new rear speakers don't sound good
02-05-2016, 06:49 PM
#16
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Forgot to answer the actual post -
The sound bar Sucks. Thats it. It is pointed the wrong way for the driver, and its mounted over the interior fabric, making it dampen itself. This design was just that, a design. Your Door speakers are right there, thats why they sound fine.
In the doors, the depth matters, I have not come by a 6.5 that doesnt fit in the soundbar in the back. You have to match your quality when it comes to speakers. You need as good in all locations, and they have to have the same impedance or one will be really loud and the other soft.
Factory decks have more than enough power for anything you want to attach (yes, 15Watts is more than ample for a cheap speaker, most TVs are 1Watt speakers), Decks have power, not speakers. RMS is not what people seem to think it is, it measures the size of a resistor, and has nothing to do with sound.
The sound bar Sucks. Thats it. It is pointed the wrong way for the driver, and its mounted over the interior fabric, making it dampen itself. This design was just that, a design. Your Door speakers are right there, thats why they sound fine.
In the doors, the depth matters, I have not come by a 6.5 that doesnt fit in the soundbar in the back. You have to match your quality when it comes to speakers. You need as good in all locations, and they have to have the same impedance or one will be really loud and the other soft.
Factory decks have more than enough power for anything you want to attach (yes, 15Watts is more than ample for a cheap speaker, most TVs are 1Watt speakers), Decks have power, not speakers. RMS is not what people seem to think it is, it measures the size of a resistor, and has nothing to do with sound.
02-05-2016, 06:57 PM
#17
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Thats a lot of work for a discount system. You cannot compare speakers this way.
There is nothing wrong with factory speaker wire, its in fact, nicer than most home theatre wire. (its 16 gauge solid core copper, TRY to find that for a home).
If you are not spending hundreds on speakers, you will not make a kia a ferrari by building baffles. You get what you pay for. In the thousands of installs I have done, car audio goes 2 ways - Cheap or Correct.
Everyone wants the most for the least, and that is what you get, the least. Your speakers are cheap, thats why they only sound Okay. vs a factory speaker, its night and day, since factory equipment is garbage.
You are litterally sitting here having arguments about how Burger King is the greatest hamburger ever, and yall are chiming in that Wendys or McDonalds does. You are arguing about the quality of sub standard stuff.
You dont need amps, you dont need fill, you dont need baffles. Its a 50 dollar a pair speaker, the CHEAPEST on the market. you want it to sound good? BUY GOOD SPEAKERS.
There is nothing wrong with factory speaker wire, its in fact, nicer than most home theatre wire. (its 16 gauge solid core copper, TRY to find that for a home).
If you are not spending hundreds on speakers, you will not make a kia a ferrari by building baffles. You get what you pay for. In the thousands of installs I have done, car audio goes 2 ways - Cheap or Correct.
Everyone wants the most for the least, and that is what you get, the least. Your speakers are cheap, thats why they only sound Okay. vs a factory speaker, its night and day, since factory equipment is garbage.
You are litterally sitting here having arguments about how Burger King is the greatest hamburger ever, and yall are chiming in that Wendys or McDonalds does. You are arguing about the quality of sub standard stuff.
You dont need amps, you dont need fill, you dont need baffles. Its a 50 dollar a pair speaker, the CHEAPEST on the market. you want it to sound good? BUY GOOD SPEAKERS.
and FWIW I used to be a dj--working in 3 different night clubs in NYC metro area--also worked at an estate that had over 100k invested in audio equipment simply for family parties--so I do know good audio equipment makes a difference.
Last edited by mikesignal; 02-05-2016 at 08:22 PM.
02-05-2016, 08:38 PM
#19
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Thread Starter
Forgot to answer the actual post -
The sound bar Sucks. Thats it. It is pointed the wrong way for the driver, and its mounted over the interior fabric, making it dampen itself. This design was just that, a design. Your Door speakers are right there, thats why they sound fine.
In the doors, the depth matters, I have not come by a 6.5 that doesnt fit in the soundbar in the back. You have to match your quality when it comes to speakers. You need as good in all locations, and they have to have the same impedance or one will be really loud and the other soft.
Factory decks have more than enough power for anything you want to attach (yes, 15Watts is more than ample for a cheap speaker, most TVs are 1Watt speakers), Decks have power, not speakers. RMS is not what people seem to think it is, it measures the size of a resistor, and has nothing to do with sound.
The sound bar Sucks. Thats it. It is pointed the wrong way for the driver, and its mounted over the interior fabric, making it dampen itself. This design was just that, a design. Your Door speakers are right there, thats why they sound fine.
In the doors, the depth matters, I have not come by a 6.5 that doesnt fit in the soundbar in the back. You have to match your quality when it comes to speakers. You need as good in all locations, and they have to have the same impedance or one will be really loud and the other soft.
Factory decks have more than enough power for anything you want to attach (yes, 15Watts is more than ample for a cheap speaker, most TVs are 1Watt speakers), Decks have power, not speakers. RMS is not what people seem to think it is, it measures the size of a resistor, and has nothing to do with sound.
02-06-2016, 04:09 AM
#20
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new rear speakers don't sound good
Yeah LOL, that stuck out to me as well. Thousands of stereo installs?
He may have just worded it wrong. Root mean square was originally intended to measure the power dissipated by a resistive element... in this case, a speaker.
He may have just worded it wrong. Root mean square was originally intended to measure the power dissipated by a resistive element... in this case, a speaker.
Last edited by Jimbo Slice; 02-06-2016 at 04:30 AM.
02-06-2016, 08:45 AM
#21
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I don't know too much about car audio, or really what goes into a stereo head unit......what i do know about communications (2 way, am band) is that the output power in a radio is produced from a transistor. Years and years ago it was done by using tubes.....I'm pretty sure nothing has changed in the word of radio.........so the output of a car stereo, or home stereo, portable radio, is being powered by a transistor.
and Jimbo is right, the speaker is dissipating the output power of those transistors.
and if you don't think an amp will make any speaker sound better, you are wrong. Car stereo head units produce 1% THD--so do car stereo amps( after research some amps are as clean as .05%). If you have a head unit rated for 20 watts, at full power you will hear distortion. Put a 50 watt per channel amp in there, properly tune the amp (that is key) and you will hear the difference in clarity. Now it will not make a $50 dollar speaker sound like a $200 speaker, but I will improve the sound. Remember ,the speaker is dissipating the power. The amp has to work far less to produce the same amount of power (or more) than a head unit, therefore producing less distortion. It's not about matching speakers together, it's really about tuning the proper size amp to get the correct output to make the speaker happy. Really getting the most out of your speaker, whatever the cost of the speaker. .....and speakers are usually blown due to distortion created at the supply (amp or head unit transistor), not from power alone.
and since I am using the factory head unit, buying a more expensive speaker is going to get me no where. and no, I don't want a new head unit. I like the look of keeping it OEM.I don't know what the power rating or the THD is on the factory unit, I'm thinking THD is more than 1%;at full power it sounds like crap....so an amp will be next for me
and Jimbo is right, the speaker is dissipating the output power of those transistors.
and if you don't think an amp will make any speaker sound better, you are wrong. Car stereo head units produce 1% THD--so do car stereo amps( after research some amps are as clean as .05%). If you have a head unit rated for 20 watts, at full power you will hear distortion. Put a 50 watt per channel amp in there, properly tune the amp (that is key) and you will hear the difference in clarity. Now it will not make a $50 dollar speaker sound like a $200 speaker, but I will improve the sound. Remember ,the speaker is dissipating the power. The amp has to work far less to produce the same amount of power (or more) than a head unit, therefore producing less distortion. It's not about matching speakers together, it's really about tuning the proper size amp to get the correct output to make the speaker happy. Really getting the most out of your speaker, whatever the cost of the speaker. .....and speakers are usually blown due to distortion created at the supply (amp or head unit transistor), not from power alone.
and since I am using the factory head unit, buying a more expensive speaker is going to get me no where. and no, I don't want a new head unit. I like the look of keeping it OEM.I don't know what the power rating or the THD is on the factory unit, I'm thinking THD is more than 1%;at full power it sounds like crap....so an amp will be next for me
Last edited by mikesignal; 02-07-2016 at 08:04 PM.
02-17-2016, 06:34 PM
#22
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ok.so for anyone who cares, I got a set of better speakers for the rear. They are Pioneer TS-D1602R. I hooked them up and they sounded better then the previous pioneer 6.5's which were TS-A1675r, but still not as good as the fronts (pioneer TS-A1575). So I got a bag of poly-fil from Walmart. It was a 16oz bag for around $4. I removed one rear speaker and stuffed the space inside the speaker hole with the poly-fil. I tried to stuff it so it was wedged between the roof and the headliner sealing off the space as best I could. I re-installed the speaker and listened to the speakers one at a time. The poly-fil side sounded better, a little more bass. So I used the rest of the bag for the other side. The sound is much improved with the poly-fil. It is still not as good as the fronts, but better. They do make speaker baffles, and I have read good and bad reviews on them. I might try a set of those at some point in the future.
Another thought is the speakers are mounted to the headliner-hence the speaker cabinet is the headliner--imagine buying a set of speakers for your home and the speaker cabinet is made of the same material as an XJ headliner. Probably not going to sound very good. So the OEM mount in the headliner is basically sucking the life out of the speakers. Sure a sub is going to make it sound better, but imagine if you could build a speaker cabinet incorporating it with the headliner. It won't sound as good as having a sub, but it would put some life into the rear speakers.
I also noticed (before I used the poly-fil) that the entire headliner in the rear was vibrating with the speaker, That has to have a negative affect on the sound.
Another thought is the speakers are mounted to the headliner-hence the speaker cabinet is the headliner--imagine buying a set of speakers for your home and the speaker cabinet is made of the same material as an XJ headliner. Probably not going to sound very good. So the OEM mount in the headliner is basically sucking the life out of the speakers. Sure a sub is going to make it sound better, but imagine if you could build a speaker cabinet incorporating it with the headliner. It won't sound as good as having a sub, but it would put some life into the rear speakers.
I also noticed (before I used the poly-fil) that the entire headliner in the rear was vibrating with the speaker, That has to have a negative affect on the sound.
Last edited by mikesignal; 02-17-2016 at 07:33 PM.
02-17-2016, 08:30 PM
#23
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I post between Kid moments, Im a stay at home dad now. I havent worked professionally since I was in my 20s, and I am far from that now.
Its usually all about brand unless you spend hundreds on speakers. decent built brands are fine, others...
There are 2 headliner types on XJs, some have the bars as a separate plastic piece, and some its all part of one headliner. Either way, its in no way optimal, especially if you want to hear it from the front. As for power, a 50 watt channel is fine for just about every speaker out there.
You dont want to "keep it OEM", thats just silly. You just dont want something that looks like its from a space ship lighting up the entire room. They are out there, look around.
The head units on most factory cars are not too bad, usually just low power. You are going to have more problems trying to get a factory head to talk to an amp, since it outputs sound not line level audio.
Its usually all about brand unless you spend hundreds on speakers. decent built brands are fine, others...
There are 2 headliner types on XJs, some have the bars as a separate plastic piece, and some its all part of one headliner. Either way, its in no way optimal, especially if you want to hear it from the front. As for power, a 50 watt channel is fine for just about every speaker out there.
You dont want to "keep it OEM", thats just silly. You just dont want something that looks like its from a space ship lighting up the entire room. They are out there, look around.
The head units on most factory cars are not too bad, usually just low power. You are going to have more problems trying to get a factory head to talk to an amp, since it outputs sound not line level audio.
02-18-2016, 05:11 PM
#25
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That is silly. At least you know it. - lol
I moved on from Car and home audio to pro and home automation. Its fun to wire both the stage and the green room of a club. Car audio was always the place for the kids and as you grew up you went to home, to automation, then to Pro. We used to call most car audio customers the "discounters" because it was always price, never quality.
I moved on from Car and home audio to pro and home automation. Its fun to wire both the stage and the green room of a club. Car audio was always the place for the kids and as you grew up you went to home, to automation, then to Pro. We used to call most car audio customers the "discounters" because it was always price, never quality.
02-18-2016, 05:32 PM
#26
Beach Bum
I would pull the stock radio just to make sure it does not have preamp output.
Somewhere I saw aftermarket head units that maintained the stock appearance, some included factory logos.
Somewhere I saw aftermarket head units that maintained the stock appearance, some included factory logos.
02-18-2016, 07:14 PM
#27
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adding an amp will clean up the crappy head units distortion at higher volume--and it is not silly to add the amp if a person wants to keep the stock radio--it will make the OEM radio sound better--I'm not the only person to ever do this.
you lack knowledge...period. not trying to offend you but you should not be giving advice. Nothing you said on here makes sense. One minute you've done thousands of car audio installations, the next minute you are a stay at home dad, now you say you are a pro installer wiring green rooms in a club. All I'm trying to do is make the OEM set up in an XJ sound better, and get the rear speakers to sound as good as the fronts, which is difficult given the OEM speaker locations and the crappy sounding (at high volume) head unit. All you do is keep saying I'm doing it wrong, and I should do it your way and spend more money on better speakers and a new head unit. --sorry for the rant but I am sharing MY experience with other XJ owners so maybe they can benefit.
and FWIW I'm a grown man who is a signalman for a class 1 railroad. I've been working with electronics forever. (and definitely not an expert)
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Steve I'll have to look for them online, but for around $125 I can add a small 4 channel amp. I couldn't find any 1.5 din radio's online that were new. except maybe a marine radio. ....I don't think there is a pre-amp out but I'll check
as far as the rear speakers--without major modification they probably will never sound good no matter how much you spend on speakers and how much poly-fil is added in. At the $4 cost for the poly-fil it did give some improvement. I will try baffles at a later date,although I have my doubts they will improve much.
you lack knowledge...period. not trying to offend you but you should not be giving advice. Nothing you said on here makes sense. One minute you've done thousands of car audio installations, the next minute you are a stay at home dad, now you say you are a pro installer wiring green rooms in a club. All I'm trying to do is make the OEM set up in an XJ sound better, and get the rear speakers to sound as good as the fronts, which is difficult given the OEM speaker locations and the crappy sounding (at high volume) head unit. All you do is keep saying I'm doing it wrong, and I should do it your way and spend more money on better speakers and a new head unit. --sorry for the rant but I am sharing MY experience with other XJ owners so maybe they can benefit.
and FWIW I'm a grown man who is a signalman for a class 1 railroad. I've been working with electronics forever. (and definitely not an expert)
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Steve I'll have to look for them online, but for around $125 I can add a small 4 channel amp. I couldn't find any 1.5 din radio's online that were new. except maybe a marine radio. ....I don't think there is a pre-amp out but I'll check
as far as the rear speakers--without major modification they probably will never sound good no matter how much you spend on speakers and how much poly-fil is added in. At the $4 cost for the poly-fil it did give some improvement. I will try baffles at a later date,although I have my doubts they will improve much.
Last edited by mikesignal; 02-18-2016 at 08:34 PM.
02-18-2016, 07:36 PM
#28
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The factory does not have preouts, Mines on a shelf. Unless there are different ones.
Im 36. I did installs from about 19 to 26, then I retired and now live on wife support. Its nice. I did what work I sold and what work came my way in an era when idiots spent way too much on audio. Sometimes I loose track of what is far easier now than then, that's my real weakness. That and not enough coffee, never enough coffee.
Im 36. I did installs from about 19 to 26, then I retired and now live on wife support. Its nice. I did what work I sold and what work came my way in an era when idiots spent way too much on audio. Sometimes I loose track of what is far easier now than then, that's my real weakness. That and not enough coffee, never enough coffee.
02-18-2016, 07:41 PM
#29
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02-28-2016, 08:46 AM
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Interesting thread, I've found it helpful to me.
I've wondered about that roof sound bar, I run 5.25's in the back door, since they fit easy, and run a second set of grills over a hole, my theory to let more sound out.
I've thought the sound acceptable, but from past experience would have wanted 6x9 for more bass, but they don't fit easily.
Thanks for the feedback and mods on the sound bar. I've been tempted by the 6 1/2's but perhaps I'll hold out for the 6x9 and figure alternate install.
I'll probably stick with the door install and not persue the sound bar for my needs.
Currently for the rear bass, I run an amped 10", and if I need more woof in the back, I add the dog. I don't run a rear seat so lots of room available.
(Actually I never play the stereo with the dog in, too sensitive ears for the noise I make)
Thanks for following up on your thread with the results of the poly backfill and alternate speakers install.
I've wondered about that roof sound bar, I run 5.25's in the back door, since they fit easy, and run a second set of grills over a hole, my theory to let more sound out.
I've thought the sound acceptable, but from past experience would have wanted 6x9 for more bass, but they don't fit easily.
Thanks for the feedback and mods on the sound bar. I've been tempted by the 6 1/2's but perhaps I'll hold out for the 6x9 and figure alternate install.
I'll probably stick with the door install and not persue the sound bar for my needs.
Currently for the rear bass, I run an amped 10", and if I need more woof in the back, I add the dog. I don't run a rear seat so lots of room available.
(Actually I never play the stereo with the dog in, too sensitive ears for the noise I make)
Thanks for following up on your thread with the results of the poly backfill and alternate speakers install.
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