Antisieze??
06-30-2011, 08:22 PM
#4
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Year: 1989
Model: Cherokee
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Uhh there is more than one kind of Permatex Antiseize even. But just the good ole regular stuff works just fine for me.
06-30-2011, 10:13 PM
#6
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Year: 1995
Model: Grand Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 with all of the noise and clatter
There is the standard silver and then there is the high temp copper, I use the silver on almost everything that requires anti-seize and the copper for exhaust manifold bolts.
06-30-2011, 10:49 PM
#7
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Year: 1989
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The standard stuff is damn near impossible to get splashed off in mud or water. (Harder than hell to get off with soap and water) I use it on lug studs and a few of my trucks that have been sitting for years still have the crap on them and still as slick as the day it was put on.
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06-30-2011, 11:18 PM
#8
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06-30-2011, 11:48 PM
#9
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Year: 1988
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Engine: AMC242
The silver stuff (nickel-based) is good for most applications.
The "gold" stuff (copper-based) is rated for higher temperatures, I'll typically use it for exhaust.
Permatex is not the only maker of never-seez - they're just the most available. It's not bad, but I also shop at MRO houses, so I have more of a selection available to me...
Nota Bene: The standard for installation preload is for "clean, dry" threads, and the old thumb rule is to reduce torque by half when using never-seez. I've heard it said that the newer compounds require no torque modification, but I have yet to verify this. I still reduce by half (and shall continue to do so until I verify otherwise.)
I have verified these modifications experimentally, when I had the opportunity and equipment to do so (and got a good grade on the project anyhow.) Using a lubricating compound not only requires less torque (turning force) to achieve a certain tensile preload (pulling/stretching load) on the screw, but better lubrication also makes for more consistent preloading! So, there are sometimes reasons to do so. Also, doing so can allow you to "extend the range" of a torque wrench, or can save you a goodly amount of work. For instance, the stub shaft nuts on the XJ front axle have a "clean, dry" torque spec of 195 pound-feet. This not only preloads the stub shaft in tension, but preloads the bearings in the unit hub assembly.
By putting never-seez on the threads before I put the nut on, I can now torque it to ~97 pound-feet - far less work, and my torque wrench only goes up to 150 pound-feet anyhow. Does it cause any trouble? I've done this trick on other vehicles as of 15-20 years ago, and they haven't needed a bearing replacement yet. I did it on my XJ 12 years ago, and the bearings are still fine (too little preload on bearings is usually worse than too much.)
My lug nuts are all never-seez'd, and torqued to half, and the wheels aren't warped and haven't fallen off. I've been doing that for 22 years.
Work smarter, not harder...
The "gold" stuff (copper-based) is rated for higher temperatures, I'll typically use it for exhaust.
Permatex is not the only maker of never-seez - they're just the most available. It's not bad, but I also shop at MRO houses, so I have more of a selection available to me...
Nota Bene: The standard for installation preload is for "clean, dry" threads, and the old thumb rule is to reduce torque by half when using never-seez. I've heard it said that the newer compounds require no torque modification, but I have yet to verify this. I still reduce by half (and shall continue to do so until I verify otherwise.)
I have verified these modifications experimentally, when I had the opportunity and equipment to do so (and got a good grade on the project anyhow.) Using a lubricating compound not only requires less torque (turning force) to achieve a certain tensile preload (pulling/stretching load) on the screw, but better lubrication also makes for more consistent preloading! So, there are sometimes reasons to do so. Also, doing so can allow you to "extend the range" of a torque wrench, or can save you a goodly amount of work. For instance, the stub shaft nuts on the XJ front axle have a "clean, dry" torque spec of 195 pound-feet. This not only preloads the stub shaft in tension, but preloads the bearings in the unit hub assembly.
By putting never-seez on the threads before I put the nut on, I can now torque it to ~97 pound-feet - far less work, and my torque wrench only goes up to 150 pound-feet anyhow. Does it cause any trouble? I've done this trick on other vehicles as of 15-20 years ago, and they haven't needed a bearing replacement yet. I did it on my XJ 12 years ago, and the bearings are still fine (too little preload on bearings is usually worse than too much.)
My lug nuts are all never-seez'd, and torqued to half, and the wheels aren't warped and haven't fallen off. I've been doing that for 22 years.
Work smarter, not harder...
07-01-2011, 12:14 AM
#10
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Year: 1997
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Originally Posted by 5-90
The silver stuff (nickel-based) is good for most applications.
The "gold" stuff (copper-based) is rated for higher temperatures, I'll typically use it for exhaust.
Permatex is not the only maker of never-seez - they're just the most available. It's not bad, but I also shop at MRO houses, so I have more of a selection available to me...
Nota Bene: The standard for installation preload is for "clean, dry" threads, and the old thumb rule is to reduce torque by half when using never-seez. I've heard it said that the newer compounds require no torque modification, but I have yet to verify this. I still reduce by half (and shall continue to do so until I verify otherwise.)
I have verified these modifications experimentally, when I had the opportunity and equipment to do so (and got a good grade on the project anyhow.) Using a lubricating compound not only requires less torque (turning force) to achieve a certain tensile preload (pulling/stretching load) on the screw, but better lubrication also makes for more consistent preloading! So, there are sometimes reasons to do so. Also, doing so can allow you to "extend the range" of a torque wrench, or can save you a goodly amount of work. For instance, the stub shaft nuts on the XJ front axle have a "clean, dry" torque spec of 195 pound-feet. This not only preloads the stub shaft in tension, but preloads the bearings in the unit hub assembly.
By putting never-seez on the threads before I put the nut on, I can now torque it to ~97 pound-feet - far less work, and my torque wrench only goes up to 150 pound-feet anyhow. Does it cause any trouble? I've done this trick on other vehicles as of 15-20 years ago, and they haven't needed a bearing replacement yet. I did it on my XJ 12 years ago, and the bearings are still fine (too little preload on bearings is usually worse than too much.)
My lug nuts are all never-seez'd, and torqued to half, and the wheels aren't warped and haven't fallen off. I've been doing that for 22 years.
Work smarter, not harder...
07-01-2011, 01:52 AM
#11
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Year: 1988
Model: Cherokee
Engine: AMC242
Torque Wrench? OH you mean the impact gun! Oh yeah I agree. When using the silver grease on my lugs I only do 1:00 worth of impact gun on each lug instead of my usual 2:00. I'm still going through studs and rotors like crazy though. Maybe I need to put more on. Thoughts?
Lug studs typically use a fine thread (most Jeeps are 1/2"-20 UNC,) which means the thread root has a smaller cross-section and is therefore weaker in shear.
Impact guns are also inconsistent with torque application - you can warp wheels, drums, and rotors using them.
The tyre shop I frequent is specifically instructed each and every time I need them to R&I wheels that no impact guns are to be used - you don't need them to remove my wheels, and you can put them on by hand easily enough. If I catch you using an impact gun on my wheels, I will storm out on the shop floor and swat you upside the head - I've done it before. "HAND TOOLS ONLY" is written on every work order by the manager whenever I go in.
An impact guns has its uses - primarily for removing stuck fasteners. Yes, you can use a torque stick to control the application of torque on lug nuts, but it's easier to just use a proper torque wrench and be done with it. I may use an impact gun to remove a screw or nut - I never use one to install!
Let me guess - you're pulling the threads off of the studs and warping the rotors, right? Sometimes you can crack a rotor using an impact gun, particularly if you use never-seez - but warping them is rather more common. Pulling the threads off of the studs happens whenever someone uses an impact gun on my lugs and doesn't read the work order. Then they have to replace the studs - and I refuse to pay for them - because if you'd followed instructions, you wouldn't have stripped the threads off of the thing. And I expect new lug nuts as well - they're stressed, and the threads are probably deformed now.
07-01-2011, 07:13 AM
#12
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Year: 1995
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Engine: 4.0 L
The silver stuff (nickel-based) is good for most applications.
The "gold" stuff (copper-based) is rated for higher temperatures, I'll typically use it for exhaust.
Permatex is not the only maker of never-seez - they're just the most available. It's not bad, but I also shop at MRO houses, so I have more of a selection available to me...
Nota Bene: The standard for installation preload isb for "clean, dry" threads, and the old thumb rule is to reduce torque by half when usingh never-seez. I've heard it said that the newer compounds require no torque modification, but I have yet to verify this. I still reduce by half (and shall continue to do so until I verify otherwise.)
I have verified these modifications experimentally, when I had the opportunity and equipment to do so (and got a good grade on the project anyhow.) Using a lubricating compound not only requires less torque (turning force) to achieve a certain tensile preload (pulling/stretching load) on the screw, but better lubrication also makes for more consistent preloading! So, there are sometimes reasons to do so. Also, doing so can allow you to "extend the range" of a torque wrench, or can save you a goodly amount of work. For instance, the stub shaft nuts on the XJ front axle have a "clean, dry" torque spec of 195 pound-feet. This not only preloads the stub shaft in tension, but preloads the bearings in the unit hub assembly.
By putting never-seez on the threads before I put the nut on, I can now torque it to ~97 pound-feet - far less work, and my torque wrench only goes up to 150 pound-feet anyhow. Does it cause any trouble? I've done this trick on other vehicles as of 15-20 years ago, and they haven't needed a bearing replacement yet. I did it on my XJ 12 years ago, and the bearings are still fine (too little preload on bearings is usually worse than too much.)
My lug nuts are all never-seez'd, and torqued to half, and the wheels aren't warped and haven't fallen off. I've been doing that for 22 years.
Work smarter, not harder...
The "gold" stuff (copper-based) is rated for higher temperatures, I'll typically use it for exhaust.
Permatex is not the only maker of never-seez - they're just the most available. It's not bad, but I also shop at MRO houses, so I have more of a selection available to me...
Nota Bene: The standard for installation preload isb for "clean, dry" threads, and the old thumb rule is to reduce torque by half when usingh never-seez. I've heard it said that the newer compounds require no torque modification, but I have yet to verify this. I still reduce by half (and shall continue to do so until I verify otherwise.)
I have verified these modifications experimentally, when I had the opportunity and equipment to do so (and got a good grade on the project anyhow.) Using a lubricating compound not only requires less torque (turning force) to achieve a certain tensile preload (pulling/stretching load) on the screw, but better lubrication also makes for more consistent preloading! So, there are sometimes reasons to do so. Also, doing so can allow you to "extend the range" of a torque wrench, or can save you a goodly amount of work. For instance, the stub shaft nuts on the XJ front axle have a "clean, dry" torque spec of 195 pound-feet. This not only preloads the stub shaft in tension, but preloads the bearings in the unit hub assembly.
By putting never-seez on the threads before I put the nut on, I can now torque it to ~97 pound-feet - far less work, and my torque wrench only goes up to 150 pound-feet anyhow. Does it cause any trouble? I've done this trick on other vehicles as of 15-20 years ago, and they haven't needed a bearing replacement yet. I did it on my XJ 12 years ago, and the bearings are still fine (too little preload on bearings is usually worse than too much.)
My lug nuts are all never-seez'd, and torqued to half, and the wheels aren't warped and haven't fallen off. I've been doing that for 22 years.
Work smarter, not harder...
07-01-2011, 09:05 AM
#13
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True, there are TONS of brands out there. You can get a paste silver style or a spray silver style Anti-seize isnt the best when using water and mud in the area. It will eventually end up holding that grit etc from the mud.
07-01-2011, 04:24 PM
#14
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Year: 1988
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So do please bear in mind - if I correct you, I'm not necessarily correcting you. I'm just trying to fill out information now so I don't end up doing it later (since I seem to invariably have to do just that!)
07-01-2011, 11:12 PM
#15
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This thread explains why I restripped my freshly tapped holes on my crossmember. 
I'll have to remember this next time I torque something.
I'll have to remember this next time I torque something.