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Fair labor hours.

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Old 01-12-2018, 05:09 PM   #16
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That's why they are called estimates. Could be more, could be less. You really can't be held to an estimate unless it's not an estimate, and just a plain price quote or bid type job. All you can be is fair.
Agreed... The problem with a written estimate is that in some states it can be argued in court as a binding contract. The uncertainty is always there and it absolutely MUST be worded in the contract as such.
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:11 PM   #17
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Back in the day, I did an LS swap on my 70 Camaro. Going to say this was back in 2002. Even with all my connections, having a free engine and doing all the work myself, it still cost me $5k. It would be the same if I did another one today.
Yep... Racing for "fun" turns into a very costly investment before it's over with.
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:51 PM   #18
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Hey Y'all!
I have an 01 Jeep Cherokee Classic, with stock 4.0 and transmission, 6.5 lift on 33's. I'm wanting to do a conversation LS swap to a rebuilt Lm7 5.3 Vortec.
I have everything bought,...
No offense intended but if I did the swap I wouldn't use your parts, sorry. That's like showing up at a five star restaurant with a piece of meat you brought in and saying "medium rare please".

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Old 01-12-2018, 06:12 PM   #19
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No offense intended but if I did the swap I wouldn't use your parts, sorry. That's like showing up at a five star restaurant with a piece of meat you brought in and saying "medium rare please".
You are absolutely right...I understand the loss of profit on parts. That in it's self is a slap in the face to a shop owner and going to be hard to pass through. But in no way would I agree to an estimate if I did agree to do the labor on this.

Sounds like he might be better off just doing it himself and learning at the same time. And if the old lady don't jump in and support and help with the project dump her and find one that will. lol

"This has to be done... You in or out?"
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:35 PM   #20
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No offense intended but if I did the swap I wouldn't use your parts, sorry. That's like showing up at a five star restaurant with a piece of meat you brought in and saying "medium rare please".
There's a really great seafood restaurant in one of the local marinas here that will do that with fish. You go out fishing, bring in your catch, clean it at the cleaning station outside the restaurant. Then they'll cook it any way you want (fried, broiled, grilled, done up in one of their recipes, etc.) with three sides of your choice. $5.

So I guess I'm saying I don't really understand the problem.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:49 PM   #21
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No offense intended but if I did the swap I wouldn't use your parts, sorry. That's like showing up at a five star restaurant with a piece of meat you brought in and saying "medium rare please".
That happens alot nowadays though. Bring the parts you want instead of the AutoZone specials you get when you don't bring parts. But shops now compensate for that by just raising their labor rates.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:52 PM   #22
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So I guess I'm saying I don't really understand the problem.
X2.....We do it all the time here haha.....but alot of guys bring in their own filters and oil and they are ****ty fram filters and cheapo oil. Their loss.
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:12 PM   #23
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Yep, we turn peoples parts down a lot. Very common in this industry.
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:22 PM   #24
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There's a really great seafood restaurant in one of the local marinas here that will do that with fish. You go out fishing, bring in your catch, clean it at the cleaning station outside the restaurant. Then they'll cook it any way you want (fried, broiled, grilled, done up in one of their recipes, etc.) with three sides of your choice. $5.

So I guess I'm saying I don't really understand the problem.
Well, I guess that's all good until the fish ain't biting anymore or new regulations prevent it. Won't be long... Enjoy it while you can.
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:41 PM   #25
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Yep, we turn peoples parts down a lot. Very common in this industry.
I guess in this situation with heavily customized parts I agree haha...but with minor stuff like we do in comparison I don't see an issue
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:20 PM   #26
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I guess in this situation with heavily customized parts I agree haha...but with minor stuff like we do in comparison I don't see an issue
Its a liability issue for us. Say a customer brings us in brand X throttle cable because he read that its the best. We tell him, no we have used brand X before and they have issues. Customer say I dont care, install it. Well we install it, customer takes his vehicle down the street, throttle sticks wide open, crashes into a wall and since we installed the part, its our fault.

We actually had an issue just like that with a certain brand throttle body. Luckily every time the throttle stuck (multiple cars, multiple times), the car was on the dyno and couldnt go anywhere.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:22 PM   #27
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No offense intended but if I did the swap I wouldn't use your parts, sorry. That's like showing up at a five star restaurant with a piece of meat you brought in and saying "medium rare please".
The engine I bought was rebuilt from the block up by a friend of mine, who builds engines for a living. Bored .020 over, pro flat top hypertutectic pistons, movie polished cam shaft,.... lots of goodies, pushing 425 rhp by itself.... in other words, I'm completely confident in the engine, and as a paying customer, it my choice what I put under that hood, and not one of the used engines the swap shop has on the shelf, that they "swear" is a good engine. So no offense intended back, but that why it's gonna be my engine!
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:57 PM   #28
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The engine I bought was rebuilt from the block up by a friend of mine, who builds engines for a living. Bored .020 over, pro flat top hypertutectic pistons, movie polished cam shaft,....
That's all cool, I get it...but...you aren't expecting any type of a warranty are you?

If so who pays for what? where? how much? Maybe this explains my point more precisely. How many lawyers do you plan to have on retainer for this endeavor? Can you deal them on an hourly rate?
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:41 PM   #29
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That's all cool, I get it...but...you aren't expecting any type of a warranty are you?

If so who pays for what? where? how much? Maybe this explains my point more precisely. How many lawyers do you plan to have on retainer for this endeavor? Can you deal them on an hourly rate?
On the engine, of course not,... on the work the mechanic does on the install, absolutely! Im smart enough to know that the engine has no responsibility ties to the install. If theres something wrong internally with the engine, then thats on ny buddy, but if the wire harness was not done correctly, then thats on the install! Look, I was just wanting a ball park idea of labor time, so I kinda no what to expect, I have no problem paying a FAIR price on the labor, what ever the typical length of labor time that is. I can't imagine I'm the first Cherokee to have a 5.3 dropped in it, and putting one in mine should be no different than any other 01 Cherokee. I also understand, that a shop can take a customer who's not terribly knowledgeable, and tell him what an extensive job it is, claiming they need it for 4 weeks. Then, jerk out the old engine and stuff in one day, put the new one in in three days, and are doing final tuning by day 5 and 6, having the whole thing done in 50 hours... THEN park it out back and throw a tarp on it and call you three weeks latter and say they just finished up putting in 150 hours on it, charging you for that, and you as the customer are no wiser to the screwing they just done on you. I thought for sure that quite a few Cherokees have had 5.3 conversions done already, and a general labor time has been established.... give maybe 3 to 5 hours extra for any unusual problems.... but apparently it's a big mystery with all sorts of unknowns, leaving it to simply hoping the mechanic shop is "fair and honest"!
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:14 PM   #30
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I thought for sure that quite a few Cherokees have had 5.3 conversions done already
I think the collective conclusion is it's not worth it. Best of luck to you.
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