Picking up a ZJ for parts. Won't start, fuel pump runs constantly, no guages
12-02-2016, 04:52 PM
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Picking up a ZJ for parts. Won't start, fuel pump runs constantly, no guages
So I'm about to buy a '97 4.0 Laredo. It won't start, when the key is turned to the position just before cranking, you can head the fuel pump running constantly. Checking the fuel pressure relief above the engine, there is at least some pressure (didn't measure how much). Some (or all) of the gauges are out. The fuel gauge is definitely out.
I'm guessing there is a short which is messing with the PCM, but I know very little about these things.
The owner said that just before all of this started, the O2 sensor on the cat was ripped out by something on the ground. The wires were torn apart. I'm thinking maybe this is the source of the problems. He had taped them back up, but I didn't take it all apart to make sure it was done right.
Any thoughts on what this might be? He also had the battery cable removed when I arrived, making me think there was a voltage drain somewhere, possible giving more evidence for a short.
I'll be following up the next day or two with a scan tool to get more info.
I'm guessing there is a short which is messing with the PCM, but I know very little about these things.
The owner said that just before all of this started, the O2 sensor on the cat was ripped out by something on the ground. The wires were torn apart. I'm thinking maybe this is the source of the problems. He had taped them back up, but I didn't take it all apart to make sure it was done right.
Any thoughts on what this might be? He also had the battery cable removed when I arrived, making me think there was a voltage drain somewhere, possible giving more evidence for a short.
I'll be following up the next day or two with a scan tool to get more info.
12-04-2016, 04:01 PM
#2
CF Veteran
I would say that buying this not running is a pretty gutsy move. Sounds like multiple problems, I would only be guessing without more info. A factory service manual would help.
12-04-2016, 04:42 PM
#3
Old fart with a wrench
What I find amusing is he said he bought it for parts! Now he wants to get it running! Jeep Fever is like a spider bite, you never see it coming, but you feel it afterwards for sure!
The downstream 02 sensor doesn't do anything but monitor the cat's efficiency, so you can disconnect it to start with, thus eliminating it as a possible short. Pull out the fuel pump relay and turn on the ignition. This will eliminate the relay as a possible short as well. It shouldn't run with the relay removed. The PO may have jumpered the fuel pump relay thinking it wasn't getting fuel to the engine.
Next, find out if you have spark. If you don't, I would suspect the PCM isn't turning on because the gauges aren't active. Check ALL the ground connections, fuses, and the plugs on the PCM.
There are 3 power circuits in a jeep. #1 is the main power from the battery to the starter. #2 is everything that's hot all the time, like headlights, brake lights, horn, hazard lights, interior lights, ignition key supply, and dashboard power outlet. #3 is everything controlled by the ignition key switch.
The way the system works is when you turn the key to run, the PCM becomes active and turns on the gauges and the fuel pump for a short time to charge the fuel rail. It's a TIME interval and has nothing to do with whether there's pressure or not. Then it waits for a CPS signal that tells it you are cranking the engine. When it gets this signal, it turns on the fuel pump relay and the ASD relay. The ASD relay turns on the ignition and injector circuits.
Do some diagnostics and get back to us.
The downstream 02 sensor doesn't do anything but monitor the cat's efficiency, so you can disconnect it to start with, thus eliminating it as a possible short. Pull out the fuel pump relay and turn on the ignition. This will eliminate the relay as a possible short as well. It shouldn't run with the relay removed. The PO may have jumpered the fuel pump relay thinking it wasn't getting fuel to the engine.
Next, find out if you have spark. If you don't, I would suspect the PCM isn't turning on because the gauges aren't active. Check ALL the ground connections, fuses, and the plugs on the PCM.
There are 3 power circuits in a jeep. #1 is the main power from the battery to the starter. #2 is everything that's hot all the time, like headlights, brake lights, horn, hazard lights, interior lights, ignition key supply, and dashboard power outlet. #3 is everything controlled by the ignition key switch.
The way the system works is when you turn the key to run, the PCM becomes active and turns on the gauges and the fuel pump for a short time to charge the fuel rail. It's a TIME interval and has nothing to do with whether there's pressure or not. Then it waits for a CPS signal that tells it you are cranking the engine. When it gets this signal, it turns on the fuel pump relay and the ASD relay. The ASD relay turns on the ignition and injector circuits.
Do some diagnostics and get back to us.
Last edited by dave1123; 12-04-2016 at 05:07 PM.
12-04-2016, 05:26 PM
#4
CF Veteran
Kind of like renting an apartment sight unseen on craigslist, just send the money to this western union account and....
Hey are you sure the ignition coil is off until the engine is cranking?
Hey are you sure the ignition coil is off until the engine is cranking?
12-04-2016, 05:43 PM
#5
Member
Thread Starter
Well it's only $800. Besides not starting and the electrical-taped O2 sensor, it's (superficially) in very good condition.
I'd be taking nearly the entire interior to swap with mine (I like its black compared to my tan) as well as some little things here and there that are in better condition on it. Then probably resell it to whoever can use it at that point. If it never runs, I'll probably resell for enough to make it a good deal. If I do get it going I might even be able to make a bit of a profit. Assuming I don't find it too hard to part with...
On another note, my ZJ's lower transmission oil cooler line popped off at the radiator today. Hoping I didn't damage the transmission at all. Thankfully it's safely parked on base and I don't have to rush to get it going. Won't be able to check out the '97 until Wednesday though - hoping it isn't sold in the meantime.
Will post back with what I find.
*edit*
97grand4.0, I actually bought my house without ever seeing it haha. I was PCSing with my wife in her 9th month and this - as far as pictures could show - was just about the perfect place. I definitely wouldn't recommend doing so for most situations, but we lucked out. Hopefully that luck holds here.
I'd be taking nearly the entire interior to swap with mine (I like its black compared to my tan) as well as some little things here and there that are in better condition on it. Then probably resell it to whoever can use it at that point. If it never runs, I'll probably resell for enough to make it a good deal. If I do get it going I might even be able to make a bit of a profit. Assuming I don't find it too hard to part with...
On another note, my ZJ's lower transmission oil cooler line popped off at the radiator today. Hoping I didn't damage the transmission at all. Thankfully it's safely parked on base and I don't have to rush to get it going. Won't be able to check out the '97 until Wednesday though - hoping it isn't sold in the meantime.
Will post back with what I find.
*edit*
97grand4.0, I actually bought my house without ever seeing it haha. I was PCSing with my wife in her 9th month and this - as far as pictures could show - was just about the perfect place. I definitely wouldn't recommend doing so for most situations, but we lucked out. Hopefully that luck holds here.
Last edited by Hatsuwr; 12-04-2016 at 05:46 PM.