket and going out the front door is a misdemeanour.

I never said Sacramento made any damned sense...
This isn't entirelly the case. While California doesn't have an actual castle doctrine/stand your ground law there are laws that still protect us.


http://www.gunlaw.com/index.php?opti...=81&Itemid=100

CA PC 198.5:

198.5. Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or
great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to
have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great
bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that
force is used against another person, not a member of the family or
household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and
forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or
had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.
As used in this section, great bodily injury means a significant
or substantial physical injury.


Also according to the Judicial Council of California's Criminal Jury Instructions (CALCRIM 2011) dated October 29, 2010:

[A defendant is not required to retreat. He or she is entitled to stand his or her ground and defend himself or herself and, if reasonably necessary, to pursue an assailant until the danger of (death/great bodily injury/ <insert forcible and atrocious crime>) has passed. This is so even if safety could have been achieved by retreating.]
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by sthon View Post
This isn't entirelly the case. While California doesn't have an actual castle doctrine/stand your ground law there are laws that still protect us.


http://www.gunlaw.com/index.php?opti...=81&Itemid=100

CA PC 198.5:

198.5. Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or
great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to
have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great
bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that
force is used against another person, not a member of the family or
household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and
forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or
had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.
As used in this section, great bodily injury means a significant
or substantial physical injury.


Also according to the Judicial Council of California's Criminal Jury Instructions (CALCRIM 2011) dated October 29, 2010:

[A defendant is not required to retreat. He or she is entitled to stand his or her ground and defend himself or herself and, if reasonably necessary, to pursue an assailant until the danger of (death/great bodily injury/ <insert forcible and atrocious crime>) has passed. This is so even if safety could have been achieved by retreating.]
2010 - when was that decided? I'd gotten my "force continuum" education in CA about 20 years ago, and I honestly haven't kept up (simply assume things to be pessimistic, and focus on tactics & training. I've had two "home invasions" since I got here 22 years ago - and, for a big guy, I can move quietly. 300# hitting you at 0200 knocks the fight right out of you, you know? 300# landing on you pretty much takes care of the whole matter.)
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:44 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by COSXJFAN View Post
I disagree completely!! You DO NOT say a thing about it, unless asked! Why would you want to call attention to the weapon, when it may not even come up at all, especially in a simple traffic stop. It will be a far less stressful situation, if it never even comes up....but if asked, it is your responsibility to let them know as a responsible gun owner....or if asked to exit the vehicle...otherwise, I keep my damned mouth shut! I answer the questions they ask directly, honestly, and accurately....some LEOs get nervous around CCW carriers, and they will give you a hard time just cause...it happens all the time!

Also, please don't be the guy with a giant gun sticker on your vehicle....and wonder why you are getting hassled every time you get pulled over....hhmmmm, I wonder why??!! LOL!! I don't even put NRA stickers on my vehicles.... it's no body's business but mine where I stand on my 2nd amendment rights, what kind of guns I like, and so on...
here in NC you are required by law to tell the officer about any firearm as soon as he gets to the window of your vehicle
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:00 AM
  #44  
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Didn't read through all the posts but the common saying on my firearms forums is: "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6".

FWIW: Here in PA there is no requirement to notify a LEO on a traffic stop that you are armed.

We also receive a LTCF - License To Carry a Firearm. This allows you to concealed carry or open carry, or carry inside a vehicle, gun free school zone, etc., in the Commonwealth. Open Carry is LEGAL in the Commonwealth without a LTCF as long as you are not in the county of Philadelphia (A City of the First Class).
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