Oh absolutely! The more humid and condensed the intake air is the better they run. Especially Diesels! I can see a very noticeable difference on the fuel gauge and feel it at the throttle in conditions like this when driving my Dodge 3500 Cummins.

 

I've heard that foggy days always give a noticeable increase in performances from several accounts here locally in talking about the stuff I am doing in the garage.

I watched a 2~ hour HHO convention presentation where a guy found a clip of a car that blasted of the line at a race track and blew thick mists of water all over a camera way off behind it (it was the camera filming). It was at least 10 feet back. In order to get water condensed out of the exhaust like that in those kinds of amounts he had to have a bunch of water injection. It couldn't be HHO since the amount of gas necessary to condense down to that much in the exhaust would have to be so much no engine on the planet could handle it.

 

I think this image is pretty relevant.

 

Water Mist--Steam--Fog

I guess the difference is 'water size'.

Would a 'cold fog' machine work? They are 110v and about 800watts. Would need an inverter.
like this-- https://www.nixalite.com/product/cyc...yABEgIRlfD_BwE

Yes it needs electricity from the battery/alternator/inverter. Who cares how much as long as the MPG goes up. A net positive balance.

I even have a cheapo halloween fogger.

 

I think in this discussion we have all veered off track somehow. When hydrogen and oxygen gas burns with the fuel it also creates it's own steam as part of the process. So I don't think there would actually be any need or advantage to add more to the mix. There is a threshold where too much can reduce the efficiency of the burn. And the whole reason the concept works is because there is a fuller more complete burn of the primary fuel with the hydrogen added as a catalyst than there is without it. And adding too much more mist or steam could reduce this advantageous burn mixture.

 

I guess that is the balance. How much water/mist/fog. Start low and go slow. Probably really don't need much. Plus want the reservoir to last 1-2 tanks of fuel.

I think that instead of a constant supply of water/fog, which has the problem at idling and puddling, would be to only use for highway cruising to increase mpg.

During power operations, wheeling, hill climbing, etc, fuel economy is out the window.

Shut off the water during these times and only during cruising. That is the only time I am concerned with economy.

 

I think the problem is in this discussion we are mixing two totally different system concepts and I'm not sure they will work together and be efficient. One concept is introducing hydrogen/oxygen gas and the other is Water injection or water/Methanol injection. They are totally separate concepts that need to be addressed separately because I think one might defeat the other if used together.

 

Yeah I don't think CC is making a HHO device.
He's talking more about water as a 'fine mist' or better yet a 'fog'.
This is then ingested into the combustion chamber where it cools, vaporizes and turns to steam and expand as well as catalyze the burning of gas and slow the burning of gas and possibly even breaks down into hydrogen and burns. A lot going on all at the same time.

I want to see what is inside the bucket.

 

He is discussing both but the conversation started on another thread and then we moved it over here. But in his first comment here he is sharing HHO as he did on the first thread we started to discuss it. But then he added the water vapor system concept. Each has it's own merits and advantages as stand alone systems, but like I mentioned, one might defeat the full potential of the other if both are used together. So they really should be two totally different concepts to explore in detail.

But if you read from this one and follow the later discussions, It was focused on HHO to start with then moved to water injection. Hence my point and reply about combing the two.

https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f67/hy...3/#post3454339

 

So what did CC build?

-HHO Generator with high output to run the engine?
-HHO Generator with low output to 'supplement' the running of a gas engine
-Water 'Vapor' Generator to allow water to enter the combustion chamber and be turned into 'expanded volume' steam which acts as a mini 'steam engine'

So what is inside the black box?

MPG is not the real endpoint to measure. It really is cost/mile that we want to look at. We need to use the right measuring tool.

If I can run a lower octane gas and get lower, same, higher MPG, I don't really care. Now if my cost/mile went down, that is what I really want. $0.10/mile to $0.09/mile.

 

2-H20 + 'electricity' => 2-H2 + O2, then + 'burn H2 gas' => 2 H2O, then + 'gasoline generated heat => Steam H2O expands x1700 (steam engine), then + 'cooling' => Vapor H2O, then + 'more cooling' => Water H2O

If we follow this sequence which is what HHO Generator 'Brown Gas' does, What is really causing the 'increased mileage' that we all want?

-Hydrogen used as a 'primary or secondary fuel'?
-HHO Brown Gas used just as a 'carrier' to get 'end result water' into the combustion chamber?
-Hydrogen gas used as a 'catalyst' or enhancer for the burning of gasoline?
-Water into the combustion chamber turning into steam which is a 'secondary engine' to produce more power.

So if what we really want is just water H2O into the combustion chamber, why not just inject 'water vapor' which is H2O.
Vapor H20 + gasoline generated heat => steam H2O expands x1700 steam engine

So what is really happening? Many things actually.
So what if the 'simplest' explanation that the 'burining of hydrogen gas' is what increases mileage is really wrong. Many times the simple explanation might make logical/intuitive sense but is actually really wrong.
There is no simple answer to a complex question.

 

Absolutely. I shared this in my comments after that. The HHO is advantageous as a secondary "catalyst" for the primary fuel which causes a more complete and fuller burn of the primary fuel, but at the same time it also creates it's own steam which also adds to the energy of the burn.

So my thoughts are that to pre-introduce even more water vapor might be overkill and subdue the advantageous chemical mixture and burn already happening with the HHO and primary fuel. Just like a fuel mixture being to rich to give the best burn.

 

I agree gas + HHO + water 'vapor', the correct mixture would be difficult.

Or just use the water 'vapor' alone with no HHO. I think that is what CC is getting at and built in his box and pail.

 

Yep, That's what I was trying to share, one or the other would be an advantage but together it could be self defeating.

I went and did some research on the water/water methanol injection systems also day before yesterday and realized this possibility.

But something I found out is that on a stock system the water injection provides an extremely higher percentage of benefit for a Diesel than it does a Gasoline engine. It is similar with the HHO, but from what I understand the HHO provides a much closer comparison percentage with the gas as it does with the diesel.

 

Could be true, but it might be the complete opposite. If one increases power and performance, and the other does as well, why would combining them do the opposite? But we'll know in the coming months since I'll be doing it. I already know HHO works.

I'll be testing the steam stand alone setup alone to see how much better that works. I thoroughly expect it to exceed HHO after having thought about it long and hard for weeks.

HHO will turn back into water/steam, but the amount of steam you'll get from a misted/fogged setup will be WAY more than HHO. HHO is 1800 times the size of a water molecule. Steam is 1700x the size of said water. So it will implode to steam, or into water and then steam, or some weird amalgamation. No one will actually know until they get a cylinder they can observe this happening in in the midst of the process with a very high speed video camera. We may never know in our life time. Regardless, it condenses into a smaller amount of steam that will have probably no effect on cleaning, let alone piston expansion (because it goes in already expended and actually condenses to a smaller size, whereas misted water is as condensed as you can get and will expand a full 1700x).

A few drops of water in the form of a mist will expand to 85cc's of volume, and it's doing it by absorbing the wasted heat energy already produced. That's REAL free energy. The water uses the wasted heat you can't do anything with to push the piston, and I suspect that it will also offset the O2 readings in favor of gas mileage by making the surface more electrically conductive so that it reads a higher voltage (rich) and cuts fuel accordingly. There is no need to worry about burning up pistons because the water is cooling (and I think that's disinformation because in europe they run as high as 28:1 AFR's without cats, or at least they used to I have read).